Spanish Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: It makes the future more exciting than not going. Also, SpaceX plans a colony of a million people by the end of the century as a backup to civilization on Earth, in case we blow ourselves up here. The ultimate goal is to become multiplanetary, living across the solar system and spreading out to the stars. If you consider the the trillions of humans capable of living good lives in such a future, it's a moral imperative to work to create it. what was he quote from The Matrix, 'humans are like a virus, colonising and infecting wherever they go', well something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 57 minutes ago, Spanish said: what was he quote from The Matrix, 'humans are like a virus, colonising and infecting wherever they go', well something like that To be fair all species have a tendency to colonize wherever they go, provided the environment is suitable. Problem is, we've just been too destructive in our colonizing on Earth. We can't do too much damage to the plant and animal life on Mars ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Countdown to "philosophical" getting added to the banned subjects list? 5......4......3......2..... Joking aside, it's an interesting subject so I hope we can keep it civil. So far so good. Who'd go to Mars if it was a realistic possibility in their lifetime? I think I would (but i doubt it will be an option before I pop me clogs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, StivePesley said: Who'd go to Mars if it was a realistic possibility in their lifetime? I think I would (but i doubt it will be an option before I pop me clogs) Being on Mars would be interesting to me. It's staying sane on the massively long journey that would worry me more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Wolfie said: Being on Mars would be interesting to me. It's staying sane on the massively long journey that would worry me more. Podcasts mate. Podcasts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, Wolfie said: Being on Mars would be interesting to me. It's staying sane on the massively long journey that would worry me more. You'd have to start off sane first.. ? Dang, there goes the civility on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 8 hours ago, StivePesley said: I hope it happens just so as to finally shut up the 'moon-landing was fake' and flat earther conspiracy lot ? Sadly you never convince morons. Even the first landing with Apollo 11 left mirrors to bounce laser beams off from Earth, so scientists could measure how fast it's moving away from us. Anyone could do the same if they were bothered. Nowadays all the lunar landing sites are clearly identifiable from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (a satellite that orbits the Moon, photographing it) images, with astronaut footprints and lunar rover tyre tracks, and the abandoned equipment: http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/missions/solar-system/lunar-reconnaissance-orbiter-photographs-apollo-landing-sites/ In the presentation Elon Musk talked about growing up watching Space: 1999 and saying it's about time we had our own Moonbase Alpha. Couldn't agree more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said: Sadly you never convince morons. Even the first landing with Apollo 11 left mirrors to bounce laser beams off from Earth, so scientists could measure how fast it's moving away from us. Anyone could do the same if they were bothered. Nowadays all the lunar landing sites are clearly identifiable from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (a satellite that orbits the Moon, photographing it) images, with astronaut footprints and lunar rover tyre tracks, and the abandoned equipment: http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/missions/solar-system/lunar-reconnaissance-orbiter-photographs-apollo-landing-sites/ In the presentation Elon Musk talked about growing up watching Space: 1999 and saying it's about time we had our own Moonbase Alpha. Couldn't agree more! Give over ,, any gimp could do the above with screen shots and an Apple Pencil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Archied said: Give over ,, any gimp could do the above with screen shots and an Apple Pencil In fact if you look closely you can see a the hint of a Paul Hollywood shadow and a Mary berry signature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 39 minutes ago, Wolfie said: Being on Mars would be interesting to me. It's staying sane on the massively long journey that would worry me more. One of the advantages is that this is a much bigger spaceship that we're used to seeing. Even the smaller-scale version they're building at the moment has seven decks with a 9m diameter, and the top deck is a huge area for all sorts of entertainment. You might even have zero-G concerts (this is a visualization of the actual ship interior): Also, current Mars probes and NASA's own plans take an optimal trajectory in terms of fuel economy, so the journey tends to be around 7 months. The SpaceX ship leaves Earth but then waits in orbit while tankers go up to refuel it, meaning it is fully fuelled to go to Mars and can make the journey much faster. Musk was talking about 3-month voyages in the presentation. But podcasts help too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 7 hours ago, Lambchop said: What's the point of going to Mars? Great place to work, rest and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Can't we just live on massive space cruise ships like on wall-e? Mars sounds crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 26 minutes ago, i-Ram said: Great place to work, rest and play. Not as up market as the Milky Way though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 6 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: My personal perspective reinforces it because from a theoretical physics point of view the concepts of past, present and future disappear. So, I think the future lives are not hypothetical but are as real as yours or mine. But that's not a standard justification. Ok, if we're going to go left field, I think human consciousness is actually tied in to existence on this planet. Alienation from nature, and living out of balance with the environment, is a big part of why we're so ducked up mentally, spiritually and morally. What you're proposing would involve living in a completely artificial environment, probably for many generations. You have no idea what that would do to people, but we already know the kinds of effects unnatural environments have on our health and well-being. I think life in space would be hell. Also, I think the future development of humans should be approached in terms of higher levels of consciousness. We know so little about ourselves inwardly, and how to evolve to a state where we can live in harmony; maybe even transcending some of our current physical limitations. The development of technology, and ultimately the desire for space travel, is merely an outer projection of the journey we should be taking inwardly. That's why I see it as an evasion of responsibility, in addition to all the ethical objections to the rich ducking off and leaving the poor behind to starve on the planet they have destroyed. If it ever came down to a straight choice in my lifetime, I know I'd be staying, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 I thought @Lambchop would be first in line to go to mars considering its known as the red planet. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 11 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: It makes the future more exciting than not going. Also, SpaceX plans a colony of a million people by the end of the century as a backup to civilization on Earth, in case we blow ourselves up here. The ultimate goal is to become multiplanetary, living across the solar system and spreading out to the stars. If you consider the the trillions of humans capable of living good lives in such a future, it's a moral imperative to work to create it. No it isnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 24 minutes ago, Paul71 said: I thought @Lambchop would be first in line to go to mars considering its known as the red planet. ? Don't actually like red. Can't think why... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 12 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: It makes the future more exciting than not going. Also, SpaceX plans a colony of a million people by the end of the century as a backup to civilization on Earth, in case we blow ourselves up here. The ultimate goal is to become multiplanetary, living across the solar system and spreading out to the stars. If you consider the the trillions of humans capable of living good lives in such a future, it's a moral imperative to work to create it. 1 hour ago, RamNut said: No it isnt. As an example, the Effective Altruism movement tries to take an objective view of how best to devote your time and money to do the most good: https://www.effectivealtruism.org/articles/introduction-to-effective-altruism/ They highight three great causes: fighting etreme poverty ending animal suffering safeguarding humanity's long-term future Looking at option 3, they say "Because of the scale of the future, it seems likely that work on this problem is even more high impact than work on the previous two cause areas" and point to a report by the 80,000 Hours group (you work ~80,000 hours in your life so these people advise on the choice of career to have the most impact for good): https://80000hours.org/articles/future-generations/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 The reasoning behind effective altruism is fundamentally economically and morally flawed. Unfortunately, discussing this fully would take us into areas that are currently verboten. The moral arguments which I find most compelling are around the implications for individual human rights, if Singer's philosophy was applied universally. See also any of the critiques of utilitarianism. The article below points to some of the economic arguments, if you are interested: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/08/peter-singer-charity-effective-altruism/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 12 hours ago, Lambchop said: Ok, if we're going to go left field, I think human consciousness is actually tied in to existence on this planet. Alienation from nature, and living out of balance with the environment, is a big part of why we're so ducked up mentally, spiritually and morally. What you're proposing would involve living in a completely artificial environment, probably for many generations. You have no idea what that would do to people, but we already know the kinds of effects unnatural environments have on our health and well-being. I think life in space would be hell. Broadly agree, and that's why it would be imperative to address the mental health challenges just as much as the technological ones. We could have a perfect, sustainable environment on Mars, the pinnacle of mankind's technological achievements - and it would mean nothing if everyone went insane within 6 months and started to stab each other with space cutlery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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