1of4 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Nice to see the government are scraping the premium rate phone charges that benefit claimants, or scroungers as the right-wing members on here call them, had to pay when calling the UC enquiry/help line. Not so nice to see is that this Tory government are now targeting some of their core supporters, the self employed, the small business entrepreneurs. Any self employed scroungers claimants on UC will now have to declare that they are earning the minimum wage on a regular basis or risk being sanctioned and have any benefit payments they receive being stopped. Looks as if the accountants to all these entrepreneurs will be doing a bit of overtime to get their books in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, 1of4 said: Nice to see the government are scraping the premium rate phone charges that benefit claimants, or scroungers as the right-wing members on here call them, had to pay when calling the UC enquiry/help line. Not so nice to see is that this Tory government are now targeting some of their core supporters, the self employed, the small business entrepreneurs. Any self employed scroungers claimants on UC will now have to declare that they are earning the minimum wage on a regular basis or risk being sanctioned and have any benefit payments they receive being stopped. Looks as if the accountants to all these entrepreneurs will be doing a bit of overtime to get their books in order. More cash jobs! oh what have I started! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 14 minutes ago, Boycie said: More cash jobs! oh what have I started! ? It means the jobs that go through the books will have to be carefully balanced so just enough is earnt to be able to make a claim and get it paid but not to much, so as to stop or reduce a benefit payment. All this while trying to stop any payment of tax to a minimum. As I said busy times for the accountants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 hour ago, 1of4 said: It means the jobs that go through the books will have to be carefully balanced so just enough is earnt to be able to make a claim and get it paid but not to much, so as to stop or reduce a benefit payment. All this while trying to stop any payment of tax to a minimum. As I said busy times for the accountants Surely people are honest and don't abuse these things. That would be wrong and unfair on legitimate claimants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 8 hours ago, 1of4 said: It means the jobs that go through the books will have to be carefully balanced so just enough is earnt to be able to make a claim and get it paid but not to much, so as to stop or reduce a benefit payment. All this while trying to stop any payment of tax to a minimum. As I said busy times for the accountants You think the accountants help to separate cash jobs and jobs through the books do you? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 26 minutes ago, Boycie said: You think the accountants help to separate cash jobs and jobs through the books do you? ? He does not think, just makes stuff up to suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 The main issue seems to be that as UC is done monthly, someone who is self employed could have a 'good' month and get their benefits docked but the following month have a 'bad' month and they wouldn't see a similar amount extra in their benefits. As a lot of Self Employed peoples work is seasonal surely it should be over a longer period of time? I dont however agree that anyone should pick a choose how much they put through the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 5 hours ago, Paul71 said: The main issue seems to be that as UC is done monthly, someone who is self employed could have a 'good' month and get their benefits docked but the following month have a 'bad' month and they wouldn't see a similar amount extra in their benefits. As a lot of Self Employed peoples work is seasonal surely it should be over a longer period of time? I dont however agree that anyone should pick a choose how much they put through the books. Bullseye! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Is the 6 week "waiting period" a delay in receiving the cash, or is it effectively a period for which you don't get the benefit at all (hence is a sneaky bit of cost saving)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 11 hours ago, Paul71 said: The main issue seems to be that as UC is done monthly, someone who is self employed could have a 'good' month and get their benefits docked but the following month have a 'bad' month and they wouldn't see a similar amount extra in their benefits. As a lot of Self Employed peoples work is seasonal surely it should be over a longer period of time? I dont however agree that anyone should pick a choose how much they put through the books. Haven't a lot of football clubs been doing something along those lines to keep them compliant with FFP rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 3 hours ago, HantsRam said: Is the 6 week "waiting period" a delay in receiving the cash, or is it effectively a period for which you don't get the benefit at all (hence is a sneaky bit of cost saving)? I believe the cash is backdated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 3 hours ago, HantsRam said: Is the 6 week "waiting period" a delay in receiving the cash, or is it effectively a period for which you don't get the benefit at all (hence is a sneaky bit of cost saving)? It's a deliberate construct, meant to replicate the world of employment, where you may have to wait a similar time for your 1st paycheck. Obviously doesn't take into account that those in work tend to have some emergency funding set aside, as they're already in employment. Once they've reached 6 weeks of nothing, the cash is backdated. In the real world however, the average delay of payment is 10 weeks, with 8 weeks being the statutory limit at which housing associations/councils should legally begin proceedings to recover overdue rent and evict tenants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 hour ago, reveldevil said: It's a deliberate construct, meant to replicate the world of employment, where you may have to wait a similar time for your 1st paycheck. Obviously doesn't take into account that those in work tend to have some emergency funding set aside, as they're already in employment. Once they've reached 6 weeks of nothing, the cash is backdated. In the real world however, the average delay of payment is 10 weeks, with 8 weeks being the statutory limit at which housing associations/councils should legally begin proceedings to recover overdue rent and evict tenants. I don’t like it and I don’t know all the facts. Bully the most vunerable by giving them less and labelling them scroungers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicME85 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Its a crap system that needs fixing. Doesnt help that some councils and housing associations are trigger happy and are starting the process to recover overdue rent despite the fact they are supposed to take the UC claim and waiting time into account. Thankfully I am not on UC. Applying for ESA and PIP was hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 7 hours ago, RicME85 said: Its a crap system that needs fixing. Doesnt help that some councils and housing associations are trigger happy and are starting the process to recover overdue rent despite the fact they are supposed to take the UC claim and waiting time into account. Thankfully I am not on UC. Applying for ESA and PIP was hard enough. So I am told. I appreciate how its changed to look at if you can work rather than cant. I am a member of a group who have the same type of blood cancer as me and some people are much worse than me and working is a problem. Some of them have been refused simply becuase they were judged well enough to work at the time of their assessment, and the problem here is this and many conditions you do have good and bad days, so yes sure on the good days maybe you could work but as they are unpredictible how can you hold down a job? I dont understand how it works but to me, and you might know better and can correct me, it seems the decision is made by people whos primary aim it is to determine you CAN work, and no doubt have targets accordingly, I dont know how much merit a medical professionals opinion is taken into account. I agree it shouldnt be 'easy' but it should be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 4 hours ago, Paul71 said: Some of them have been refused simply becuase they were judged well enough to work at the time of their assessment, and the problem here is this and many conditions you do have good and bad days, so yes sure on the good days maybe you could work but as they are unpredictible how can you hold down a job? I dont understand how it works but to me, and you might know better and can correct me, it seems the decision is made by people whos primary aim it is to determine you CAN work, and no doubt have targets accordingly, I dont know how much merit a medical professionals opinion is taken into account. I agree it shouldnt be 'easy' but it should be fair. The whole PIP system sucks. I have a mate with a long term illness who applied in January when he was having a relatively good month and answered the questions honestly. By the time the assessor came out in March he was in the middle of a massive relapse and couldnt even get himself out of bed to go to the toilet. The assessor (who works for a private company with targets to hit I might add) passed him as fit to work. Because she said she had to judge him on what he put on the form in January. Imagine that being your job. Utterly soul-destroying to have to say that to a grown man who has wet the bed every night that week, has a wife in tears trying to explain to their 5 year old kid what is going on. I get that those are the "rules" but now he has to appy again and effectively lie on the form by pretending he's fillingf it in on his absolutely worst ever day. Idiotic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 22 minutes ago, StivePesley said: The whole PIP system sucks. I have a mate with a long term illness who applied in January when he was having a relatively good month and answered the questions honestly. By the time the assessor came out in March he was in the middle of a massive relapse and couldnt even get himself out of bed to go to the toilet. The assessor (who works for a private company with targets to hit I might add) passed him as fit to work. Because she said she had to judge him on what he put on the form in January. Imagine that being your job. Utterly soul-destroying to have to say that to a grown man who has wet the bed every night that week, has a wife in tears trying to explain to their 5 year old kid what is going on. I get that those are the "rules" but now he has to appy again and effectively lie on the form by pretending he's fillingf it in on his absolutely worst ever day. Idiotic Thats just it. I myself can have good days, or even a great month, then can hardly lift my head at other times, its hard enough holding down a job as it is. I dont get why a professional medical person cant testify that someone needs these benefits. It is about targets and thats wrong. You are right people will then lie, and then feel like they are comitting fraud by doing so, a bit like UC for SE/ people the measure should be over a period of time not how much you earn, or how you are feeling at a particular time. if i ever go down that route i probably will, then that makes me think im no better than people who defraud the hmrc or claim beneifis they shouldnt. In fairness if i was at my worst i wouldnt be able to fill the form in anyway as im sure your mate cant. I hope it is soul destroying for those who make the decisions, i'd hate to think they think its a job well done when they refuse it for someone they know probably should have it but isnt based on a tick box excercise. Im too cynical sometimes, and imagine that they go for easy targets, when they go to assess someone that can be aggressive, or give the impression they might be if they dont get what they want, do they deal with it differently? I hope not but i cant help but think they might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 7 hours ago, StivePesley said: The whole PIP system sucks. I have a mate with a long term illness who applied in January when he was having a relatively good month and answered the questions honestly. By the time the assessor came out in March he was in the middle of a massive relapse and couldnt even get himself out of bed to go to the toilet. The assessor (who works for a private company with targets to hit I might add) passed him as fit to work. Because she said she had to judge him on what he put on the form in January. Imagine that being your job. Utterly soul-destroying to have to say that to a grown man who has wet the bed every night that week, has a wife in tears trying to explain to their 5 year old kid what is going on. I get that those are the "rules" but now he has to appy again and effectively lie on the form by pretending he's fillingf it in on his absolutely worst ever day. Idiotic Systems a disgrace,how many people don’t get PIP because it’s too complicated to claim and are not physically up to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 All just a bunch of work shy scroungers, according to the Tory far right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 When Joel did his PIP assessment he had just had surgery and was struggling to walk and the nurse who did it had to google it on her phone. When I asked her how she could make an assessment of a condition she had never heard of she said she didn’t know. It took months,if we had not done it for him he would have been unable to do it due to his health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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