Rev Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 To balance things out, my firm have put us on 4hr split shifts, provided hand sanitizers at every workstation, are installing a sneeze screen between those workers who can't maintain a decent distance when we return to normal, and have paid us our normal wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 19 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: I believe he is well within his rights to ask for the precautions that his form are taking and if he thinks they are inadequate to say so and that he cannot return to work on that basis. They would not be able to touch him legally but obviously the conversations might be a bit tetchy, so you have to have some cojones to go that route. Its a shame some bosses are so unenlightened they seem to put staff welfare so far down their priority list.... It's difficult. He's 63 , lives on his own so no other income coming in . He's also on six monthly contracts. Half the blokes there are agency staff so feel more obliged than him to turn up . I think as a nation of workers over the last twenty years sick pay hoops in the workplace have got that draconian it's often easier just to turn up. That really has too change now when it comes to assuming someone has a cold for example but I'm not sure it will based on what I've seen . Many employers are burying there head in the sand . My mate was asked by his manager the other day to list his annual leave requirements because as ' as soon as this over people will be desperate to get on the plane and get away' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: It's difficult. He's 63 , lives on his own so no other income coming in . He's also on six monthly contracts. Half the blokes there are agency staff so feel more obliged than him to turn up . I think as a nation of workers over the last twenty years sick pay hoops in the workplace have got that draconian it's often easier just to turn up. That really has too change now when it comes to assuming someone has a cold for example but I'm not sure it will based on what I've seen . Many employers are burying there head in the sand . My mate was asked by his manager the other day to list his annual leave requirements because as ' as soon as this over people will be desperate to get on the plane and get away' I agree businesses have got worse when it comes to sickness. you have a day or two off and you are grilled about it, docked pay and so on. it encourages sickness spreading through the workplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 27 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: It's difficult. He's 63 , lives on his own so no other income coming in . He's also on six monthly contracts. Half the blokes there are agency staff so feel more obliged than him to turn up . I think as a nation of workers over the last twenty years sick pay hoops in the workplace have got that draconian it's often easier just to turn up. That really has too change now when it comes to assuming someone has a cold for example but I'm not sure it will based on what I've seen . Many employers are burying there head in the sand . My mate was asked by his manager the other day to list his annual leave requirements because as ' as soon as this over people will be desperate to get on the plane and get away' It's very sad to see how workers treatment seems to have deteriorated as our legal "rights" are supposed to have been increased through things like the EU social chapter. I can see, with that context, his dilemma. A call to citizens advice? once upon a time a union would have been all over that but i assume his work is non-unionised like the majority of us...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 49 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: Its a shame some bosses are so unenlightened they seem to put staff welfare so far down their priority list.... That's the system we live by unfortunately. It'd be nice to think that it might change after this, and we start to put staff welfare first. People might realise that labour is actually the precious commodity Don't bank on it though ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Just now, SchtivePesley said: That's the system we live by unfortunately. It'd be nice to think that it might change after this, and we start to put staff welfare first. People might realise that labour is actually the precious commodity Don't bank on it though ? I am fortunate to work for a relatively enlightened CEO - albeit just to the end of this year. If the market is efficient, then employers such as @Gee SCREAMER !!'s old mans should be out of business as they cannot attract staff. Market failure again unfortunately..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: Ican see, with that context, his dilemma. A call to citizens advice? once upon a time a union would have been all over that but i assume his work is non-unionised like the majority of us...... Citizens Advice have had their funding cut too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Just now, SchtivePesley said: That's the system we live by unfortunately. It'd be nice to think that it might change after this, and we start to put staff welfare first. People might realise that labour is actually the precious commodity Don't bank on it though ? a contract of employment is 2 way, as is a job interview, as you suggest many employers don't see it this way and feel the lowly employees should just be grateful for having a job. how many CEO's consider themselves the most important person in the business ? how many are? I think there will be a big difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: It's very sad to see how workers treatment seems to have deteriorated as our legal "rights" are supposed to have been increased through things like the EU social chapter. I can see, with that context, his dilemma. A call to citizens advice? once upon a time a union would have been all over that but i assume his work is non-unionised like the majority of us...... The EU is neither the cause nor the solution to this. The history of attacks on the standards of working people comes from the government you elect, not the EU. Sorry, but we had a chance to vote to improve how we treat workers but we chose to get Brexit done instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 27 minutes ago, GboroRam said: The EU is neither the cause nor the solution to this. The history of attacks on the standards of working people comes from the government you elect, not the EU. Sorry, but we had a chance to vote to improve how we treat workers but we chose to get Brexit done instead. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/europe-pays-high-price-for-outsourcing-vital-health-industries-to-china-1.4227360 Most if not all EU Countries are at fault, Outsourcing work to cheaper labour, Where was the protection for those EU workers who lost their jobs? A quote from Macron. Sovereignty France and Europe have learned their lesson, Macron insisted. “The day after will not resemble the days before. We must rebuild our national and European sovereignty.” “Nobody was ready, anywhere in the world,” says an adviser to Macron. In the short term, every country is maximising whatever national production capacity it can salvage, and scrambling to buy from China. Once the crisis passes, “the EU must protect strategic sectors, bring back certain industries, increase our capacity to manufacture and stock in the fields we neglected for decades, such as medicine”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, TramRam said: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/europe-pays-high-price-for-outsourcing-vital-health-industries-to-china-1.4227360 Most if not all EU Countries are at fault, Outsourcing work to cheaper labour, Where was the protection for those EU workers who lost their jobs? A quote from Macron. Sovereignty France and Europe have learned their lesson, Macron insisted. “The day after will not resemble the days before. We must rebuild our national and European sovereignty.” “Nobody was ready, anywhere in the world,” says an adviser to Macron. In the short term, every country is maximising whatever national production capacity it can salvage, and scrambling to buy from China. Once the crisis passes, “the EU must protect strategic sectors, bring back certain industries, increase our capacity to manufacture and stock in the fields we neglected for decades, such as medicine”. But it will. The race to maximise profit goes on in or out of the EU. If it can be done cheaper in China, or in some sweat shop in a poor country, those businesses that utilise it will have an advantage over those that don't. Half the reason we've left the EU is to allow us to find better deals on the world stage, and one advantage will be that we're not tied to EU rules and tariffs. Drop the standards, drop the prices. Cash is king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Half the reason we've left the EU is to allow us to find better deals on the world stage, and one advantage will be that we're not tied to EU rules and tariffs. Drop the standards, drop the prices. Cash is king. The other half of the reason is to allow the profits from those deals to be spirited off to various tax havens under British jurisdiction. Public spending is now back again in a very big way, and the EU countries will be very glad of the European Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, maxjam said: Its probably not 120k, but then again its also probably not 0 https://fullfact.org/health/austerity-120000-unnecessary-deaths/ That makes a valid point about cuts and lack of front line services, which is the case, irrespective of coved 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 5 hours ago, GboroRam said: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/all-400-000-gowns-flown-from-turkey-for-nhs-fail-uk-standards/ar-BB13HHg5?ocid=msedgntp All 400,000 gowns flown from Turkey for NHS fail UK standards "Last month, amid dire warnings of shortages of personal protective equipment (PPE) for health workers, ministers publicised the imminent arrival from Turkey of a fleet of RAF cargo planes bringing in a “very significant” shipment of PPE for the NHS. More than a fortnight later, it has emerged that every one of the 400,000 protective gowns that arrived has been impounded for not to conform to UK standards." If only we could join some sort of club, whereby any country that we want to buy goods from have to meet strict quality standards. Maybe all the countries in the club could work together to manage the quality from the producing countries. It might make everything safer and less likely to be rejected. Oh well, if it existed I'm sure we'd try to be part of it. It's obviously just a pipe dream. I see what you did there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 4 hours ago, Eddie said: So a life sentence at Her Majesty's Pleasure it is then, for the greater good. No , it’s for your own good , my guess is you will not be forced to keep yourself safe but rather decide yourself how far you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Eddie said: It's going to be a big party, isn't it, and the last three months will be erased from the memory. Until July, when the deaths start to climb again to intolerable levels, and the lockdowns are re-implemented and the usual defenders of the faith will bleat "How did this happen? Nobody could possibly foreseen this, but it would have been far worse if Corbyn had won, so there's that". I don’t think lockdown will be back even when the deaths do increase. it’s GAME OVER for that strategy. soon all politicians and all their advisers will be able to knob away quite happily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Paul71 said: I am in possession of a shielding letter, and feel that if it means the country can get back to work, and i have to stay at home then so be it. I am lucky though and can work from home, and would fully expect my employer to allow me to do so until such time its considered safe (to not allow me to do so when i can do my job 100% from home would not be adhering to 'reasonable adjustments' under the equality act). I guess the issue is going to be those that work and cannot reasonably work from home and are considered vulnerable. What will the finance support be for those, I am guessing many don't work due to age or illness anyway so maybe its not as big an issue as I think. I suppose my ability to work from home also lessens the impact of not being able to go out as I will be busy anyway most of the time. So i understand others who may feel like its a bit of a prison sentence if all they have is Phil and Holly to keep them occupied. Tough call. All the population on lockdown for 6 months, or 1.5 million for 12 months......As Spock would say, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If we are a decent society then support for the vulnerable in every way poss to make their lives more bearable not only financially is a must and those that can get back to more normality can and should do the utmost to lessen catching and passing it on ,but we do have to start finding a way back to normality for the vast majority that can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 1 hour ago, GboroRam said: The EU is neither the cause nor the solution to this. The history of attacks on the standards of working people comes from the government you elect, not the EU. Sorry, but we had a chance to vote to improve how we treat workers but we chose to get Brexit done instead. I rather think it is down to the neo-liberal consensus towards globalisation, which has lead as you say, to outsourcing/offshoring and market forces driving down employment in the UK to shave a few quid off costs. Governments have not consciously promoted this, but it comes about as a consequence of tacit acceptance of this as a "norm". But then i'm probably word-smithing and simply agreeing with you in different words...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, RamNut said: I don’t think lockdown will be back even when the deaths do increase. it’s GAME OVER for that strategy. soon all politicians and all their advisers will be able to knob away quite happily. "Bringing you Covid".... has a certain ring to it....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 1 hour ago, A Ram for All Seasons said: The other half of the reason is to allow the profits from those deals to be spirited off to various tax havens under British jurisdiction. Because this clearly wasnt allowed to happen when we were members of the EU was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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