Do we really need any new incomings in January?

[VulcanRam]

8 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

This. I was lucky to be pitchside on Saturday and for the few minutes he was on, George Thorne was clearly head and shoulders aove any other player on the pitch. More skillful, better vision, great upper body strength and good pace over five yards. He has to play more. Yes it would be great to have a swwashbuckling midfielder like Pogba or De Bruyne, but in reality no one more talented than George will walk through the doors of Pride Park while we're a Championship club.

Then, we've got the likes of Luke Thomas on fire in the U23s. Now is the time to bring a player like that on. Elsnik has scored incredible goals for Swindon and I believe would be ready if we had room in the squad and it would help turn him into a potentially fabulous player.

We need to ship out at least four players (I'd be happy with seven or eight leaving) before we look at bringing yet more people in. We have loads of highly thought of senior pros who can't even make the bench. Anya is a Scottish international who's won promotion. Shackell has played well in the Premier League. Pearce captained Reading to promotion. Wisdom captained the England U21s and was highly thought of at Liverpool. Benty has been bought for £58m throughout his career as an England international. For me, Roos is a fine backup keeper. Olsson has played for Sweden. Bryson is unwanted, but another Scottish international currently in the division's top two. Blackman is scoring plenty in Israel and the Europa League. Butterfield has been thought of as one of the Championship's mmost gifted and skillful midfielders. Mason Bennett is the youngest ever player to debut for the mighty Derby County. Can we really bring anyone new in who would look better on paper than some of these? Yet they all seem surplus to requirements and that's a vast amount of wages not on the pitch.

Totally agree re GT; when fit he's always the first name on the team sheet for me. 

Regards the rest of your list: Pearce and Wisdom are on the bench most games aren't they? And Bryson, Butterfield and Blackman can't be on the bench on the basis they aren't at the club! Olsson I feel has been given a bit of a rough ride and should be fighting for the left back slot. That kind of leaves Bent, Shackell and Anya really surplus to requirement. 

For all the talk on here about the amazing youngsters we have - well Gary hasn't deemed them ready so far this season, so who is to suggest they are suddenly ready now?

Remember we are in the play off places at the moment, not running away with the league. And we are likely to stay there. If that's the level of our ambition then fine, do nothing.

If we want to push on and have a crack at automatic promotion, I'd say bringing in at least one player, possibly two, is a must.

 

[RamNut]

 thomas is still a long way off first team quality 

all of the u23s are

 Vernam and bennett are the nearest imo but they aren't ready yet.

 

 

[Mistaram]

5 minutes ago, RamNut said:

 thomas is still a long way off first team quality 

all of the u23s are

 Vernam and bennett are the nearest imo but they aren't ready yet.

 

 

Have to agree with you but please not Bennett that lad is going backwards rapidly

 

 

 

[Sparkle]

It always seems a difficult one when it comes to adding quality players in the championship especially when that is what we have in abundance - internationals most of them with Huge experience of the premiership and championship promotion seasons 

we are in a good place and the players look like they are buying into the package and if we managed to get to the money league then we would need at least 4-5 of a higher standard which would be more challenging as a promoted club.

[Wolfie20]

11 hours ago, brady1993 said:

It's a bit of a tricky one as it feels like we've got to a point where we've got a pretty settled tight feeling squad with decent rotation. Any new players could upset the balance. However that bit of extra quality could be the difference between promotion and being also rans.

The areas I think you'd single out as potential areas are midfield (could with an energetic player who is a bit more forward thinking), outwide (we've only got three senior players and could probably could do with a little extra quality), #10 (Vydra is red hot but perhaps short on cover or change options, Martin can play there but leaves us a little lethargic in the middle with Hudds and Ledley) or left back  ( could be improved on in terms of quality.

Personally, Id look to make 1 quality signing that clearly improves us with two being an absolute limit. The area I think I'd favour is a wide player who can play #10 if required. Id look for a real match winner, somebody who is going to be the difference between teams coming and grabbing a point or us winning. 

If that players comes in I'd look towards midfield and bringing somebody who is energetic, can play the DM role but can carry the ball and is a bit more forward thinking. 

I agree with most of this apart from bringing in another LB. If there's a limited amount of money available for transfers then It's what we need rather than what we'd like. We don't need another LB but we do need one quality midfield player who is capable of providing a better, more fluid link between defence and attack - possibly at the expense of one of the wingers.

[Carl Sagan]

For those saying we'd struggle if Vydra got injured, of course we would but we do have:

Chris Martin, David Nugent, Darren Bent, Sam Winnall, Andi Weimann, Johnny Russell, Tom Lawrence and some prolific U23s.

If anyone thinks we should buy striker cover I am flabbergasted. How much do you think we would have to pay to get demonstrably better than who is currently at the club?

 

[brady1993]

38 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

I agree with most of this apart from bringing in another LB. If there's a limited amount of money available for transfers then It's what we need rather than what we'd like. We don't need another LB but we do need one quality midfield player who is capable of providing a better, more fluid link between defence and attack - possibly at the expense of one of the wingers.

Oh I completely agree about LB, I was more just identifying it as an area we could look to improve in the near future. Personally wouldn't touch it till the summer though as I don't think improving at LB will noticeabley improve us as a team whereas as I think a new attacking player would.

[brady1993]

3 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

For those saying we'd struggle if Vydra got injured, of course we would but we do have:

Chris Martin, David Nugent, Darren Bent, Sam Winnall, Andi Weimann, Johnny Russell, Tom Lawrence and some prolific U23s.

If anyone thinks we should buy striker cover I am flabbergasted. How much do you think we would have to pay to get demonstrably better than who is currently at the club?

 

Whilst I agree that I would look to buy cover specifically for Vydra, I would look to bring in a clever Wide player who could slot in there if needs be. 

[Carl Sagan]

5 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Whilst I agree that I would look to buy cover specifically for Vydra, I would look to bring in a clever Wide player who could slot in there if needs be. 

Given Lawrence is Rowett's favourite, you'd drop Weimann and Russell (does either of them make the bench and if so who else misses out?) and have no route into the team for any U23s? I can't see anyone of sufficient quality would be available to justify that.

Or if you're buying "cover" we already have huge numbers of senior pros who can't evven make the bench. I confess I don't get it!

[brady1993]

1 minute ago, Carl Sagan said:

Given Lawrence is Rowett's favourite, you'd drop Weimann and Russell (does either of them make the bench and if so who else misses out?) and have no route into the team for any U23s? I can't see anyone of sufficient quality would be available to justify that.

Or if you're buying "cover" we already have huge numbers of senior pros who can't evven make the bench. I confess I don't get it!

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

Let me explain my position a little. My view is that where we could come unstuck in the new year is teams coming to pride park and looking to park the bus. Do we have enough quality and attacking flair to consistently break these teams down? I'm not convinced personally. I think bringing in a quality wide player could make the difference in those games and give us a real shout of pushing for a top two spot. 

From there I'd have both Wiemann and Russell be used as rotation options and for impact off the bench (both would have a birth in the 18 if fit).

It is harsh on the U23s but from what I can tell none are really ready to push for the first team. Last week, with Lawrence out, we didn't have one make the bench suggesting Rowett doesn't think they are ready yet. You also have to consider that we do have a shot at getting in the top 2, what with the league appearing week and Cardiff and Bristol being far from infallible, but we might just need that bit *extra* to get us there and cement us there. 

With all that said it can't just be any old player, it has to be a player who is clearly better than what we have and it has to be a player who buys into Rowett's philosophy. If such a player can't be found then you stick with what you have but if they can it could prove to be the difference between promotion or not.

[Mistaram]

1 hour ago, brady1993 said:

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

Let me explain my position a little. My view is that where we could come unstuck in the new year is teams coming to pride park and looking to park the bus. Do we have enough quality and attacking flair to consistently break these teams down? I'm not convinced personally. I think bringing in a quality wide player could make the difference in those games and give us a real shout of pushing for a top two spot. 

From there I'd have both Wiemann and Russell be used as rotation options and for impact off the bench (both would have a birth in the 18 if fit).

It is harsh on the U23s but from what I can tell none are really ready to push for the first team. Last week, with Lawrence out, we didn't have one make the bench suggesting Rowett doesn't think they are ready yet. You also have to consider that we do have a shot at getting in the top 2, what with the league appearing week and Cardiff and Bristol being far from infallible, but we might just need that bit *extra* to get us there and cement us there. 

With all that said it can't just be any old player, it has to be a player who is clearly better than what we have and it has to be a player who buys into Rowett's philosophy. If such a player can't be found then you stick with what you have but if they can it could prove to be the difference between promotion or not.

Excellent agree 100% 

[RamNut]

I think nugents legs are going.

he was knackered at 60mins v villa and that was after being rested for two matches.

Time to send for mr chinnery?

[Carl Sagan]

2 hours ago, brady1993 said:

Yes to the former, no to the latter.

Let me explain my position a little. My view is that where we could come unstuck in the new year is teams coming to pride park and looking to park the bus. Do we have enough quality and attacking flair to consistently break these teams down? I'm not convinced personally. I think bringing in a quality wide player could make the difference in those games and give us a real shout of pushing for a top two spot. 

From there I'd have both Wiemann and Russell be used as rotation options and for impact off the bench (both would have a birth in the 18 if fit).

It is harsh on the U23s but from what I can tell none are really ready to push for the first team. Last week, with Lawrence out, we didn't have one make the bench suggesting Rowett doesn't think they are ready yet. You also have to consider that we do have a shot at getting in the top 2, what with the league appearing week and Cardiff and Bristol being far from infallible, but we might just need that bit *extra* to get us there and cement us there. 

With all that said it can't just be any old player, it has to be a player who is clearly better than what we have and it has to be a player who buys into Rowett's philosophy. If such a player can't be found then you stick with what you have but if they can it could prove to be the difference between promotion or not.

So you're saying maybe a first 11 of: Carson, Baird, Forsyth, Keogh, Davies, Ledley, Huddlestone, Star Winger, Lawrence, Vydra, Nugent, leaving us a bench of Mitchell, Wisdom, Johnson, Martin, Winnell, Russell, Weimann.

With no room for Thorne, Bent, Pearce, Olsson (let alone Shackell, Anya, Bennett, Lowe, Thomas, Hanson).

Given we'd need to pay around £15m for someone "clearly better than what we have" I just don't see the benefit when players of the calibre of Thorne, Bent, Pearce and Shackell (or replace with others I have put there) aren't even in Rowett's 18.

 

Edit Not getting at you at all, Brady. I know it's a popular view. But I don't see the logic. But merry Christmas anyway!

[cannable]

21 hours ago, archied said:

It's very strange to me that Lowe is touted by some as the best left back at the club based on a handful of first team games and under 23 games , some need to get a grip and judge players over a proper period ,, Baird was dismissed as total rubbish on a few appearances , now you can't get him out the team and is easily amongst the top performers 

You could see how good Hughes was after one game.

You could see how bad Michael Hoganson was after one game.

[Anag Ram]

Think it all depends on who we get rid of and for how much.

If we lose Olssen, Shackell, Anya, Bryson and Butterfield we will have cash to spend on a more mobile midfield option, a left back and perhaps a speedier forward.

The latter could be a young loanee from the Prem especially if Bent’s contract is terminated.

Winnall might go elsewhere as he’s not getting the game time he would like.

However, I don’t get the impression we are going to do much business. Couple of departures for a million or two - perhaps one in.

[Van der MoodHoover]

All of the points made so far highlight how overlarge our squad has become. 

2 points to me come through consistently - the need to shift out a number of senior players and the difficulty in finding value in the January window. 

I'd stick until summer. 

[brady1993]

50 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

So you're saying maybe a first 11 of: Carson, Baird, Forsyth, Keogh, Davies, Ledley, Huddlestone, Star Winger, Lawrence, Vydra, Nugent, leaving us a bench of Mitchell, Wisdom, Johnson, Martin, Winnell, Russell, Weimann.

With no room for Thorne, Bent, Pearce, Olsson (let alone Shackell, Anya, Bennett, Lowe, Thomas, Hanson).

Given we'd need to pay around £15m for someone "clearly better than what we have" I just don't see the benefit when players of the calibre of Thorne, Bent, Pearce and Shackell (or replace with others I have put there) aren't even in Rowett's 18.

 

Edit Not getting at you at all, Brady. I know it's a popular view. But I don't see the logic. But merry Christmas anyway!

Yeah I realise your not getting at me @Carl Sagan ?. I understand and agree with a large part of your argument.

I'm not advocating for sweeping changes or breaking the bank and I won't be screaming from the rooftops if we don't bring anybody new in. All I'm saying is if there is a wide player available who is in budget (possible pending a couple outgoings of players clearly not in the equation such as Anya) and would improve us then well we should look to improve. 

Which would give us a core squad of; Carson, Mitchell, Wisdom, Baird, Keogh, Davies, Forsyth, Olsson, Thorne, Huddlestone, Ledley, Johnson, *new*, Wiemann, Lawrence, Russell, Vydra, Martin, Nugent And Winnall.  Looking to let go Shackell, Bent , Anya and maybe Hanson who all look out of favour and extremely unlikely to play even if a new player came. 1 in 3/4 out would seem about right to me.

That gives us a tight squad of 21 players, with two players per position for everywhere apart from CB (which we have enough cover considering Wisdom, Baird and Huddlestone can play there). I think that would strike the balance between having realistic competition and adequate cover with still room for U23s to augment the squad when injury hits.

[Van der MoodHoover]

16 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Yeah I realise your not getting at me @Carl Sagan ?. I understand and agree with a large part of your argument.

I'm not advocating for sweeping changes or breaking the bank and I won't be screaming from the rooftops if we don't bring anybody new in. All I'm saying is if there is a wide player available who is in budget (possible pending a couple outgoings of players clearly not in the equation such as Anya) and would improve us then well we should look to improve. 

Which would give us a core squad of; Carson, Mitchell, Wisdom, Baird, Keogh, Davies, Forsyth, Olsson, Thorne, Huddlestone, Ledley, Johnson, *new*, Wiemann, Lawrence, Russell, Vydra, Martin, Nugent And Winnall.  Looking to let go Shackell, Bent , Anya and maybe Hanson who all look out of favour and extremely unlikely to play even if a new player came. 1 in 3/4 out would seem about right to me.

That gives us a tight squad of 21 players, with two players per position for everywhere apart from CB (which we have enough cover considering Wisdom, Baird and Huddlestone can play there). I think that would strike the balance between having realistic competition and adequate cover with still room for U23s to augment the squad when injury hits.

I fear Andy Reid has retired 

[RodleyRam]

18 hours ago, EnigmaRam said:

Just out of curiosity to those that want another midfielder. who doesn't play? Ledley, Hudds or Thorne?

Personally I think a midfielder in the Bryson/Hendrick style who could allow us to play old format 4-3-3 if required with Ledley sitting and GT dictating pace. I wouldn't have us playing that every week but I think it could give us a variable might be required in the run in. Particularly if Vydra gets injured or goes off the boil. TH, JL and GT as a 3 would lack a bit of dynamism and our game relies on movement and tempo.

Other than that a game changing winger who can also play 10 in the current system  would be a good addition.

I don't think any incomings are essential and 2 at the absolute maximum.

Out is priority.

[archied]

3 hours ago, cannable said:

You could see how good Hughes was after one game.

You could see how bad Michael Hoganson was after one game.

Oh if only it were that simple ,we would all be managers ,no manager would ever make a poor signing or let a gem go early,

really ?? You can judge a player on one game ?