Police handling after the game was shambolic

[DCFC Ram]

CCTV inside and outside grounds, in city centres, mobile phone cameras and police cameras. A high chance of being filmed doing and saying whatever.

Several good reasons for checking what could and couldn't be considered as breaking the law before doing so. 

And a decent understanding of the impact on self and family of being found guilty of any of the following: public disorder, violent disorder, using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour or disorderly behaviour, use or threat of violence, causing harassment, alarm or distress, attempt, conspiracy or incitement to commit / aiding and abetting the crime... and the list goes on.

A football banning order as a starter. The possibility of losing your job, home and living. Impact on travel. Becoming 'known to the police '. etc. 

 

 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

33 minutes ago, Archied said:

Yep , chanting and banter can be funny ,   shouting and swearing at and giving w signs to opposing fans is not banter it’s another level beyond and it’s only engaged in by those up for a fight and looking to be hoolys or the plastics who hang round the fringes pretending to be football hoolys  , any of us who been going since the seventies recognise both

That's completely wrong because I'm neither.

What's your opinion on singing songs with expletives at the opposition? For example, 'Poo on the bar stewards below'.

[Mucker1884]

Isn't the W sign classed as an offensive gesture... and illegal?  Genuine question.

 

During the seasons '77 to '81, I genuinely doubt DCFC had a "gobbier" away fan than me.  Literally lost count of the number of "scuffles" that arguably started with my mouth!  Luton, Bristol City, Villa, Red & Blue Scousers, Gooners, Hammers, Cambridge, Stokies, Red & Blue Mancs, Geordies, Smoggies, and Wolves to name merely but a few.  I "upset" them all!  Every single one of them was ripe for goading!
And through those years, the most serious injury I received was a very slight scratch to the nose, caused by a fan who's aim wasn't up to much, but neither was his fingernail clipping skills!  That was the only physical "injury" I received at a game, from any oppo fan... not for their lack of trying!  
How I got through that infamous era alive, let alone scar-free, amazes me to this day!  
I hasten to add, the "physical injuries" I caused were even less.  Gobby yes, but always a lover over being a fighter!

After a few years "out of the loop" (The majority of the '80's), I was no better when returning to The Ossie End, and still "not much better" when taking to my seat in the SE corner... second-to-back row, with only the netting between my ST seat* and the nearest visiting supporter in the South Stand.  Less aggressive by then maybe, but no less vociferous!  And of course, every word was accompanied by a hand gesture or two!
(*I say "seat", but I don't recall ever sitting, given the position).

For instance, it was me who started the "We are Derby, Super Derby, Super Rams" chant that lasted well over 30 minutes continuously, at The BBG (V Spurs maybe?) during that period.  It was me that started the "We shall not be moved" from the Carrow Road rafters (literally!), as we said a long goodbye to the top division ("Long", as it took them an hour to finally get us to leave the ground!)  It was me that started the long and slow "COME ON YOU RAMS" chant at Grimsby (presumably 80/81, after relegation?)... just as my voice "Officially broke", and 2,000+ fellow Rams fans pointed and laughed at me as one... before continuing the song in my ensuing embarrassed silence, of course!  Almost 30 years later, it was also me that started the Idiakez chant... after nearly bursting a lung, taking a full 5 minutes to finally get it ringing around the ground!... after he skied his peno in the play-off semi.
And they are the "highlights".  The "low-lights" are gobby, yobbish, confrontational, and cowardly.  They were rich in industrial language, and idle threat.  They led to violence between others, even if I somehow managed to avoid it myself!  They led to people running scared.  I suspect they led to folk "Never to return"!

It was only when it came to cashing in a "freebie" under 12 season ticket to drag my grandson along, did I realise just how much the SE corner wasn't a suitable environment in which to drag him through... and just how inappropriate my behaviour at football matches over the decades had been!

That's how long it took me to recognise "The error of my ways".  That's how long it took me to realise just how lucky I had been "to get away with it", for so many times, over such a long period!.  That's how long it took me to realise that maybe, I should be more embarrassed than proud of my DCFC supporting habits!

 

Having only made the short trip to yesterday's opponents the once... (probably about 15 years ago now?  Pure guess!)... I vowed there and then never to return.  We had the full width back then, but still had the baying mob above us.  It was toxic inside and out, before and after.  Despite my previous experiences, and the general threat of all out war at every single game in my first few seasons, I never made such a vow for any other ground!  A truly horrible experience!

To @DarkFruitsRam7, I would say, Cut out the goading, and keep your hands in your pockets... oh... maybe not, in your case, you filthy swine... Just cut out the hand gestures.  Tribal my ar5e!

To @angieram... and everyone else who has ever left a football ground vowing never to return, for the simple but unacceptable reason that they "felt threatened"... I offer my deepest and sincerest apologies for my own individual behaviour at football matches over the past 4+ decades.

It really isn't big, and truly isn't clever.  And despite the "threat" being much less in today's game, it clearly hasn't been eradicated... and the sooner it is, and the sooner every single one of us can go to any game, in any stadium, without fear, the better.

 

……………………………………………………………….

May the fallen rest in peace.
May those that return, have the fortune to live in peace.

[Archied]

4 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

That's completely wrong because I'm neither.

What's your opinion on singing songs with expletives at the opposition? For example, 'Poo on the bar stewards below'.

Nope , you have been open in stating you shout and swear at and make w signs at opposing fans at a highly charged local Derby match ( and others) that is famed for violence between the fans so I’m afraid you fall into one of the two categories stated , as you stated that you walked quietly through the forest fans after the game with no problems my guess is the latter of the two , 

you do realise that you could be rightly arrested and be in large life changing trouble for doing what you describe as acceptable behaviour 

im pretty stunned that someone who is supposedly in uni studying for a career in law can be so unable to work out what he is actually saying and defending on a forum , 

astounding

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, Archied said:

Sorry got to question your view on why the odd hand gesture is ok ,, where’s the line ? Things escalate ,who’s to blame ,the one who starts it or the one who finishes it ? Now don’t get me wrong I’ve been an idiot at games as a kid but as you grow up you hopefully learn to act better , you strike me as a nice enough lad at heart but you’re views on drinking to excess and this kind of thing are very naive 

Seems like you are a bit of a hypocrite. Was ok for you to be an idiot at games when you was young, but now you've had your time and your fun, everyone should behave how you think is fit.

Apologies if I've misinterpreted.

I take my kids sometimes and dont particularly like the behaviour of some of our fans but I cant take any moral high ground knowing that I was the same at their age.

I tell my kids what to expect at football matches and that it is not acceptable to repeat the behaviour. Pretty sure when they are older that they will be likely to want to have their fun too though.

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I take my kids sometimes and dont particularly like the behaviour of some of our fans but I cant take any moral high ground knowing that I was the same at their age.

I tell my kids what to expect at football matches and that it is not acceptable to repeat the behaviour. Pretty sure when they are older that they will be likely to want to have their fun too though.

Perhaps they can tell you don't really think it's a bad thing? When does it end if it's continually condoned?

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Perhaps they can tell you don't really think it's a bad thing? When does it end if it's continually condoned?

I'm not bothered about it ending. It was fun when I was young so why would I want to deprive my kids of the same experience?

Like one poster said, your behaviour changes with age and I'd never behave how I did 20 years ago, especially with kids around me, doesnt mean I'm now in a position to preach to others how the can or cannot behave. I'm going to a football match and know what to expect.

[Archied]

25 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Seems like you are a bit of a hypocrite. Was ok for you to be an idiot at games when you was young, but now you've had your time and your fun, everyone should behave how you think is fit.

Apologies if I've misinterpreted.

I take my kids sometimes and dont particularly like the behaviour of some of our fans but I cant take any moral high ground knowing that I was the same at their age.

I tell my kids what to expect at football matches and that it is not acceptable to repeat the behaviour. Pretty sure when they are older that they will be likely to want to have their fun too though.

Really ,,, ?..? 
 
no hypocrisy there mate ,,behave how you want,  just call it what it is though and don’t pretend , yep we got involved as kids and we got in bother for it ,the old bill and courts eventually came down hard and there’s a price ,

there’s no moral high ground just not got a lot of time for bull crap, if you go games to have a piss up and a fight then have the balls to  tell it like. It is or if your a plastic that gets a buzz out of pretending to be one of the bad boys then say so 

[rammieib]

4 hours ago, I Bought the Tee Shirt said:

Some very interesting views on behavior here, From the mid 70s to mid 80s I was in the thick of it(not glorifying it)just what was part and parcel of our lives, Today is a far cry from those days, When it was a mostly a male driven sport.

In todays game or yesteryear it doesn't start when the ref blows his whistle, It's when you get up in the Morning, The buzz starts and the juices flow, You meet your friends in the boozer, You take your child to Mcdonalds or a squash with friends and their Children, Or you might want to meet your Mum or Dad at the ground, The chatter will inevitably be about DCFC and their failings or their triumphs.

In alot of circumstances it's your upbringing or peer pressure or an injection of testoterone that we do what we do, It doesn't make it right, This is about your team, This season i've seen Derby fans going hammer and tongue at each other over a comment concerning the game, Standing up or different opinion, The following week it's all hand shakes and banter.

I understand people not liking hand gestures on here or a flipent comment, Just be aware of your surroundings, The Woman that called one poster on here a "C" could well have had a big Husband to back her up who might have taken exception to someone challenging his Wife.

My advice is...just let it ride over your head, It can be hard not to give as good as you get, Be the better person and smile.

One last thing...Football is a very emotive game that can bring the worst out of Angels.

When she called me the C word, I actually laughed at her. I dont think she was expecting that response but if she can't accept someone challenging her about her pathetic actions, maybe she also shouldn't be doing it as well?

My only other point here...I dont think going to a football match is an excuse for your behaviour to ever become more than jovial. If that said woman came to an interview with me on Monday I wouldn't even undertake the interview. If someone cannot control their own actions at a game and lower themselves to giving the W sign, I wouldn't want them working for me. Appreciate others may have different opinions.

[Rev]

The fact we wouldn't even be having this conversation around acceptable behaviour at the match even 10 years ago, nevermind 20 or more shows how far we've progressed.

It'll be like the opera soon enough.

 

[angieram]

1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said:

Isn't the W sign classed as an offensive gesture... and illegal?  Genuine question.

 

During the seasons '77 to '81, I genuinely doubt DCFC had a "gobbier" away fan than me.  Literally lost count of the number of "scuffles" that arguably started with my mouth!  Luton, Bristol City, Villa, Red & Blue Scousers, Gooners, Hammers, Cambridge, Stokies, Red & Blue Mancs, Geordies, Smoggies, and Wolves to name merely but a few.  I "upset" them all!  Every single one of them was ripe for goading!
And through those years, the most serious injury I received was a very slight scratch to the nose, caused by a fan who's aim wasn't up to much, but neither was his fingernail clipping skills!  That was the only physical "injury" I received at a game, from any oppo fan... not for their lack of trying!  
How I got through that infamous era alive, let alone scar-free, amazes me to this day!  
I hasten to add, the "physical injuries" I caused were even less.  Gobby yes, but always a lover over being a fighter!

After a few years "out of the loop" (The majority of the '80's), I was no better when returning to The Ossie End, and still "not much better" when taking to my seat in the SE corner... second-to-back row, with only the netting between my ST seat* and the nearest visiting supporter in the South Stand.  Less aggressive by then maybe, but no less vociferous!  And of course, every word was accompanied by a hand gesture or two!
(*I say "seat", but I don't recall ever sitting, given the position).

For instance, it was me who started the "We are Derby, Super Derby, Super Rams" chant that lasted well over 30 minutes continuously, at The BBG (V Spurs maybe?) during that period.  It was me that started the "We shall not be moved" from the Carrow Road rafters (literally!), as we said a long goodbye to the top division ("Long", as it took them an hour to finally get us to leave the ground!)  It was me that started the long and slow "COME ON YOU RAMS" chant at Grimsby (presumably 80/81, after relegation?)... just as my voice "Officially broke", and 2,000+ fellow Rams fans pointed and laughed at me as one... before continuing the song in my ensuing embarrassed silence, of course!  Almost 30 years later, it was also me that started the Idiakez chant... after nearly bursting a lung, taking a full 5 minutes to finally get it ringing around the ground!... after he skied his peno in the play-off semi.
And they are the "highlights".  The "low-lights" are gobby, yobbish, confrontational, and cowardly.  They were rich in industrial language, and idle threat.  They led to violence between others, even if I somehow managed to avoid it myself!  They led to people running scared.  I suspect they led to folk "Never to return"!

It was only when it came to cashing in a "freebie" under 12 season ticket to drag my grandson along, did I realise just how much the SE corner wasn't a suitable environment in which to drag him through... and just how inappropriate my behaviour at football matches over the decades had been!

That's how long it took me to recognise "The error of my ways".  That's how long it took me to realise just how lucky I had been "to get away with it", for so many times, over such a long period!.  That's how long it took me to realise that maybe, I should be more embarrassed than proud of my DCFC supporting habits!

 

Having only made the short trip to yesterday's opponents the once... (probably about 15 years ago now?  Pure guess!)... I vowed there and then never to return.  We had the full width back then, but still had the baying mob above us.  It was toxic inside and out, before and after.  Despite my previous experiences, and the general threat of all out war at every single game in my first few seasons, I never made such a vow for any other ground!  A truly horrible experience!

To @DarkFruitsRam7, I would say, Cut out the goading, and keep your hands in your pockets... oh... maybe not, in your case, you filthy swine... Just cut out the hand gestures.  Tribal my ar5e!

To @angieram... and everyone else who has ever left a football ground vowing never to return, for the simple but unacceptable reason that they "felt threatened"... I offer my deepest and sincerest apologies for my own individual behaviour at football matches over the past 4+ decades.

It really isn't big, and truly isn't clever.  And despite the "threat" being much less in today's game, it clearly hasn't been eradicated... and the sooner it is, and the sooner every single one of us can go to any game, in any stadium, without fear, the better.

 

……………………………………………………………….

May the fallen rest in peace.
May those that return, have the fortune to live in peace.

I was probably at some of those matches in the 70s, to be fair! I remember some great away days but also some very scary ones.

The final straw for me was when I saw a Norwich fan run up from behind and drop-kick an older woman in the back as we were all being escorted away from their ground. Not sure what year exactly maybe around 81 or 82 but I didn't go to another away match for over 30 years.

I realise that I am probably older now than that Derby supporter was then. What had she done wrong other than follow her club? And who had riled up that Norwich supporter enough earlier in the day to make him think that doing that was acceptable? We'll never know.

However, as you do get older you realise if you don't do things now, you never will, which is why I started attending away games again. Things are much improved, of course and I generally enjoy them but there are a few grounds I don't like visiting and now two that I won't be returning to - Millwall and Forest.

It's not a long list to date.

[Josh]

10 hours ago, Archied said:

Nope , you have been open in stating you shout and swear at and make w signs at opposing fans at a highly charged local Derby match ( and others) that is famed for violence between the fans so I’m afraid you fall into one of the two categories stated , as you stated that you walked quietly through the forest fans after the game with no problems my guess is the latter of the two , 

you do realise that you could be rightly arrested and be in large life changing trouble for doing what you describe as acceptable behaviour 

im pretty stunned that someone who is supposedly in uni studying for a career in law can be so unable to work out what he is actually saying and defending on a forum , 

astounding

Are you still going on? Stop pretending you’ve never gave opposition fans the V.

[Bubbles]

Police wasn't an issue when we was playing on a monday evening... lol.

[Bubbles]

We're never going to change the atmosphere of a football match to make it more politically correct etc.

We have family stands for a reason, so that people can go with their kids away from all the folks giving it the big un to the away supporters. 

Regarding our away support of course we are going to be hostile in a way, we're going to be encouraging the home fans to bite back at us, we're going to be giving it the big un as it creates a tense atmosphere and it makes the whole away experience more enjoyable.

I don't agree with all the hooligans going out looking for a scrap making everyone else feel uncomfortable tho. In my opinion its fine giving the opposition a few hand signs and a bit of verbal but theres creating a hostile atmosphere and then creating a violent one, we should know where to draw the line.

 

This is just my two cents and everyone has a different opinion.

[ossieram]

I'm sorry but anybody going away with Derby to Forest expecting it to be a nice experience is very naive.

Whenever I've gone there, I've expected trouble and know it's going to be a volatile atmosphere and would never take anybody with me that I know couldn't handle the situation.

My brother asked me to take my nephew to the cup game where we came back and won 3-2 and it is the only time I have ever been on the official fans coach to forest (and the last) because I knew there was a chance we could be caught up in trouble.

I believe it's everybodies right to attend any game they wish, but people should be aware of the occasion and heed warnings from others before deciding whether or not to attend certain games.

[Archied]

3 hours ago, Josh said:

Are you still going on? Stop pretending you’ve never gave opposition fans the V.

Can’t deny I’ve been in a few scrapes but giving it big spuds behind the police   And segregation never quite interested me and in my experience those that did it were first on their toes when it kicked off but hey whatever floats your boat

[TramRam]

When games are televised you'll often hear the commontator apologise for the industrial language heard on TV.

Also anyone remember when we played Sunderland a good few years back, Pretty sure it was a game under the 3 amigos, When some 5000-6000 mackems were there, A very thin line if at all any Police or stewards there and only a slip of seat covering seperating both sets.

Fans were pulled out on a regular basis, A friend of mine was arrested and received a 3 year ban for swearing/gesticulating after an object was thrown at him from the away side, All on CCTV and shown in court, He was seen shaking his fist at them, The ban was rescinded some 2 years after appealing to DCFC and the Police Chief.

He's as honest as the days are long, He was convinced it was a case of the Police getting their arrest numbers up so intelligence funding wasn't pulled.