The Politics Thread 2019

[A Ram for All Seasons]

3 minutes ago, Norman said:

So, for the next 40 odd days, we are going to argue about the NHS and probably worker's rights. 

Why the hell are the opposition party not tearing apart the Withdrawal Agreement? 

It's almost as if Project Fear didn't work on Brexit after all, so we've moved on to the NHS. 

Project Fear ll. 

And let's be honest, the NHS isn't fit for purpose. 9.3 million people born outside of this country with direct access probably doesn't help. 

The Withdrawal Agreement is just that, i.e. it only concerns the means by which Britain withdraws from the EU.

The real test will come after withdrawal when all existing trade arrangements withe EU countries and third countries have to be renegotiated. God help us if it's Johnson and his private equity-backed toff chums who are doing the negotiating.

[Norman]

2 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

The Withdrawal Agreement is just that, i.e. it only concerns the means by which Britain withdraws from the EU.

The real test will come after withdrawal when all existing trade arrangements withe EU countries and third countries have to be renegotiated. God help us if it's Johnson and his private equity-backed toff chums who are doing the negotiating.

Strange. I thought it was going to tear up the UK. 

Instead it looks like Corbyn might do it by offering a second Scottish referendum. 

Referendum mad that man. 

Let's hope abacus Abbott and Corbyn aren't near the negotiations either. 

They'll do a deal then vote against it. 

[A Ram for All Seasons]

29 minutes ago, Norman said:

Strange. I thought it was going to tear up the UK. 

Instead it looks like Corbyn might do it by offering a second Scottish referendum. 

Referendum mad that man. 

Let's hope abacus Abbott and Corbyn aren't near the negotiations either. 

They'll do a deal then vote against it. 

The Withdrawal Agreement only covers withdrawal from the EU.

What happens in the future is governed by a "political declaration", a non-binding letter of intent that means nothing. They have already taken the references to tax dodging out of the latest version, as @GboroRam has already pointed out on here, and Boris will tear up the rest as soon as he gets into office.

And if you think the NHS is already unfit for purpose, just think what it would be like when tax revenues start falling even more. Project Fear indeed.

 They're not bothered about schools and the NHS, only Eton and Harley Street. 

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Norman said:

So, for the next 40 odd days, we are going to argue about the NHS and probably worker's rights. 

Why the hell are the opposition party not tearing apart the Withdrawal Agreement? 

It's almost as if Project Fear didn't work on Brexit after all, so we've moved on to the NHS. 

Project Fear ll. 

And let's be honest, the NHS isn't fit for purpose. 9.3 million people born outside of this country with direct access probably doesn't help. 

You forgot tax havens.

[Stive Pesley]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

You forgot tax havens.

Serious question though - would the state of our country's finances be in a better or worse condition if the super-rich and the large corporations paid their fair share of tax rather than stash it all in tax havens?

Better or worse?

 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Serious question though - would the state of our country's finances be in a better or worse condition if the super-rich and the large corporations paid their fair share of tax rather than stash it all in tax havens?

Better or worse?

Better.

Serious question though - would our countrys finances be better if we drove large corporations away to countries outside of the EU because they are allowed to have artificially low tax rates?

Better or worse?

[Spanish]

2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

Looe - a Tory stronghold as well.  What will it take for the penny to drop with some people?

 

But all it does is confirm their view that the country is over run by foreigners and that's why you can' t se GP

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Better.

Serious question though - would our countrys finances be better if we drove large corporations away to countries outside of the EU because they are allowed to have artificially low tax rates?

Better or worse?

Where are you thinking? The US has higher corp tax than ours or the EUs. Luxembourg and Ireland (both EU) have no/low corp tax rates.

But anyway - aren't you asking the wrong question? if global corporations earn revenues globally, then they should be taxed as such (and end all this arbitraging) - at a global level.

The current tax system for business has been in place since something like 1923.

[Spanish]

2 hours ago, Norman said:

 

And let's be honest, the NHS isn't fit for purpose. 9.3 million people born outside of this country with direct access probably doesn't help. 

about a third of which were born abroad and held British nationality.  Sill a big figure though.  How many of the 2/3rds are tax payers and therefore contribute, I have no idea but there must be a significant number

[GboroRam]

25 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Where are you thinking? The US has higher corp tax than ours or the EUs. Luxembourg and Ireland (both EU) have no/low corp tax rates.

But anyway - aren't you asking the wrong question? if global corporations earn revenues globally, then they should be taxed as such (and end all this arbitraging) - at a global level.

The current tax system for business has been in place since something like 1923.

I think you forgot to answer his question, where the answer would probably be "no difference, because companies can go to low/no corp tax countries now but choose not to". If we increase corporation tax to a level near or equal the rest of the developed western world we likely would see no change.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

I think you forgot to answer his question, where the answer would probably be "no difference, because companies can go to low/no corp tax countries now but choose not to". If we increase corporation tax to a level near or equal the rest of the developed western world we likely would see no change.

I do forget things easily...….its an age thing I guess.

It's a bit like Boris forgetting what his position on key issues is, or who he is meant to be bonking at any given moment...….?

But I agree with your analysis - having listened to many hours of the Chair and Group CEO of HSBC bank laboriously setting out the pros and cons of moving the group hq to Hong Kong, I can confirm that tax rates were a long way down their list......

[A Ram for All Seasons]

5 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I do forget things easily...….its an age thing I guess.

It's a bit like Boris forgetting what his position on key issues is, or who he is meant to be bonking at any given moment...….?

But I agree with your analysis - having listened to many hours of the Chair and Group CEO of HSBC bank laboriously setting out the pros and cons of moving the group hq to Hong Kong, I can confirm that tax rates were a long way down their list......

They tend to move individual transactions to lower tax regimes, not the company HQ.

Transactions are enacted through a subsidiary in Ireland or Luxembourg. The HQ stays here because Ireland or Luxembourg wouldn't have enough funds to bail them out with taxpayers' money if they run into difficulty.

[Van der MoodHoover]

5 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

They tend to move individual transactions to lower tax regimes, not the company HQ.

Transactions are enacted through a subsidiary in Ireland or Luxembourg. The HQ stays here because Ireland or Luxembourg wouldn't have enough funds to bail them out with taxpayers' money if they run into difficulty.

which is why it is the global system that requires reform. Just routing transactions electronically through a low cost tax environment adds very littleto that country but takes revenue away from elsewhere.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, GboroRam said:

I think you forgot to answer his question, where the answer would probably be "no difference, because companies can go to low/no corp tax countries now but choose not to". If we increase corporation tax to a level near or equal the rest of the developed western world we likely would see no change.

Isnt one of the reasons because there are loopholes to help them avoid paying high rates of tax?

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

which is why it is the global system that requires reform.

And the EU has been trying to sort out the issue at a bloc level, through legislation - which is a start

Unfortunately the UK chose the same moment to vote to brexit

But at least none of the Leave campaign had anything to do with that - and definitely wasn't funded by people who stand to lose out if they get taxed fairly. Deffo not that

Deffo.

 

[GboroRam]

Do you believe Trump giving support to his bigly friend Boris:

A) helps Johnson

B) helps Corbyn 

C) helps neither 

? 

[ramit]

3 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Do you believe Trump giving support to his bigly friend Boris:

A) helps Johnson

B) helps Corbyn 

C) helps neither 

? 

Helps both?

[GboroRam]

I notice that the failure to leave as promised has hit many of Boris' Facebook supporters so hard they can't post normally. 

[TomBustler1884]

I like to think I'm fairly reasonable, open to debate and keen to hear other people's ideas.

But on Brexit, I've never heard anyone articulate why they believe we're better off outside the EU. All I see are problems from leaving.

On Boris, I dont understand how anybody can think he represents "the people". He is the perfect embodiment of upper class entitlement.

On Corbyn, I can't get the hatred and fear of him. I'm no Corbynite, he is stubborn, dour and has handled things badly. But the level of hate for him is bizarre.

It just all seems wrong to me.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

"We will leave the EU on 31 October , no ifs, no buts, do or die."