Stive Pesley Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: I notice you haven't given us your thoughts on this new promise and what the hell Labour are playing at, forgetting about it for their manifesto. Well it's stolen money in the first place isn't it? The social contract of the times ear-marked this money for the pensions of these women. Where did it go? It's win-win for me - corrects an injustice and boosts the (real) economy through the creation of money - straight into the pockets of ordinary people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 minute ago, SchtivePesley said: Well it's stolen money in the first place isn't it? The social contract of the times ear-marked this money for the pensions of these women. Where did it go? It's win-win for me - corrects an injustice and boosts the (real) economy through the creation of money - straight into the pockets of ordinary people Why should women get their pension before men anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, maxjam said: Well given that Sarah Champion was sacked for essentially stating facts and Sajid Javid said the issue needs to be debated, it would be a good idea imo to start at the top. If people see politicians being sacked for speaking out it doesn't inspire the average person in the street to speak up. Then all you're left with are the Tommy Robinsons of the world - the debate is artificially skewed to one of racism because the vast majority don't want to risk their livelihoods and remain silent. Sticking with immigration the Tories are for controlling it, Labour are for free movement. How about an independent body do proper research into the pros and cons then parliament discuss it without fear of being sacked for pereived racism etc. We don't always have to be at polar opposite ends of the spectrum. Yet not all politicians get sacked for making dodgy comments. What are your thoughts on Boris Johnson making openly racist and homophobic comments and refusing to apologise? Yet he's still the PM That's surely not the way either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 It’s men that have been sold out over pensions not women Redressing the pension age balance between Men and Women is fair enough. Why should men be any different from Women regarding how old you get your pension That’s the whole point on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Yet not all politicians get sacked for making dodgy comments. What are your thoughts on Boris Johnson making openly racist and homophobic comments and refusing to apologise? Yet he's still the PM That's surely not the way either? So are Labour anti Semitic or not ? No one should make racist remarks full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Curtains said: Why should women get their pension before men anyway. From what I understand it was historically done that way during WWII because the majority of men had wives younger than themselves and there was a higher pension rate if you were married, which some men weren't receiving until they reached 70 (eg if there wives for 5 years younger than them) It all seems a bit odd in the present day, and it has since been equalised. The WASPI issue is that for women born in the 1950s it was done without fair warning for anyone to adequately plan ahead financially to make up the shortfall. I assume that you are for equality of pension age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Curtains said: So are Labour anti Semitic or not ? No. Some people probably are. Some people associate criticism of Israel with antisemitism, but it isn't the case. Here's an interesting viewpoint: "Saying that Israel doesn’t have the right to a Jewish state at the expense of the Palestinians is not the same thing as saying that the Jews, and the Jews alone, have no right to a state at all. Saying that the ongoing oppression of the Palestinian people is not reasonable even given Israel’s security concerns is not the same thing as saying that the Jews alone have no right to defend themselves. Saying that there is something inherently colonialist and unfair about the way in which Israel was formed is not the same thing as saying that Israel is currently a colonialist state (a point that I’m open to discussion on in either direction, but I think depends primarily on your definition of “colonialist”), or that the Jews have no right to form a state." https://www.quora.com/Is-Jeremy-Corbyn-really-anti-Semitic-or-is-it-all-media-smear-campaigns-led-by-the-Daily-Mail-and-the-Sun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: From what I understand it was historically done that way during WWII because the majority of men had wives younger than themselves and there was a higher pension rate if you were married, which some men weren't receiving until they reached 70 (eg if there wives for 5 years younger than them) It all seems a bit odd in the present day, and it has since been equalised. The WASPI issue is that for women born in the 1950s it was done without fair warning for anyone to adequately plan ahead financially to make up the shortfall. I assume that you are for equality of pension age? Yes of course I’m for equality of pension age. Men’s should have stayed the same Women have had it good for too long now and now under Labour these Women will cost us all 58 Billion. 15000 or 30000 each approx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Yet not all politicians get sacked for making dodgy comments. What are your thoughts on Boris Johnson making openly racist and homophobic comments and refusing to apologise? Yet he's still the PM That's surely not the way either? Thats a different issue to the one that Sarah Champion was sacked over. If we are going to debate sensitive issues then we have to allow people to speak uncomfortable truths. Occasionally, given how sensitive the twitterati are to anything remotely contentious mistakes will be made and should be apologised for and moved on from. Unfortunately if you apologise to the baying social media mob there is never any forgiveness, you are just admitting that you did wrong which justifies further outrage and sanctions - its now often a better strategy to own your 'transgression' and never apologise. The whole circus is just one big vicious circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, Curtains said: Yes of course I’m for equality of pension age. Well you've got the EU to thank for that then! It was an EU Directive on the progressive implementation of the principle of equal treatment for men and women in matters of social security that led to the women's pension age being harmonised with the men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 23 minutes ago, Curtains said: So are Labour anti Semitic or not ? No one should make racist remarks full stop. I've asked our good friend Schtive several times to explain some of the behaviour of Corbyn and other party members, in which he returned a laughing emoji and demanded specific examples. Provided them and got another laughing emoji and no further response. No doubt he'll do the same again. Unfortunately you can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink it. Some people aren't interested in facing the uncomfortable truths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 I don’t want to go through the mess of opinions on this daft thread. All I’ll say is give me Binface! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Well you've got the EU to thank for that then! It was an EU Directive on the progressive implementation of the principle of equal treatment for men and women in matters of social security that led to the women's pension age being harmonised with the men. Well Labour want to stay in the EU right. https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2018/11/state-pension-age-equalised-for-men-and-women/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Curtains said: Why should women get their pension before men anyway. I think its all that giving birth to babies business. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 minute ago, WhiteHorseRam said: I think its all that giving birth to babies business. ? Don't be transphobic. Men can give birth too. It's only gender norms preached from birth that have convinced us all otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 On 24/11/2019 at 00:54, uttoxram75 said: Its impossible to debate politics on the internet. Ive spoke to mates today in the pub and none of us have fell out even though some of them are going to vote Tory. They are obviously completely wrong and deluded but we will still be drinking together next saturday v QPR. True enough. I have said before that I don't think one poster's views on here have been changed during the entire run of this thread, and the behemoth politics thread before.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said: Well it's stolen money in the first place isn't it? The social contract of the times ear-marked this money for the pensions of these women. Where did it go? It's win-win for me - corrects an injustice and boosts the (real) economy through the creation of money - straight into the pockets of ordinary people So it's OK that this massive cost has just appeared since the manifesto launch then? You're OK with these people running the country's finances when they can forget about £58bn for the most important document they could put together just a few days ago? I'm sure you'd be just as understanding if any other party had done this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Anon said: Don't be transphobic. Men can give birth too. It's only gender norms preached from birth that have convinced us all otherwise. Ooh blimey I'd better watch my Ps and Qs. Has a bloke had a baby yet then? My boss nearly had one a week ago when he saw my expenses claim but that's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said: Ooh blimey I'd better watch my Ps and Qs. Has a bloke had a baby yet then? My boss nearly had one a week ago when he saw my expenses claim but that's a different story. You are so behind the times, keep up https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/16/boys-can-have-periods-schoolchildren-taught-latest-victory-transgender/ ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: I'm sure you'd be just as understanding if any other party had done this. I assume you are being deeply ironic here - as the person who only ever wrings his hands over the financial dealings of one party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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