Police handling after the game was shambolic

[DarkFruitsRam7]

23 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

But the Police should know how crowds react, they don't just stand around. The Police have supposedly been trained in dealing with these situations. It must have been very frightening for some.

As I've said, the police probably didn't help. But this isn't a chicken or egg situation. If the fans involved weren't hyper-aggressive Bamfords (I don't mind a bit of goading, but I'm talking about a genuine desire to fight here), then there would be no issue whatsoever.

[TramRam]

31 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

But the Police should know how crowds react, they don't just stand around. The Police have supposedly been trained in dealing with these situations. It must have been very frightening for some.

Football supporters for decades have been cannon fodder for the police, If this was a climate change protest then nothing would have happened, Over those years home and away i've seen old, Young and infirm pushed, Jostled, Hit, Abused and threatened with arrest just from either stepping off a pavement or challenging an officer.

We the supporter haven't helped the situation, Alot of us do not like the authority the police believe they have when it comes to football policing, There's a microcosm of differing attitudes by each police officer, But we all know from past years there's those that just love to show their authority by being as aggressive as they wish.

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Mick Brolly said:

Simple just buy an away membership.

Oh I thought you'd have priority for people who have been to lots of away games.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, I Bought the Tee Shirt said:

Football supporters for decades have been cannon fodder for the police. ... Over those years home and away i've seen old, Young and infirm pushed, Jostled, Hit, Abused and threatened with arrest just from either stepping off a pavement or challenging an officer.

We the supporter haven't helped the situation, Alot of us do not like the authority the police believe they have when it comes to football policing, There's a microcosm of differing attitudes by each police officer, But we all know from past years there's those that just love to show their authority by being as aggressive as they wish.

I agree, I wasn't lauding Police authority I was putting the 'blame' squarely at their door - it's their job to get crowd policing right. But it's usually done, where football is concerned, to the detriment of many to contain the few. 

[WystonRam]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Oh I thought you'd have priority for people who have been to lots of away games.

Yes we do, for this fixture it was tiered by membership, number of away games attended and then down to ST holders and also away games attended. It did not make general sale, but plenty of people probably got tickets from friends who did not want to go, players tickets, sponsors etc...there were two people in front of me yesterday i have never seen ever at an away game, and one of them spent the entire first half looking ip at Forest fans and play ad almost no attention to the game. Did not return for the second half. 

[Gritstone Ram]

I needed to go out towards Trent Bridge not over Ladybay Bridge. A steward asked me where I wanted to go and I told him and he let me through. Quite funny really because there were half a dozen gumps behind these stewards goading the Derby fans leaving the car park. They shut up when I walked through and started again when I had passed.

i’m not Sure what a youth with pink boxers on had done but he was cuffed in the car park with a bloody nose.

[rammieib]

It’s weird they think everyone goes by train - maybe 700-800? I was parked on the embankment so once the initial surge had gone, I sneaked off right towards the McDonalds.

As much as an individuals actions should not encourage bad behaviour, when there is a large group a different set of actions should be taken. Don’t incite, manage the crowd etc The Notts police, starting with the match commander failed badly.

As for behaviour of fans in a ground, anyone who decides to volley abuse at someone else because they support another team is pathetic. I was walking down the isle to leave, and some woman in front of me (30-40 Years of age) was more interesting in looking up at the Forest fans giving them the W sign. I told her to grow up and move on as she was now blocking the gangway. Her first response “it’s a football match”, my response ‘Yes and your acting pathetic, please keep moving’ and her response was just to call me the C word.

Sadly, that’s the level of person that quite a large majority of people who go to matches (of all teams) are. @angieram I’m sorry for your experiences yesterday, I wish more fans were like you.

[Josh]

42 minutes ago, rammieib said:

It’s weird they think everyone goes by train - maybe 700-800? I was parked on the embankment so once the initial surge had gone, I sneaked off right towards the McDonalds.

As much as an individuals actions should not encourage bad behaviour, when there is a large group a different set of actions should be taken. Don’t incite, manage the crowd etc The Notts police, starting with the match commander failed badly.

As for behaviour of fans in a ground, anyone who decides to volley abuse at someone else because they support another team is pathetic. I was walking down the isle to leave, and some woman in front of me (30-40 Years of age) was more interesting in looking up at the Forest fans giving them the W sign. I told her to grow up and move on as she was now blocking the gangway. Her first response “it’s a football match”, my response ‘Yes and your acting pathetic, please keep moving’ and her response was just to call me the C word.

Sadly, that’s the level of person that quite a large majority of people who go to matches (of all teams) are. @angieram I’m sorry for your experiences yesterday, I wish more fans were like you.

Get a life mate, it’s called rivalry. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

45 minutes ago, rammieib said:

I was walking down the isle to leave, and some woman in front of me (30-40 Years of age) was more interesting in looking up at the Forest fans giving them the W sign. I told her to grow up and move on as she was now blocking the gangway. Her first response “it’s a football match”, my response ‘Yes and your acting pathetic, please keep moving’ and her response was just to call me the C word.

I'll say this with two qualifiers:

1) Her response to you was completely out of order.

2) Focusing on the opposition fans to the point of making the game a sideshow is a bit ridiculous.

But, there's nothing wrong with the odd hand gesture to the opposition fans IMO. It's part of the theatre. There's not much better than giving the home fans some after your team score. Leeds away tends to be a highlight for that.

[Sith Happens]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

Get a life mate, it’s called rivalry. 

So out of interest where would you draw the line as what is and is not acceptable?

If at the return match some forest fans start giving my 81 yo dad the W sign is that acceptable as rivalry?

[Sith Happens]

2 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I'll say this with two qualifiers:

1) Her response to you was completely out of order.

2) Focusing on the opposition fans to the point of making the game a sideshow is a bit ridiculous.

But, there's nothing wrong with the odd hand gesture to the opposition fans IMO. It's part of the theatre. There's not much better than giving the home fans some after your team score. Leeds away tends to be a highlight for that.

You mean the home fans that contain young children, families and elderly people?

[Archied]

6 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I'll say this with two qualifiers:

1) Her response to you was completely out of order.

2) Focusing on the opposition fans to the point of making the game a sideshow is a bit ridiculous.

But, there's nothing wrong with the odd hand gesture to the opposition fans IMO. It's part of the theatre. There's not much better than giving the home fans some after your team score. Leeds away tends to be a highlight for that.

Sorry got to question your view on why the odd hand gesture is ok ,, where’s the line ? Things escalate ,who’s to blame ,the one who starts it or the one who finishes it ? Now don’t get me wrong I’ve been an idiot at games as a kid but as you grow up you hopefully learn to act better , you strike me as a nice enough lad at heart but you’re views on drinking to excess and this kind of thing are very naive 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

9 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

You mean the home fans that contain young children, families and elderly people?

It's patently obvious that the section right next to the away end is not the place for those liable to being offended by a hand gesture. There are tens of thousands of other seats available.

[Mick Brolly]

2 hours ago, Van Gritters said:

I needed to go out towards Trent Bridge not over Ladybay Bridge. A steward asked me where I wanted to go and I told him and he let me through. Quite funny really because there were half a dozen gumps behind these stewards goading the Derby fans leaving the car park. They shut up when I walked through and started again when I had passed.

i’m not Sure what a youth with pink boxers on had done but he was cuffed in the car park with a bloody nose.

Pink boxers deserved arresting.

[Sith Happens]

5 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

It's patently obvious that the section right next to the away end is not the place for those liable to being offended by a hand gesture. There are tens of thousands of other seats available.

Ok yes i can buy that, although fans should be able to sit wherever they want but anyway, does the rule not apply the other way round? Is it not ok for a home fan to direct hand gestures towards away fans? Correct me if im wrong but away fans dont get much choice where they sit.

[Josh]

17 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

So out of interest where would you draw the line as what is and is not acceptable?

If at the return match some forest fans start giving my 81 yo dad the W sign is that acceptable as rivalry?

I’d say with confidence that hand gestures are not aimed at anyone particular. More so just the fans as a whole, unless a certain person sticks out who’s been giving it large.

 

Me personally, would just give as good as I get. I wouldn’t ever just randomly start swearing at kids or the elderly, or anyone for that matter. ?

[Archied]

Just now, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

It's patently obvious that the section right next to the away end is not the place for those liable to being offended by a hand gesture. There are tens of thousands of other seats available.

So you think you get to choose exactly where you want at big games that tickets don’t even reach general sale ? I’ve sat at away games with my daughter in the only seats I could get and had to put up with twits making hand gestures and spitting bile ,,, you really need to take a long hard look at what you think is acceptable behaviour because luckily people on here get to see beyond that and can see you ain’t such a bad lad but you are walking a very fine line in terms of getting yourself into real self damaging trouble that will mess you up given where you appear to want to go life and career wise , ignore if you choose but it’s good advise from one who knows

[DarkFruitsRam7]

1 minute ago, Archied said:

Sorry got to question your view on why the odd hand gesture is ok ,, where’s the line ? Things escalate ,who’s to blame ,the one who starts it or the one who finishes it ? Now don’t get me wrong I’ve been an idiot at games as a kid but as you grow up you hopefully learn to act better , you strike me as a nice enough lad at heart but you’re views on drinking to excess and this kind of thing are very naive 

I don't know where the line is really, but it's certainly before the acts of physical aggression seen after the game. I throw the odd banker sign every now and then if the home fans send things our way. I don't view that as being linked to any genuinely angry confrontations, as I, and I imagine the majority of others in the away end, see it as banter rather than hatred. I don't take responsibility for those who take it too far, who, I might add, tend to be a lot older than me.

You might be right in saying that I'll mellow a bit as I grow older, but I still think I don't go anywhere near taking it too far now. I also fear that you've picked up the wrong impression of my alcohol, as some of the livelier stories, most of which come from when I was still learning my limits, naturally stick in the mind. As I've said before, you can barely even tell that I've had a drink nine games out of ten.

[Archied]

2 minutes ago, Josh said:

I’d say with confidence that hand gestures are not aimed at anyone particular. More so just the fans as a whole, unless a certain person sticks out who’s been giving it large.

 

Me personally, would just give as good as I get. I wouldn’t ever just randomly start swearing at kids or the elderly, or anyone for that matter. ?

Nope , very far from the truth , I’ve even had twits trying to start a fight with me outside Goodison when I was with my 8 year old daughter , most of these clowns target people least likely to be in a position to give it back , 

[Sith Happens]

1 minute ago, Josh said:

I’d say with confidence that hand gestures are not aimed at anyone particular. More so just the fans as a whole, unless a certain person sticks out who’s been giving it large.

 

Me personally, would just give as good as I get. I wouldn’t ever just randomly start swearing at kids or the elderly, or anyone for that matter. ?

Yep is a discussion that there are no winners. Personally I find the behavior of some fans who does this sort of thing moronic, but that is probably why rather than go to away games i'll watch on TV when I can.

Banter is one thing but often the line is crossed, yet some just put the line in a different place, for example the 'wheres your chairman chant', many would happily put it down as acceptable banter where as i would describe any fan joining in with that sort of thing as a total moron.