King Kevin Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I don't know where the line is really, but it's certainly before the acts of physical aggression seen after the game. I throw the odd banker sign every now and then if the home fans send things our way. I don't view that as being linked to any genuinely angry confrontations, as I, and I imagine the majority of others in the away end, see it as banter rather than hatred. I don't take responsibility for those who take it too far, who, I might add, tend to be a lot older than me. You might be right in saying that I'll mellow a bit as I grow older, but I still think I don't go anywhere near taking it too far now. I also fear that you've picked up the wrong impression of my alcohol, as some of the livelier stories, most of which come from when I was still learning my limits, naturally stick in the mind. As I've said before, you can barely even tell that I've had a drink nine games out of ten. Good reply young man ,bit different in a football crowd than say in a car with a bit of road rage for instance .A good guide is if you start the old fist shaking / banker signs on a one to one basis etc you have to be prepared to go all the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I don't know where the line is really, but it's certainly before the acts of physical aggression seen after the game. I throw the odd banker sign every now and then if the home fans send things our way. I don't view that as being linked to any genuinely angry confrontations, as I, and I imagine the majority of others in the away end, see it as banter rather than hatred. I don't take responsibility for those who take it too far, who, I might add, tend to be a lot older than me. You might be right in saying that I'll mellow a bit as I grow older, but I still think I don't go anywhere near taking it too far now. I also fear that you've picked up the wrong impression of my alcohol, as some of the livelier stories, most of which come from when I was still learning my limits, naturally stick in the mind. As I've said before, you can barely even tell that I've had a drink nine games out of ten. This part isnt breaking news mind is it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I don't know where the line is really, but it's certainly before the acts of physical aggression seen after the game. I throw the odd banker sign every now and then if the home fans send things our way. I don't view that as being linked to any genuinely angry confrontations, as I, and I imagine the majority of others in the away end, see it as banter rather than hatred. I don't take responsibility for those who take it too far, who, I might add, tend to be a lot older than me. You might be right in saying that I'll mellow a bit as I grow older, but I still think I don't go anywhere near taking it too far now. I also fear that you've picked up the wrong impression of my alcohol, as some of the livelier stories, most of which come from when I was still learning my limits, naturally stick in the mind. As I've said before, you can barely even tell that I've had a drink nine games out of ten. Yep , therein lies the problem ,,, throwing winker signs at people is not acceptable and if you do to someone and they turn round and give you a smack in the mouth then fair play you’ve asked for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Ok yes i can buy that, although fans should be able to sit wherever they want but anyway, does the rule not apply the other way round? Is it not ok for a home fan to direct hand gestures towards away fans? Correct me if im wrong but away fans dont get much choice where they sit. You make a fair point. Ultimately, I think it's something that we just won't agree on. I've said before that kids are always going to be exposed to swearing at some point. I don't particularly like it when people scream at opposition fans, but I really don't think there's a huge issue with giving a banker sign. Away games have always been for a bit of a rowdier crowd, and it's for parents to decide if they think they're suitable places for kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Just now, DarkFruitsRam7 said: You make a fair point. Ultimately, I think it's something that we just won't agree on. I've said before that kids are always going to be exposed to swearing at some point. I don't particularly like it when people scream at opposition fans, but I really don't think there's a huge issue with giving a banker sign. Away games have always been for a bit of a rowdier crowd, and it's for parents to decide if they think they're suitable places for kids. Yep you are right, its quite Sad though that it has to be a factor i deciding if to go or not. Read back on this thread and Angie confirmed she wont go to forest again because of the level of abuse and intimidation. That just not right in a civilised world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Archied said: Nope , very far from the truth , I’ve even had twits trying to start a fight with me outside Goodison when I was with my 8 year old daughter , most of these clowns target people least likely to be in a position to give it back , I disagree with this massively. Clearly, your experience is personal to you, and I absolutely respect that you're angry about it. However, as a general rule, I'd argue that those who go looking for trouble are far more likely to find it than those who don't. I was walking calmly back to the station with the Derby convoy yesterday and I didn't receive the slightest bit of attention from Forest fans, unlike the Derby fans who were giving it large. I reiterate, I'm not questioning your story whatsoever, but I just think that it's probably the exception rather than the rule. 7 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Banter is one thing but often the line is crossed, yet some just put the line in a different place, for example the 'wheres your chairman chant', many would happily put it down as acceptable banter where as i would describe any fan joining in with that sort of thing as a total moron. I completely condemn that chant. I'm even getting to the point now where I stay silent during the Collymore chant, as I find it distasteful. I also think that screaming expletives as opposition fans is wrong and on a completely different level to the odd hand gesture. 2 minutes ago, Archied said: Yep , therein lies the problem ,,, throwing winker signs at people is not acceptable and if you do to someone and they turn round and give you a smack in the mouth then fair play you’ve asked for it I disagree with the "not acceptable" part (for reasons previously stated), but I agree with the "you've asked for it" part. Whilst I think it would be a little unreasonable for someone to respond to a hand gesture with a physical attack, I certainly wouldn't complain. If you give, you have to be prepared to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: You make a fair point. Ultimately, I think it's something that we just won't agree on. I've said before that kids are always going to be exposed to swearing at some point. I don't particularly like it when people scream at opposition fans, but I really don't think there's a huge issue with giving a banker sign. Away games have always been for a bit of a rowdier crowd, and it's for parents to decide if they think they're suitable places for kids. Good on you lad ,, you do what you like and if that makes games a place where people can’t take their kids and women and decent people don’t feel safe duck them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Yep you are right, its quite Sad though that it has to be a factor i deciding if to go or not. Read back on this thread and Angie confirmed she wont go to forest again because of the level of abuse and intimidation. That just not right in a civilised world. I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, it's obviously a shame that anyone, let alone someone I respect greatly, feels that they can't go to a game. On the other hand, I wonder whether it really is a terrible thing that home ends are fundamentally different to away ends in nature. Is there a general right to attend a football game? Is it not like there being PG rated films for the family and 18-rated movies for those who want something a little livelier? Clearly, there's a greater sense of belonging to a football club than there is to any individual film, but it's something that this discussion has made me ponder. I genuinely don't know where I stand on the issue to be honest, and I see it all as interesting discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I disagree with this massively. Clearly, your experience is personal to you, and I absolutely respect that you're angry about it. However, as a general rule, I'd argue that those who go looking for trouble are far more likely to find it than those who don't. I was walking calmly back to the station with the Derby convoy yesterday and I didn't receive the slightest bit of attention from Forest fans, unlike the Derby fans who were giving it large. I reiterate, I'm not questioning your story whatsoever, but I just think that it's probably the exception rather than the rule. I completely condemn that chant. I'm even getting to the point now where I stay silent during the Collymore chant, as I find it distasteful. I also think that screaming expletives as opposition fans is wrong and on a completely different level to the odd hand gesture. I disagree with the "not acceptable" part (for reasons previously stated), but I agree with the "you've asked for it" part. Whilst I think it would be a little unreasonable for someone to respond to a hand gesture with a physical attack, I certainly wouldn't complain. If you give, you have to be prepared to take. And the poor innocent that are caught up in the whole situation you generated by your actions ? I take back my earlier gut reaction on thinking you were a decent lad at heart but being a bit silly trying to be a plastic hooly, perhaps your a drunken hooly just pretending to be nice on here ,,, who’s to know ? What I do know is you really need to Gtfu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Archied said: Good on you lad ,, you do what you like and if that makes games a place where people can’t take their kids and women and decent people don’t feel safe duck them Again, I feel the need to stress the limits of my behaviour. The only things I direct at opposition fans are the odd hand gesture and the general 'banter' that follows a goal ('Who are ya', 'You're not singing anymore', etc). I really don't see why that would make anyone feel justifiably unsafe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby blood Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Archied said: And the poor innocent that are caught up in the whole situation you generated by your actions ? I take back my earlier gut reaction on thinking you were a decent lad at heart but being a bit silly trying to be a plastic hooly, perhaps your a drunken hooly just pretending to be nice on here ,,, who’s to know ? What I do know is you really need to Gtfu Wow that's a bit strong, but your point of view so fair enough, I for one think dark fruits ram, is a normal level headed young man who loves watching and supporting his team he is deffo not a hooligan, and at his age a few beers and supporting his team in the right way is not against the law, nice to see young men at matches and not playing video games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Archied said: And the poor innocent that are caught up in the whole situation you generated by your actions ? I take back my earlier gut reaction on thinking you were a decent lad at heart but being a bit silly trying to be a plastic hooly, perhaps your a drunken hooly just pretending to be nice on here ,,, who’s to know ? What I do know is you really need to Gtfu What situation have I generated? And if you think that throwing a banker sign at a middle aged bloke giving it large in the home end makes me a bad person (as you seem to be implying), then I think you and I have different priorities on what makes a nice person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 20 hours ago, rammieib said: Surprised this hasn’t been bought up yet (that I’ve seen). As we were leaving the ground today, the police formed a barricade to stop all DCFC fans leaving the car park. In essence they used the corridor between two buses about 60 feet wide. The police told us ‘it’s for your safety’ but could not tell us anything else. They didn’t know why they had been told to hold us. It was a decision of the match commander and the officer I was chatting to had now moved the conversation to ‘above my pay grade’. (I don’t get angry so all convos from myself were pleasant). As you can imagine it was now getting quite raucous with up to 1500 Derby fans in the car park behind this police line. This probably lasted 7-8 minutes and I’m not 100% sure what the fans were chanting but it was in the region that we are about to charge. Sure enough a tidal wave of fans now just pushed forward and the coppers had to retreat. It was certainly scary and thankfully I managed to move to the side as I had no intention of being anywhere near the front. Im not sure if any actual violence broke out but I did see a bit further on that Forest fans had now been held from their exit and as DCFC fans were walking past, scuffles between police and fans broke out. Ive been to Forest games around ten times or so now and I’ve never once seen the police hold us and never once seen any issues on exiting. (That said I make sure I avoid areas). Today was nothing short of abysmal police efforts and if that match commander thought holding 1500 fans behind a police barricade with one useless copper of a Mic giving no information at all then the whole thing was going to end badly. I am hopeful no one got hurt. If one person had fallen over on the charge it would have been awful. Whoever the match commander is needs some serious explaining as he put a number of people’s safety (including coppers) at risk today. It’s been like that for years now.. They hold us in the car park, let the home crowd go a little then walk us to the station. I’ve seen worse than yesterday with the pushing. It’s always quite intense and a lot of goading. It should not have been a surprise to anyone who has attended before. It’s simple really, just wait at the back, be patient and then leave by any way you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 The fat old pensioner spitting down on us from the stand above just before half time was a shocker, what an uncouth Bamford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby blood Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, philmycocu said: The fat old pensioner spitting down on us from the stand above just before half time was a shocker, what an uncouth Bamford You would think Kenny Burns would know better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 25 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, it's obviously a shame that anyone, let alone someone I respect greatly, feels that they can't go to a game. On the other hand, I wonder whether it really is a terrible thing that home ends are fundamentally different to away ends in nature. Is there a general right to attend a football game? Is it not like there being PG rated films for the family and 18-rated movies for those who want something a little livelier? Clearly, there's a greater sense of belonging to a football club than there is to any individual film, but it's something that this discussion has made me ponder. I genuinely don't know where I stand on the issue to be honest, and I see it all as interesting discussion. Absolutely yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: What situation have I generated? And if you think that throwing a banker sign at a middle aged bloke giving it large in the home end makes me a bad person (as you seem to be implying), then I think you and I have different priorities on what makes a nice person. The hypothetical situation we were throwing out there in terms of you giving the W sign and someone responding with a smack in the mouth ,because in the real world that’s what happens , if you behave like a Pratt then people behave in kind very often and it escalates in that hypothetical situation poor sods get caught up in what started by throwing w signs , anyway that’s my last response to your posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 24 minutes ago, Derby blood said: Wow that's a bit strong, but your point of view so fair enough, I for one think dark fruits ram, is a normal level headed young man who loves watching and supporting his team he is deffo not a hooligan, and at his age a few beers and supporting his team in the right way is not against the law, nice to see young men at matches and not playing video games. There’s bits I take on board but decent people should act and adjust to who and what’s around them rather than turn round and say women and kids should know better than go away games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 56 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: You might be right in saying that I'll mellow a bit as I grow older, but I still think I don't go anywhere near taking it too far now. I also fear that you've picked up the wrong impression of my alcohol, as some of the livelier stories, most of which come from when I was still learning my limits, naturally stick in the mind. As I've said before, you can barely even tell that I've had a drink nine games out of ten. Seen as we’ve met you plus I think I’m a fairly good judge of character perhaps I should give you a character reference(for what it’s worth). Firstly I think people might be surprised if they met you. A very quiet polite and inoffensive young man and a very happy,smiley non confrontational drinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 24 minutes ago, philmycocu said: The fat old pensioner spitting down on us from the stand above just before half time was a shocker, what an uncouth Bamford Spitting is a disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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