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RamNut

The winger conundrum

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24 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

My favourite is when someone makes a reply, and hints at the very high level they've played/coached the game at, as if that makes a different opinion somehow less valid!

We haven't had one of those for quite a while though, which is a pity.

I don't know whether this answers your point @reveldevil but when I played at the equivalent of League 1 the manager would regularly change formation depending on who was available and what their best position was. It's a trick FL ought to try instead of leaving his midfield wide open game after game after game. 

Now that I coach at a semi-pro team, it's something I've taken on board because I can see the benefits. The 433 Lampard insists on playing doesn't work with the players he has at his disposal, and I can see that another system would work because I've experienced it.

 

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5 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

I don't know whether this answers your point @reveldevil but when I played at the equivalent of League 1 the manager would regularly change formation depending on who was available and what their best position was. It's a trick FL ought to try instead of leaving his midfield wide open game after game after game. 

Now that I coach at a semi-pro team, it's something I've taken on board because I can see the benefits. The 433 Lampard insists on playing doesn't work with the players he has at his disposal, and I can see that another system would work because I've experienced it.

 

Works better when it's someone with no posting history, who suddenly appears spouting tactical or technical musings and shouts down others based on his obviously superior knowledge and understanding.

The most recent one was the poster who told us all our youth players were crap, and he knew this because he was part of the youth set up.

Nice try though.

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38 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

My favourite is when someone makes a reply, and hints at the very high level they've played/coached the game at, as if that makes a different opinion somehow less valid!

We haven't had one of those for quite a while though, which is a pity.

Have we not? Didn't one poster recently claim to have 2 coaching badges?

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19 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Have we not? Didn't one poster recently claim to have 2 coaching badges?

I must have missed that one. 

To be fair, the level one FA badge basically says you're not a psychopath or danger to the kids you coach.

I was about to go on the course myself, then subbed off a kid I'd bought on only 5 minutes earlier, because he wasn't putting the in the effort I wanted during a top of the table encounter, against a team we had no right to compete with.

I realised then it wasn't for me.

I don't think my lad spoke to me for 3 months afterwards, and rightly so!

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31 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

I must have missed that one. 

To be fair, the level one FA badge basically says you're not a psychopath or danger to the kids you coach.

I was about to go on the course myself, then subbed off a kid I'd bought on only 5 minutes earlier, because he wasn't putting the in the effort I wanted during a top of the table encounter, against a team we had no right to compete with.

I realised then it wasn't for me.

I don't think my lad spoke to me for 3 months afterwards, and rightly so!

Wasn't FA badges, it was fifa badges. Leave you to decide what that means 🤭

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12 hours ago, reveldevil said:

Works better when it's someone with no posting history, who suddenly appears spouting tactical or technical musings and shouts down others based on his obviously superior knowledge and understanding.

The most recent one was the poster who told us all our youth players were crap, and he knew this because he was part of the youth set up.

Nice try though.

I have actually coached for 12 years, but youth footie up to U19. And I've got various badges. But that doesn't sound as impressive. Or mean I have a clue what I'm talking about. 

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On 28/12/2018 at 14:12, Westcumbrianram said:

When will people realise waghorn isn't a winger. Waghorn should be sharing the striker role with Marriott. A new winger or wingers is a must. Plenty of options on loan. 

 

On 29/12/2018 at 21:41, Duracell said:

He had the best form of his career playing wide last season.

Beat form for Derby up top.

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1 minute ago, Westcumbrianram said:

 

Beat form for Derby up top.

Four league goals this season. 2 when playing on the right, 2 when playing as the striker. Except for our last game against Hull, Waghorn has performed much better on the right than on the striker

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1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Four league goals this season. 2 when playing on the right, 2 when playing as the striker. Except for our last game against Hull, Waghorn has performed much better on the right than on the striker

I think the point is that currently we don't have striking options (Marriott out and Nuge not doing it) and Waghorn is doing a great job in Marriott's absence.

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38 minutes ago, Edtheram said:

The last time he played upfront on his own was Millwall away in August? Waghorn is a very good striker at this level

The last time he started upfront was against Rotherham in September. He has come on as sub a few times since then as well

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14 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The last time he started upfront was against Rotherham in September. He has come on as sub a few times since then as well

Im only going off what radio Derby said, cant really look too much into sub appearences IMO depends how long you get. I thought the team looked stronger with him holding the ball up and getting into the box.

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I think this is a daft debate - Waghorn is just an excellent player - He's good on the wing because he's skillful, has vision, works hard and can make excellently timed runs into the box - He's also good up front because he's strong, driven, hard working, great team player and good reaction finishing - All of those qualities make him excellent in both positions - As long as he's on the pitch I'm happy

However

My pet peeve at the moment is the lack of width we have - Left footers on the right and right footers on the left - Obviously the way Lampard wants to play with 'wingers' cutting inside rather than outside - But against Hull (and in many other games) it just means we've got too many players trying to take up the exact same positions on the edge of the box and the fullbacks get exposed 1 vs 2 coming forward

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1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

I think this is a daft debate - Waghorn is just an excellent player - He's good on the wing because he's skillful, has vision, works hard and can make excellently timed runs into the box - He's also good up front because he's strong, driven, hard working, great team player and good reaction finishing - All of those qualities make him excellent in both positions - As long as he's on the pitch I'm happy

However

My pet peeve at the moment is the lack of width we have - Left footers on the right and right footers on the left - Obviously the way Lampard wants to play with 'wingers' cutting inside rather than outside - But against Hull (and in many other games) it just means we've got too many players trying to take up the exact same positions on the edge of the box and the fullbacks get exposed 1 vs 2 coming forward

I'm not one for suggesting sudden changes in system etc. but there is an element to which I agree with this.

I like the inverted wingers as I think it probably gives us a greater goal threat from those wide players. However, I do feel that it is stifling Marriott a bit. I love Marriott, I think he's genuinely a quality attacker and, from what I've seen, the best instinct finisher we've had at the club for some time. Give him a chance and he'll likely take it. But he's not a backs to goal striker a la Martin or Waghorn that others can feed off. To try to get him to play as such diminishes his ability and also that of those around him because he doesn't 'link' the play well enough.

Imagine Marriott with balls fizzing across from wide with our wingers getting to the byline and cutting them in - I think he'd be lethal.

I'm not saying we ditch the current system, far from it. But I do think it wouldn't hurt us to mix things up. As a side, we looked so dangerous when our wingers (Russell/Ward, Ward/Ince, Ince/Russell or Ibe etc) used to switch. It made us less predictable and encouraged our wingers to get to the byline and get balls in when they'd switched.

That being said, I'm not sure we have the wingers to play that way, with the possible exception of Jozefzoon, I think most of them like to come inside (Lawrence, Wilson, Holmes, Waghorn).

Just a mere observation, for what its worth.

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