ariotofmyown Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Uptherams said: As much as I think the likes of Google (Alphabet) need to be broken up soon because it's bad for the market and innovation having such mega corporations... They offered their assistance. We would have had better tracking, modelling, etc. Instead the government blew £12bn on this track and trace already. All of this nonesense with Dido and Excel. I just can't stop laughing. It doesn't matter if it's the Conservatives or Labour. The public sector is full of incompetence and they waste money. They don't know how to spend it. It's the same with the NHS. Just keep piling in money. It doesn't solve anything. You encourage innovation in the private sector. It happens in many sectors and industries. FinTech for example are doing things the banks never could or would have. To the point where in less than 10 years time, the most valuable financial sector companies won't be the likes of NatWest and Santander, but some company that doesn't even exist yet and will have about 20 employees for their first year or two. This is why I've always supported a basic income. People are better at spending money than government. Just more and more Covid incompetence by the day. Some of that makes sense, but you do realise that big banks are in the private sector too right? Rather "public services are bad for innovation", in my experience, it's big organisations (public or private) that are bad for innovation. Once you get big and are making money/providing a reasonable service, it's just about maintaining the status quo and most the innovators leave. No easy answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 hours ago, rammieib said: Anyone know what this £12Bn was actually spent on? How do you even spend that much money in 6 months? Even 20,000 Tracers having been paid £30k (which is a gross exaggeration consdiering they were on £12 an hour and have only been working 4 months!) is only £600m. They had to buy an Office 365 licence so they could use Excel to store (some of) the data..... that’s not cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Uptherams said: As much as I think the likes of Google (Alphabet) need to be broken up soon because it's bad for the market and innovation having such mega corporations... They offered their assistance. We would have had better tracking, modelling, etc. Instead the government blew £12bn on this track and trace already. All of this nonesense with Dido and Excel. I just can't stop laughing. It doesn't matter if it's the Conservatives or Labour. The public sector is full of incompetence and they waste money. They don't know how to spend it. It's the same with the NHS. Just keep piling in money. It doesn't solve anything. You encourage innovation in the private sector. It happens in many sectors and industries. FinTech for example are doing things the banks never could or would have. To the point where in less than 10 years time, the most valuable financial sector companies won't be the likes of NatWest and Santander, but some company that doesn't even exist yet and will have about 20 employees for their first year or two. This is why I've always supported a basic income. People are better at spending money than government. Just more and more Covid incompetence by the day. You do realise that the vast majority of money wasted has been on private sector involvement? Literally the only things that have been done correctly since the start of the outbreak have been achieved by the under funded, overstetched public sector already in place. For instance, compare the test and trace performance of the private sector to the local health authorities who've taken on the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 26 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Some of that makes sense, but you do realise that big banks are in the private sector too right? Rather "public services are bad for innovation", in my experience, it's big organisations (public or private) that are bad for innovation. Once you get big and are making money/providing a reasonable service, it's just about maintaining the status quo and most the innovators leave. No easy answers. They all are, as I highlighted and so too is the stays quo. The fact that the NHS has adapted to this poorly doesn't cover it in glory. One variable and they can't provide a sufficient health service. The logistics should have been handed over to the armed forces. There wouldn't be millions of missed cancer appointments for example. Covid wards would not exist inside current hospital buildings. They'd have required people who had a hospital appointment to take a test a day or two before their appointment, isolate and if they were negative, to then attend that appointment. There also wouldn't be idiots like Dido, Whitty, Vallance or Ferguson ducking up constantly. This whole endeavour in bigger government and more government control has been a disaster. Yet I'm seeing people completely misunderstand this and think capitalism is the problem. Their proposed alternative involves more government control and size. The health sector in the UK needs radical change. It starts with not outsourcing the NHS, but simply supporting the private sector. Then one year, in potentially the near future, the NHS will report it's under budget for once, and or they have a higher nurse to patient ratio and waiting times are down, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djfred84 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 47 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Some of that makes sense, but you do realise that big banks are in the private sector too right? Rather "public services are bad for innovation", in my experience, it's big organisations (public or private) that are bad for innovation. Once you get big and are making money/providing a reasonable service, it's just about maintaining the status quo and most the innovators leave. No easy answers. Tories have been chipping away at public services for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, djfred84 said: Tories have been chipping away at public services for decades. They have, particularly over the last 6 years. It was Labour that took PCS to court to change redundancy rules to allow then to do so however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 30 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said: You do realise that the vast majority of money wasted has been on private sector involvement? Literally the only things that have been done correctly since the start of the outbreak have been achieved by the under funded, overstetched public sector already in place. For instance, compare the test and trace performance of the private sector to the local health authorities who've taken on the job. You are intentionally missing the point. The Government decides who is and isn't involved. With no private sector involvement, the thing is a mess. With private sector involvement, authorised and overseen by the government and public sector bodies leads to it being a mess, as in this case. The government merely had to say to the private sector we need X,Y,Z with a brief. The private sector then provides something sufficient. Instead what we get is idiots handing over billions to other idiots who have absolutely no shred of evidence to show they can even meet the brief. Some of the people who are being assigned serious duties are utterly out of their depth. This Dido Harding could be replaced within a week, if the Government actually put out a job description for the role. Yet it she does get replaced, it's almost certainly by some other useless idiot that gets selected in some bizzare behind the scenes form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Please stay on topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 What have we become ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, TexasRam said: What have we become ? What have we become when people tweet out videos of funerals to make political points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 22 minutes ago, Uptherams said: You are intentionally missing the point. The Government decides who is and isn't involved. With no private sector involvement, the thing is a mess. With private sector involvement, authorised and overseen by the government and public sector bodies leads to it being a mess, as in this case. The government merely had to say to the private sector we need X,Y,Z with a brief. The private sector then provides something sufficient. Instead what we get is idiots handing over billions to other idiots who have absolutely no shred of evidence to show they can even meet the brief. Some of the people who are being assigned serious duties are utterly out of their depth. This Dido Harding could be replaced within a week, if the Government actually put out a job description for the role. Yet it she does get replaced, it's almost certainly by some other useless idiot that gets selected in some bizzare behind the scenes form. Honestly I wasn't intentionally missing your point, a simple misunderstanding was all. I agree totally that Baroness Harding hasn't shown anything like the required qualities throughout her career to be placed in charge, and the same goes for a lot of political appointments to such roles. Probably to give the government an arm's length scapegoat if things go tits up! It's not open or transparent, the same can be said for the all the contracts awarded recently post Covid, the contact for quick testing to a company that previously specialised in DNA tests to decide your diet (despite their being no scientific basis for that approach), for instance. My point is that from what I've read, at a local level the public sector has performed admirably, but I'd agree with you totally at a national level they've been found wanting in the main, mostly because of the leadership. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 See, I didn’t take it that way, I just took it as a sad indictment of the times. Putting social distancing before compassion at one of life’s most somber events. (In reply to riot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Pearl Ram said: See, I didn’t take it that way, I just took it as a sad indictment of the times. Putting social distancing before compassion at one of life’s most somber events. (In reply to riot) Sometimes you need to look at the source. Personally I wouldn't believe a single thing that Darren Grimes tweets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said: Sometimes you need to look at the source. Personally I wouldn't believe a single thing that Darren Grimes tweets. Oh, I’ve never heard of him, I just watched the video with no sound I must be honest and reacted to what I witnessed, which made me a little bit sad, hence my post. But thanks for the heads up. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 36 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said: Sometimes you need to look at the source. Personally I wouldn't believe a single thing that Darren Grimes tweets. Never heard of him either, just saw it and thought how sad and look at what we are doing to our society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, TexasRam said: Never heard of him either, just saw it and thought how sad and look at what we are doing to our society Never heard of the hero of... Er, sorry, going off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Gaspode said: They had to buy an Office 365 licence so they could use Excel to store (some of) the data..... that’s not cheap I just read this. XLS format caused the errors? Jesus wept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Never heard of the hero of... Er, sorry, going off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Pearl Ram said: Oh, I’ve never heard of him, I just watched the video with no sound I must be honest and reacted to what I witnessed, which made me a little bit sad, hence my post. But thanks for the heads up. ? Yeah, I've seen some of his stuff before and he is awful. Looks like it was a funeral of his relative. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 7 hours ago, Uptherams said: There won't be any Uni students left to test positive, come the 50,000 stage will there? I'm going go go ahead and predict an almighty drop off in 2 weeks time. You'd hope the new controls begin to have a measurable effect by then wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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