The Politics Thread 2019

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

5 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Or suspicious, or rancorous, or myopic. There are any number of character traits that might lead one to conclude that Poles having more to spend is a bad thing.

Of course Poland has more to spend. Poles are able to spend it on goods and services from net contributors to the EU.

Hold on.  We had a post earlier advising Poland hasn't got cash to spend, that's why we need to provide more.  Perhaps take your argument up weith them . Can't have it both ways.  I'm not Stevie Wonder, Columbo or a pint of Pale Ale either. 

[GboroRam]

1 minute ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Hold on.  We had a post earlier advising Poland hasn't got cash to spend, that's why we need to provide more.  Perhaps take your argument up weith them . Can't have it both ways.  I'm not Stevie Wonder, Columbo or a pint of Pale Ale either. 

If you don't have enough money to go to the shop, but I offer to pay your rent - do you have money to go to the shop?

If Poland doesn't have enough money to pay for contributions to pensions, and the EU pays money so they can improve their infrastructure...you get the idea.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

If you don't have enough money to go to the shop, but I offer to pay your rent - do you have money to go to the shop?

If Poland doesn't have enough money to pay for contributions to pensions, and the EU pays money so they can improve their infrastructure...you get the idea.

If I don't have enough money to pay my rent. I wouldn't take cash of someone to pay it then pull a wad of tenners out my arse and say ' cheers chump- i'm off to do some shopping ..... get the absurdity.

[AndyinLiverpool]

9 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

If I don't have enough money to pay my rent. I wouldn't take cash of someone to pay it then pull a wad of tenners out my arse and say ' cheers chump- i'm off to do some shopping ..... get the absurdity.

An economy with more money moving about is more dynamic. It gets spent on food, computers, toys etc; it gets invested in companies, creating jobs elsewhere. In your analogy, ask where the goods that the person buys come from, who benefits from their purchase etc.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

An economy with more money moving about is more dynamic. It gets spent on food, computers, toys etc; it gets invested in companies, creating jobs elsewhere. In your analogy, ask where the goods that the person buys come from, who benefits from their purchase etc.

It isn't my analogy. Once again it's another poster.  I've given my opinion on that .  If someone come's to my door requesting a handful of cash on the assumption that on a non specific day, in a non specific year they may or may not be able to give it me back . would that be viable ?

Alternatively, they invest it wisely make a fortune and then reinvest with the next door neighbour rather than give me anything back - would that be viable ?

In the meantime, I'll sit at home with a pot noodle and a calor gas heater for warmth saying never mind. 

If you do have any specifics regarding how the British economy has been clearly boosted by exports to Poland and if this is higher than fiscal contribution made by the taxpayer via the EU, then great . I would still value an earlier retirement age though.

[GboroRam]

Just now, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

It isn't my analogy. Once again it's another poster.  I've given my opinion on that .  If someone come's to my door requesting a handful of cash on the assumption that on a non specific day, in a non specific year they may or may not be able to give it me back . would that be viable ?

Alternatively, they invest it wisely make a fortune and then reinvest with the next door neighbour rather than give me anything back - would that be viable ?

In the meantime, I'll sit at home with a pot noodle and a calor gas heater for warmth saying never mind. 

If you do have any specifics regarding how the British economy has been clearly boosted by exports to Poland and if this is higher than fiscal contribution made by the taxpayer via the EU, then great . I would still value an earlier retirement age though.

The thing is, it's a community. If the UK remains in the EU and our GDP falls, we know our neighbours will step in and support us. And when our neighbours need support, we will. Is it open to abuse? Possibly, I don't know enough. But with enough checks and balances in place it makes sense.

It's socialism of a kind, effectively. I know it's not popular but if we all stopped getting hung up on giving money to people and focused on the large issue at hand, we'd all benefit. Remember that the contribution you're talking about is a small figure in the total UK budget.

We're fighting over the scraps like always. Time to focus on the bigger picture.

[AndyinLiverpool]

5 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

It isn't my analogy. Once again it's another poster.  I've given my opinion on that .  If someone come's to my door requesting a handful of cash on the assumption that on a non specific day, in a non specific year they may or may not be able to give it me back . would that be viable ?

Alternatively, they invest it wisely make a fortune and then reinvest with the next door neighbour rather than give me anything back - would that be viable ?

In the meantime, I'll sit at home with a pot noodle and a calor gas heater for warmth saying never mind. 

If you do have any specifics regarding how the British economy has been clearly boosted by exports to Poland and if this is higher than fiscal contribution made by the taxpayer via the EU, then great . I would still value an earlier retirement age though.

I have to say that if you are impoverished, it is not because we are net contributors to the EU.

I personally don't mind us giving more money to the EU than we get back. I see the benefits as less tangible and not really to do with money. We are about to leave a community of mutual support and co-operation because we spend money on it. It seems short-sighted to me.

[GboroRam]

2 hours ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

True enough.

I have said before that I don't think one poster's views on here have been changed during the entire run of this thread, and the behemoth politics thread before.?

 

I wanted to respond to this earlier but I forgot.

I hope that enough people have had enough questions put to them that the question why anyone would vote Conservative. Apart from the empty soundbite "get Brexit done" they stand for nothing and caused all the problems we face today. They are led by an untrustable liar.

Get Brexit done. What a mindless slogan that is. Doesn't matter how, or with what quality of outcome, we're bored so lets get it done.

Swap "Brexit" for "vasectomy". I've been waiting ages and I just want vasectomy done. I don't care who does it, or how, or with what qualifications or experience, or whether they do a good job or not, or the amount of pain I'm going to suffer afterwards. Just get vasectomy done.

Jesus wept.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

14 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

The thing is, it's a community. If the UK remains in the EU and our GDP falls, we know our neighbours will step in and support us. And when our neighbours need support, we will. Is it open to abuse? Possibly, I don't know enough. But with enough checks and balances in place it makes sense.

It's socialism of a kind, effectively. I know it's not popular but if we all stopped getting hung up on giving money to people and focused on the large issue at hand, we'd all benefit. Remember that the contribution you're talking about is a small figure in the total UK budget.

We're fighting over the scraps like always. Time to focus on the bigger picture.

I have no problem with helping anyone who truly needs help. However, if the evidence suggests money is being used to give a better standard of living than those who are contributing, I have an issue.  Regarding socialism - I have plenty of second hand experience of that . My dad used to come home on a Saturday with a black eye from selling Militant and socialist worker in the city when Derby weren't at home and a black eye from the match if they were . Seemed to spend the first half of the eighties looking like an extra from Clockwork Orange.

8 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I have to say that if you are impoverished, it is not because we are net contributors to the EU.

I personally don't mind us giving more money to the EU than we get back. I see the benefits as less tangible and not really to do with money. We are about to leave a community of mutual support and co-operation because we spend money on it. It seems short-sighted to me.

 

[Angry Ram]

1 hour ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

The price of property is crazy down your neck of the woods, but so is the profit margin.  Saw some bloke buy a flat ( which I'm sure used to be cellar) below street level on a property program. It cost £245,000. He put in a new toilet and painted it, then flogged it for £305,000 5 weeks later. 

 

Used to be but the market has slowed considerably. The golden years have gone unless you sell to a Russian.

 

[GboroRam]

9 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Regarding socialism - I have plenty of second hand experience of that . My dad used to come home on a Saturday with a black eye from selling Militant and socialist worker in the city when Derby weren't at home and a black eye from the match if they were .

I'm genuinely sorry to hear that.

But you obviously know, not everyone selling a left wing paper beats their children. And not everyone who beats their children support socialist values. Just like his football support wasn't relevant to his actions, neither is his politics.

There's a thread to be had all about violence like this, but I don't think this is the one.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

4 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I'm genuinely sorry to hear that.

But you obviously know, not everyone selling a left wing paper beats their children. And not everyone who beats their children support socialist values. Just like his football support wasn't relevant to his actions, neither is his politics.

There's a thread to be had all about violence like this, but I don't think this is the one.

Appreciate the sentiment mate, but think you read the post wrong . It's was my dad that had the black eyes not me . It was the time of the miners strikes so quite a volatile time to sell these papers, I would certainly never suggest being a socialist in any way makes you more likely to hit a child than not .

[GboroRam]

Just now, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Appreciate the sentiment mate, but think you read the post wrong . It's was my dad that had the black eyes not me . It was the time of the miners strikes so quite a volatile time to sell these papers, I would certainly never suggest being a socialist in any way makes you more likely to hit a child than not .

My mistake. Reading it again of course it makes no sense he's selling Militant and Socialist Worker!

[King Kevin]

4 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

Well you've got the EU to thank for that then! It was an EU Directive on the progressive implementation of the principle of equal treatment for men and women in matters of social security that led to the women's pension age being harmonised with the men.

 

I always thought it was good news having a wife 11 years younger than me .I'll be bleeding dead before she gets her OAP now.

[Stive Pesley]

Just now, King Kevin said:

I always thought it was good news having a wife 11 years younger than me .I'll be bleeding dead before she gets her OAP now.

I hope you reaped the rewards while you still had the energy pal!

[King Kevin]

2 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I'm closer to the left than I am to the right, and I'm going to vote Labour in this election. That's mainly because their general principles align closest with my personal moral view of the world. 

However, as a student, I can confidently say that the pledge to abolish tuition fees is an absolute joke. The current system is good, as everyone essentially gets free education until they earn enough (£25,725 salary) to start paying it off. All unpaid debt is wiped off after 30 years if it hasn't been paid during that time.

I'm not attacking the concept of free tuition in itself. It's just that there are far more pressing issues for aspiring university students from poorer backgrounds. Tuition fees don't prevent anyone from attending uni, for the reasons outlined above. What does prevent those from poorer backgrounds from going into higher education is the cost of living. Whilst maintenance loans are given, they sometimes don't cover all of rent, food, textbooks, some socialising, etc. The money spent on abolishing tuition fees would be far better directed at increasing maintenance loans or subsidising student housing. 

If the Labour Party want to make a genuine difference to the lives of poor people aspiring to better themselves, they should stop with the eye-catching policies and direct the money where it truly matters.

You'll learn son, in the end you'll want to vote with your heart but end up voting for your wallet.

[King Kevin]

5 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

I hope you reaped the rewards while you still had the energy pal!

I do my best it's all a man can do.

[Wolfie]

46 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I hope that enough people have had enough questions put to them that the question why anyone would vote Labour. Apart from the empty soundbite "Time for real change" they stand for unicorn lala-land economics and caused all the problems we face today. They are led by an indecisive dinosaur.

Time for real change. What a mindless slogan that is. Doesn't matter how, or with what quality of outcome, we're bored so lets get it done.

FTFY. Just for a bit of balance.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

4 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

My mistake. Reading it again of course it makes no sense he's selling Militant and Socialist Worker!

Is there a difference between the two. You'd need to educate me on that .  I know he was only selling the Militant in 82 and 83 as we had loads in the house and the name stuck with me so there's maybe a reason for that . I was only 9 at the time.

My dad likes Corbyn and actually renewed his Labour party membership having chatted to a recently removed Derbyshire MP he's known since school who extoled his virtues. His support didn't work out well for him.  I must say for all my dads time flogging papers and time as a Union steward in the 90's he was very on the fence re the EU Referendum - it basically came down to the fact he disliked Gove and Rees-Mogg more than the others.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

11 minutes ago, King Kevin said:

You'll learn son, in the end you'll want to vote with your heart but end up voting for your wallet.

I hope not!

The removal of tuition fees would, I'd imagine, save me close to £60,000 further down the line. But I still oppose the policy when there are far better ways of helping students from low-income backgrounds, of which I am not one.