Midfield Balance

[dcfcfan1]

Get that right, and sort our two good CBs in summer and we are almost there

 

What would be your midfield 4 (assuming we play the diamond 4-4-2 formation)?

 

Beilik (Bird) DM- Rooney- Knight (Sibley) CM- Holmes (Lawrence- no one will want him tbh) (AM) ?

 

Assuming Huddlestone leaves end of this season of course, I could be wrong though

[Ramarena]

TBH it’s come on leaps and bounds since earlier in the season, the breakthrough of knight and bird have done a lot for the balance bringing energy, determination and some youthful determination.

Still plenty to work on but the options are much better and Shinnie and Beilik still to return!

[SKRam]

10 hours ago, Ramarena said:

TBH it’s come on leaps and bounds since earlier in the season, the breakthrough of knight and bird have done a lot for the balance bringing energy, determination and some youthful determination.

Still plenty to work on but the options are much better and Shinnie and Beilik still to return!

Any news on Shinnies fitness? 

[ThePrisoner]

1 hour ago, SKRam said:

Any news on Shinnies fitness? 

Cocu said before the weekend he was training in the next couple weeks. 

 

[Jourdan]

I think the problem we are facing now is that our three major signings this year - Bielik, Rooney and Shinnie - and three of our breakthrough players - Bird, Knight and Sibley - all play in midfield.

Add Huddlestone, Evans, Holmes and Lawrence to that list, and you have ten players competing for three/four positions depending on the system we adopt.

The emergence of the young players has been a big positive but I can also see how it will create a headache for Cocu moving forward. We have no obvious system and no obvious pecking order in the midfield to incorporate them into.

Knight has been our best player in recent weeks. Bird not far behind. How will they feel being dropped for Bielik, Huddlestone or another player in the mix?

It’s difficult to piece it together as a fan, how difficult must it be for someone like Cocu who is an avid tinkerer?

I can see the front 6 positions being an issue for some time, especially with Rooney playing every game by default.

[gfs1ram]

22 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I think the problem we are facing now is that our three major signings this year - Bielik, Rooney and Shinnie - and three of our breakthrough players - Bird, Knight and Sibley - all play in midfield.

Add Huddlestone, Evans, Holmes and Lawrence to that list, and you have ten players competing for three/four positions depending on the system we adopt.

The emergence of the young players has been a big positive but I can also see how it will create a headache for Cocu moving forward. We have no obvious system and no obvious pecking order in the midfield to incorporate them into.

Knight has been our best player in recent weeks. Bird not far behind. How will they feel being dropped for Bielik, Huddlestone or another player in the mix?

It’s difficult to piece it together as a fan, how difficult must it be for someone like Cocu who is an avid tinkerer?

I can see the front 6 positions being an issue for some time, especially with Rooney playing every game by default.

Good points made above.

Now add Kadioglu to the mix for £10m !!!!!    Not a priority in my book. Would prefer to see us develop Knight and Sibley.

[Sparkle]

Getting mason Bennett back may make a considerable difference if played out wide - pace and power - full backs hate it and he actually makes chances for others 

[rynny]

It would be good if the midfield at the start of next season was (in Cocu's preferred 4-2-3-1) 

Bielik Bird

Knight Rooney Sibley

[SaintRam]

50 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I think the problem we are facing now is that our three major signings this year - Bielik, Rooney and Shinnie - and three of our breakthrough players - Bird, Knight and Sibley - all play in midfield.

Add Huddlestone, Evans, Holmes and Lawrence to that list, and you have ten players competing for three/four positions depending on the system we adopt.

The emergence of the young players has been a big positive but I can also see how it will create a headache for Cocu moving forward. We have no obvious system and no obvious pecking order in the midfield to incorporate them into.

Knight has been our best player in recent weeks. Bird not far behind. How will they feel being dropped for Bielik, Huddlestone or another player in the mix?

It’s difficult to piece it together as a fan, how difficult must it be for someone like Cocu who is an avid tinkerer?

I can see the front 6 positions being an issue for some time, especially with Rooney playing every game by default.

You're completely right. Following the emergence of the youth, a couple of players have to be moved on between now and the start of next season.

I could see Huddlestone's contract not being extended (I think it ends this summer?), even though Cocu is a fan and perhaps one/both of Evans/Lawrence being moved on?

[SaintRam]

21 minutes ago, rynny said:

It would be good if the midfield at the start of next season was (in Cocu's preferred 4-2-3-1) 

Bielik Bird

Knight Rooney Sibley

I think he might be liable to move to a formation that utilises actual wingers if he's ever in a position to have a competent one/two to pick - which makes the problem even worse! ? 

[dcfcfan1]

I can't see Rooney starting every game next season 

 

Looked leggy vs Boro 

[Jourdan]

23 minutes ago, dcfcfan1 said:

I can't see Rooney starting every game next season 

 

Looked leggy vs Boro 

I had thought the same.

But then he was made captain and this would suggest he will start every game if he is relatively fit and able to, much like Keogh was almost ever present.

You would also expect it to be the case given the sponsorship deal with 32Red.

Are they paying a % of his wages to put out cones and blow whistles? They will want him to be front and centre too, surely?

Not a fan of the move, to be honest.

[Srg]

31 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

You're completely right. Following the emergence of the youth, a couple of players have to be moved on between now and the start of next season.

I could see Huddlestone's contract not being extended (I think it ends this summer?), even though Cocu is a fan and perhaps one/both of Evans/Lawrence being moved on?

It's a log jam at present, but you're right. Gives much more flexibility on what we can do in the summer and cull a lot of the high earning over-the-hill players.

[Jourdan]

1 hour ago, SaintRam said:

You're completely right. Following the emergence of the youth, a couple of players have to be moved on between now and the start of next season.

I could see Huddlestone's contract not being extended (I think it ends this summer?), even though Cocu is a fan and perhaps one/both of Evans/Lawrence being moved on?

That’s the thing - there are so many question marks.

For me, I feel Cocu needs to press forward with a defined style of play and a defined system and it will make recruitment itself easier too.

I don’t think this idea of being able to switch personnel and switch systems based on the opposition is really necessary for this level.

Everything will become easier if we have some defined plans. The fewer options he has, the less likely he is to tinker. The less likely he is to tinker, the more likely we are to build some sense of identity and consistency.

I look at Leeds and Bielsa. He established everything he wanted pretty quickly. So much so that you can now predict their XI or at least their set up pretty easily. It doesn’t make it any easier to stop, mind you.

Get one system working and it can take you a long way.

[SaintRam]

4 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

That’s the thing - there are so many question marks.

For me, I feel Cocu needs to press forward with a defined style of play and a defined system and it will make recruitment itself easier too.

I don’t think this idea of being able to switch personnel and switch systems based on the opposition is really necessary for this level.

Everything will become easier if we have some defined plans. The fewer options he has, the less likely he is to tinker. The less likely he is to tinker, the more likely we are to build some sense of identity and consistency.

I look at Leeds and Bielsa. He established everything he wanted pretty quickly. So much so that you can now predict their XI or at least their set up pretty easily now. It doesn’t make it any easier to stop.

Get one system working and it can take you a long way.

To that point, over the last 3 league games the only changes have been enforced.

Wisdom played two games in for the injured Bogle who then returned to the lineup for game 3.
Bielik was sent off in game 1 and was replaced in games 2 and 3 by Rooney.
Lawrence played game 3 in place of the injured Marriott.

They're the only changes across the three games.

Essentially it was our current "reserves" who beat Palace.

[Srg]

5 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

That’s the thing - there are so many question marks.

For me, I feel Cocu needs to press forward with a defined style of play and a defined system and it will make recruitment itself easier too.

I don’t think this idea of being able to switch personnel and switch systems based on the opposition is really necessary for this level.

Everything will become easier if we have some defined plans. The fewer options he has, the less likely he is to tinker. The less likely he is to tinker, the more likely we are to build some sense of identity and consistency.

I look at Leeds and Bielsa. He established everything he wanted pretty quickly. So much so that you can now predict their XI or at least their set up pretty easily. It doesn’t make it any easier to stop, mind you.

Get one system working and it can take you a long way.

History tells us what type of football Cocu plays, and we absolutely don't have close to the personnel he would need to produce it. What we are seeing at the moment is Cocu adapting to what he has and trying to make it work - which in fairness to him, was something he didn't look like he would try to do a couple of months ago. We should know a hell of a lot more next season when he's had a full summer following a full season of evaluation, providing he gets the funding and all the necessaries to maneuver how he'd want.

[Sparkle]

Play 5 of them ! 

[Jourdan]

1 hour ago, Srg said:

History tells us what type of football Cocu plays, and we absolutely don't have close to the personnel he would need to produce it. What we are seeing at the moment is Cocu adapting to what he has and trying to make it work - which in fairness to him, was something he didn't look like he would try to do a couple of months ago. We should know a hell of a lot more next season when he's had a full summer following a full season of evaluation, providing he gets the funding and all the necessaries to maneuver how he'd want.

Out of interest, how many players do you think we need to play 'the Cocu way'?

6-7 first team players, perhaps? Maybe more? Based on our track record, would you back us to make 6-7 good signings in the next two windows?

Look at our business so far this season - Dowell and Paterson have already been returned to sender, Hamer and Clarke likely won't be retained beyond May unless they produce a level of performance far above what we've seen, Rooney is 18-24 months from retirement, and our only genuine long term signing Bielik is married to the sidelines.

If he is counting on having carte blanche to rip up the squad and start again, given the track record of our recruitment staff and the nature of our finances, it's going to take much longer than this upcoming summer to build the team in his image.

I think Cocu has to swallow his pride, work with what he has and try to get the best out of what he has. Anything else is a luxury that we have gone past the point of being able to afford.

 

[Srg]

3 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Out of interest, how many players do you think we need to play 'the Cocu way'?

6-7 first team players, perhaps? Maybe more? Based on our track record, would you back us to make 6-7 good signings in the next two windows?

Look at our business so far this season - Dowell and Paterson have already been returned to sender, Hamer and Clarke likely won't be retained beyond May unless they produce a level of performance far above what we've seen, Rooney is 18-24 months from retirement, and our only genuine long term signing Bielik is married to the sidelines.

If he is counting on having carte blanche to rip up the squad and start again, given the track record of our recruitment staff and the nature of our finances, it's going to take much longer than this upcoming summer to build the team in his image.

I think Cocu has to swallow his pride, work with what he has and try to get the best out of what he has. Anything else is a luxury that we have gone past the point of being able to afford.

 

He is certainly going to have to compromise, you're right. It's not feasible, as much as we'd want to, to sign that many players in that amount of time. But if we're thinking realistically, and some of these will be loans given the current climate in the transfer market, you're looking at a goalkeeper, two centre backs, a striker and two attacking midfielders/wingers depending on how he decides to play. Could even need a right back if Bogle does go in the summer, which wouldn't shock me - along with losing Huddlestone and a few others too. It's probably going to be the biggest summer we've had in a while in terms of what it means for the future. 

[Jourdan]

12 minutes ago, Srg said:

He is certainly going to have to compromise, you're right. It's not feasible, as much as we'd want to, to sign that many players in that amount of time. But if we're thinking realistically, and some of these will be loans given the current climate in the transfer market, you're looking at a goalkeeper, two centre backs, a striker and two attacking midfielders/wingers depending on how he decides to play. Could even need a right back if Bogle does go in the summer, which wouldn't shock me - along with losing Huddlestone and a few others too. It's probably going to be the biggest summer we've had in a while in terms of what it means for the future. 

If Cocu thinks the same and we require six players for the first XI alone, then we really need to sort out our recruitment department, or else we could be experiencing this century's Great Depression.