kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: But he had a January transfer window as well, and he didn’t sort the issues out then either.... The point is both had their hands tied. I don’t think mcclaren was totally to blame for the collapse last year, and it’s unfair to not say the same about Rowett. Both need players in January but had their hands tied and couldn’t get them. Rowett even said he didn’t get as much business done as he’d have liked. Now he needs to do what mcclaren failed to do and get a grip on things before they continue to get out of hand, or he’ll suffer exactly the same fate. True..... I predict he won't and we will see a change come the end of the season.... Which would be a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, archied said: Is Steve’s macs legacy the bottlers tag that we now can’t shake off and piles more pressure on ? Its a problem for thick fans but you can't really argue that it should affect the players that have come in during the last 18 months. If other fans are calling us' bottlers' just tell them to sod off. Pressure from the 'bottlers ' tag is fake news. That we are having a dip now can be explained by much better reasons - we were never that good earlier in the season / poor decisions in the January window/ poor team selection by the manager / unlucky injuries - take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 9 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: I'd be very disappointed if Gary has abandoned his ethos and values because of what the fans think. To be honest,I was a bit mean there with my comment as I went to the Leeds match and for the first time this season,really enjoyed the match...it was chaotic but at least I was excited by the game and the cut and thrust of it... You mean that was a deliberate plan? I've seen little to convince me anything but Rowett only plays one way, the rest is all talk. He talks a good game, until the pressure is on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDCAR Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Spare a thought for those poor old Forest fans.... after winning two European cups 40 odd years ago has seen nothing but a death spiral for them.... we won’t ever have it as bad as them, not while I’m alive anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 37 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: You mean that was a deliberate plan? I've seen little to convince me anything but Rowett only plays one way, the rest is all talk. He talks a good game, until the pressure is on... Definitely not on plan at least I bloody hope not. I enjoyed the match not for how we played which was all over the shop but more as an entertaining game almost as a neutral would. It was chaos out there! As a Derby fan it was less controlled than anything I saw under wassel,McLaren or clement....that's saying something ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistaram Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 38 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: You mean that was a deliberate plan? I've seen little to convince me anything but Rowett only plays one way, the rest is all talk. He talks a good game, until the pressure is on... Sounds a bit like Mclaren then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottingram Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 9 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: This is absolutely something Gary had brought about...with his choices. Mac didn't choose for Martin,Thorne and Buxton to get injured at a critical juncture. It's up to Gary to sort it out now. Whereas Rowett deliberately nobbled Winnall and told Russell to clear off to America I assume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, nottingram said: Whereas Rowett deliberately nobbled Winnall and told Russell to clear off to America I assume? Winnall was on loan so surely was a supplement rather than a nailed on starter,Russell has stated he didn't enjoy playing as we did and fell out with rowett early in the season....rowett sent Martin and Bryson out on loan. His choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, Mistaram said: Sounds a bit like Mclaren then And we know what happened to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottingram Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Winnall was on loan so surely was a supplement rather than a nailed on starter,Russell has stated he didn't enjoy playing as we did and fell out with rowett early in the season....rowett sent Martin and Bryson out on loan. His choices. Winnall was quite clearly 2nd choice striker, doesn’t matter if he was on loan or not. Russell and Rowett’s fall out must’ve been terrible if he then continued picking him. Loaning out Bryson is something Rowett didn’t want to do but budgets forced it, Martin was considered 4th choice striker due to only scoring once this season (he actually started the season 1st choice). If you think we can afford to carry thise wages around in case of injuries then I’m not sure you have much of a grasp of the situation, and I’m not sure these players would be too chuffed about it. We get it, you don’t like Rowett and the imaginary hoofball but you’re clutching at straws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 minute ago, nottingram said: Winnall was quite clearly 2nd choice striker, doesn’t matter if he was on loan or not. Russell and Rowett’s fall out must’ve been terrible if he then continued picking him. Loaning out Bryson is something Rowett didn’t want to do but budgets forced it, Martin was considered 4th choice striker due to only scoring once this season. If you think we can afford to carry thise wages around in case of injuries then I’m not sure you have much of a grasp of the situation, and I’m not sure these players would be too chuffed about it. We get it, you don’t like Rowett and the imaginary hoofball but you’re clutching at straws. Was Winnall *clearly* 2nd choice? Rowett stopped picking Russell Bryson's wages will still be here next season, we could have done with him. Martin has scored twice but hardly started, how many games? If you can't see that Rowett has thoroughly made his own bed, well you're blinkered. It's up to Rowett to make it work, he's chosen his way, it'll be his result if we go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 10 hours ago, archied said: Your seeing the post wrongly as a pop at Steve Mac and a big up for rowett ,,, it’s a serious question ,, it’s a mill stone that’s been attached to our club and looks like it will take some shaking off, we are slipping away from second spot and it hurts , but if I’m totally honest with myself ,for us to get second spot with the spend and changes in style rowett would be a miracle worker never mind good manager ,, but sadly most media ,pundits and some fans ,Derby and general will label it another bottle job to further cement the label and make an even heavier millstone Like you, I'm a Rowett fan & sceptical of the blind hero worship MacClaren gets on here from some but I don't think its fair to say 'bottling it' is his legacy. He did undoubtedly raise expectations (without ultimately delivering anything tangible i.e. a promotion) & that pressure to both get results & play a certain style is something all Derby managers have had to live with since he left first time. The irony of course is MacClaren was largely successful first time round because of the lack of expectation after the relatively lean Clough years of rebuilding & the surprise element of catching other teams cold with our new attacking style. The only issue with 'bottling' I think comes from us as fans - its our impatience, silence at home games & irrational reactions to the ebb & flow of normal Championship results that is fuelling this mistaken tag. Rowett, Jerome, Huddlestone, Davies, Nugent, Vydra etc weren't at the club last time we fell away from certain promotion - the main denominator is us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottingram Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Just now, RoyMac5 said: Was Winnall *clearly* 2nd choice? Rowett stopped picking Russell Bryson's wages will still be here next season, we could have done with him. Martin has scored twice but hardly started, how many games? If you can't see that Rowett has thoroughly made his own bed, well you're blinkered. It's up to Rowett to make it work, he's chosen his way, it'll be his result if we go up. Erm I’d say so, definitely at least until Jerome’s arrival. When did he stop picking Russell? They will yes, mainly as he’s spent the season injured. Once for us, nine starts. I think budgets have made Rowett’s bed personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Just now, nottingram said: Erm I’d say so, definitely at least until Jerome’s arrival. When did he stop picking Russell? They will yes, mainly as he’s spent the season injured. Once for us, nine starts. I think budgets have made Rowett’s bed personally. Err he didn't have to sign Jerome if he had a 2nd choice he believed in He stopped when they had a falling out early season Bryson looked a good loan signing when he was playing for Cardiff, injuries happen nine starts, one goal, going through a bad patch then, Jerome did this season, Vydra did last, etc Budgets are *every* managers bed - you have to get the best from what you have, plus some signings if you're lucky. It's Rowetts team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistaram Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 34 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: And we know what happened to him. Quite right and not before time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Mistaram said: Quite right and not before time We'll give Rowett that long then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistaram Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Just now, RoyMac5 said: We'll give Rowett that long then. He will be here this time next season by that time I would imagine you will have been in touch with the Samaritans ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Just now, Mistaram said: He will be here this time next season by that time I would imagine you will have been in touch with the Samaritans ?? I reckon I can get their number from Mel, he'll have it by now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottingram Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Err he didn't have to sign Jerome if he had a 2nd choice he believed in He stopped when they had a falling out early season Bryson looked a good loan signing when he was playing for Cardiff, injuries happen nine starts, one goal, going through a bad patch then, Jerome did this season, Vydra did last, etc Budgets are *every* managers bed - you have to get the best from what you have, plus some signings if you're lucky. It's Rowetts team. I think we’re seeing at the moment two probably isn’t enough, it’s a key injury to a player who has made important contributions this season and I’m not sure how it can really be dressed up differently to that tbh? And then he started picking him again so the falling out was clearly minor. Maybe they never fully recovered, who knows, but again we lost a key player for a measly sum without the budget to replace him. We’re now relying on Palmer and a clearly inferior Anya. I have said many times on here I think Martin has been treated poorly by Derby as a club, but not by Rowett. He gave him ample opportunities and as I’ve mentioned he actually started the first game of the season. Since then he’s fallen down the pecking order and we couldn’t afford to keep him around just in case, that much is quite obvious to me. Bryson is a good player but is getting on with a skill set that relies on staying fit. He’s been injury prone for quite some time now. Again, nothing against him particularly, probably my favourite Derby player I’ve seen but time for us to move on. Doubt he’d have made much of an impact as his direct replacement in this team would be Vydra rather than either CM. I’m not denying Rowett has made mistakes but I think there’s a few posters that will blame him for stuff that isn’t really his doing and stuff that certain other managers are also guilty of. All that does is weaken arguments when there is genuine criticisms to be made. That’s just my take on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, nottingram said: I have said many times on here I think Martin has been treated poorly by Derby as a club, but not by Rowett. He gave him ample opportunities and as I’ve mentioned he actually started the first game of the season. Since then he’s fallen down the pecking order and we couldn’t afford to keep him around just in case, that much is quite obvious to me. Bryson is a good player but is getting on with a skill set that relies on staying fit. He’s been injury prone for quite some time now. Again, nothing against him particularly, probably my favourite Derby player I’ve seen but time for us to move on. Doubt he’d have made much of an impact as his direct replacement in this team would be Vydra rather than either CM. Rowett has treated Martin the same way he did Bryson, Hughes, Shackell, Anya, Butterfield and Ince. Made it abundantly clear in a charming roundabout way - ie I think you're wonderful, but...with Martin it was a tougher game because no other team was likely to come in and match his contract with us. So it's been a game of attrition with Rowett knowing that Martin wants to play as did Bryson. How many starts did Vydra and Martin have? The choices have been down to Rowett. He has made his choices either obviously or covertly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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