Gypsy Ram Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 1 hour ago, RiddingsRam said: I know Rowett has made comments about playing a back 4 but in realistic terms I was sat thinking about it last night ( sad I know ) but I really think our current squad ( that being that Ince does leave ) is perfectly set up for a 3 5 2. Carson Wisdom keogh Davies Anya Forsyth Thorne Johnson Vydra Martin nugent Good to go ? IF we have this then I would keep Cyrus. Looks like there are lots of goals in this line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 On 2017-7-1 at 00:35, Alpha said: Thought we may have had an idea on this with the games he's had. That's what concerns me with Rowett. He's shown no pattern or plan to us in the games he had. When he got the best out of Vydra he dropped him. Changed the system. Surely if you're into something you want to see more of it and who fits it Understand this concern, I found it strange when Vydra was dropped. The only thing I will say, which I mentioned on another thread, is that Rowett has 6 or 7 players available to him now that he didn't last season. I believe, and hope, that last season was all about finding out which players he wanted to keep, hence Hughes not getting in the team. He has also said that he wants to identify opponents weaknesses and exploit them, so maybe we will not just be sticking to a completely rigid system and tactics. How often over the last 3 years have we heard the moan about no plan b and being unable to break teams down. When teams played us towards the end of last season they targeted Olson and Pearce, maybe it is time we started doing the same to our opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 45 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Understand this concern, I found it strange when Vydra was dropped. The only thing I will say, which I mentioned on another thread, is that Rowett has 6 or 7 players available to him now that he didn't last season. I believe, and hope, that last season was all about finding out which players he wanted to keep, hence Hughes not getting in the team. He has also said that he wants to identify opponents weaknesses and exploit them, so maybe we will not just be sticking to a completely rigid system and tactics. How often over the last 3 years have we heard the moan about no plan b and being unable to break teams down. When teams played us towards the end of last season they targeted Olson and Pearce, maybe it is time we started doing the same to our opponents. I just don't believe you can make many changes based on your opponent. I don't think any team finds success like that. You'd need a lot of players well rehearsed in a lot of situations. Fans moan about "Plan B" because they can't get their head around a team losing a few games. Successful teams have telepathy and play on instinct. How can you have that if you change too much too often? Sure, you can adapt within a system but you can't have a tool for every job. A massive part of the reason we struggle to break teams down has been because we're trying to play football with the likes of Olsson, Christie, Shackell, Johnson and Pearce who move the ball on so slowly that a team can just move in shape and keep us in front of them. I mean by the time Shackell/Pearce and Olsson have had an exchange the opposition manager could have ran on and physically placed players where he wants them. They're rubbish for that game. Forsyth used to be a dodgy passer. Next to Olsson (who's passing is accurate but pointless) Craig Forsyth looks like Jordi Alba. Clement's recruitment was crazy. It went completely against his style of football. Don't forget that he talked about having different systems and styles for opponents before soon realising that we looked like a team of strangers when trying something not rehearsed. Rowett may have been having a look at what he can and can't do. Fair enough. I just felt like he found something promising and rather than tick it off on his list he'd want to see which other players work to that system and how Rowett himself can adapt within it. Get some wins. Get Vydra scoring. Get a head start and an idea on what he needs for the summer. Instead he dropped Vydra and the system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby blood Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 3 hours ago, RiddingsRam said: I know Rowett has made comments about playing a back 4 but in realistic terms I was sat thinking about it last night ( sad I know ) but I really think our current squad ( that being that Ince does leave ) is perfectly set up for a 3 5 2. Carson Wisdom keogh Davies Anya Forsyth Thorne Johnson Vydra Martin nugent Good to go ? That looks a good team to me on paper, would be exciting to watch as well. You get a well deserved like for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 3 hours ago, RiddingsRam said: I know Rowett has made comments about playing a back 4 but in realistic terms I was sat thinking about it last night ( sad I know ) but I really think our current squad ( that being that Ince does leave ) is perfectly set up for a 3 5 2. Carson Wisdom keogh Davies Anya Forsyth Thorne Johnson Vydra Martin nugent Good to go ? A manager who has so many fundamentals in a solid back four I extremely doubt will move to 3 centre halfs. I also think with this team that it would struggle to score. Looks fancy on paper but two strikers as mobile as a pig in mud, Vydra would feel the need to be creative too much and fail etc If you have three centre backs, no need for two holding midfielders. I get 4-2-3-1 but we need quality wingers. I get 4-3-3 but no place for Vydra and Hughes has gone. Personally I see Thorne/Johnson being in the middle and then a front four that can genuinely play together, create, attack, have pace and score is required. Looks like we're about to sell the key player in that front four... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 The other thing with throwing in new positions to players is that they usually naturally drift to what's natural. So your 3 at the back would end up a 5 I'd imagine. Didn't we try something like that v Chesterfield in the cup? I remember Keogh being all over the place. His position was the right centre back and he was really uncomfortable with the exposure on his flank. How would Davies like the lack of protection on his left. Would Forsyth understand that he has to abandon Davies a bit and get involved in all the build up. That he has to fill in as a proper winger while also being aware of what's behind him? As a LB you can see what you're leaving behind as you "raid" forward. As a winger you know you have a fullback back there to hold up a counter attack. Not saying it wouldn't work btw. Just saying what happens sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 On 30 June 2017 at 22:24, Parsnip said: Again I'm calling for special pissed up ramblings thread where people can post on a Friday & Saturday night without starting a new topic of mindless drivel. That would be the death of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 3 hours ago, RiddingsRam said: I know Rowett has made comments about playing a back 4 but in realistic terms I was sat thinking about it last night ( sad I know ) but I really think our current squad ( that being that Ince does leave ) is perfectly set up for a 3 5 2. Carson Wisdom keogh Davies Anya Forsyth Thorne Johnson Martin Vydra nugent Good to go ? Thats more like the jim smith system. based on the article posted about Growett's tactical analysis, it would seem that he saw wing backs as a weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 13 minutes ago, RamNut said: That would be the death of the forum. It wouldn't change my style of posting one jot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 56 minutes ago, Derby blood said: That looks a good team to me on paper, would be exciting to watch as well. You get a well deserved like for this. Why thank you sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 4 hours ago, RiddingsRam said: I know Rowett has made comments about playing a back 4 but in realistic terms I was sat thinking about it last night ( sad I know ) but I really think our current squad ( that being that Ince does leave ) is perfectly set up for a 3 5 2. Carson Wisdom keogh Davies Anya Forsyth Thorne Johnson Vydra Martin nugent Good to go ? Sexy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 57 minutes ago, rammieib said: A manager who has so many fundamentals in a solid back four I extremely doubt will move to 3 centre halfs. I also think with this team that it would struggle to score. Looks fancy on paper but two strikers as mobile as a pig in mud, Vydra would feel the need to be creative too much and fail etc If you have three centre backs, no need for two holding midfielders. I get 4-2-3-1 but we need quality wingers. I get 4-3-3 but no place for Vydra and Hughes has gone. Personally I see Thorne/Johnson being in the middle and then a front four that can genuinely play together, create, attack, have pace and score is required. Looks like we're about to sell the key player in that front four... I did state at the start that I knew that Rowett did prefer a back 4 but he did play a back 3 at Brum and burton upon occasion. Plus he's not rigid in one system that he wants to play so could see some flexibility. Struggle to score , your joking right? Box to box runs from Johnson . Pleanty of width in the attack from the wing backs who are both pretty direct. Personally I think that front 3 would work , I think they would all be interchangeable, Nugent s pressing , Martins hold up play and Vydra s pace should be dream combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 20 minutes ago, RiddingsRam said: I did state at the start that I knew that Rowett did prefer a back 4 but he did play a back 3 at Brum and burton upon occasion. Plus he's not rigid in one system that he wants to play so could see some flexibility. Struggle to score , your joking right? Box to box runs from Johnson . Pleanty of width in the attack from the wing backs who are both pretty direct. Personally I think that front 3 would work , I think they would all be interchangeable, Nugent s pressing , Martins hold up play and Vydra s pace should be dream combination. Suddenly,I am looking forward to this season with your optimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 12 minutes ago, Gypsy Ram said: Suddenly,I am looking forward to this season with your optimism. I think there are a lot of reasons to be optimistic Gypsy. I'm excited about seeing something different. We've got a lot of good players and am excited about the ones we've signed. Roll on the 4th August. ( please don't quote this if Sunderland spank us) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 1 minute ago, RiddingsRam said: I think there are a lot of reasons to be optimistic Gypsy. I'm excited about seeing something different. We've got a lot of good players and am excited about the ones we've signed. Roll on the 4th August. ( please don't quote this if Sunderland spank us) . I agree with you. Although I am sad about losing Hughes, it opens up the door for other systems and styles. Teams win promotions and not individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 20 hours ago, Alpha said: The other thing with throwing in new positions to players is that they usually naturally drift to what's natural. So your 3 at the back would end up a 5 I'd imagine. Didn't we try something like that v Chesterfield in the cup? I remember Keogh being all over the place. His position was the right centre back and he was really uncomfortable with the exposure on his flank. How would Davies like the lack of protection on his left. Would Forsyth understand that he has to abandon Davies a bit and get involved in all the build up. That he has to fill in as a proper winger while also being aware of what's behind him? As a LB you can see what you're leaving behind as you "raid" forward. As a winger you know you have a fullback back there to hold up a counter attack. Not saying it wouldn't work btw. Just saying what happens sometimes. Hull played a lot with 3 at the back, so Davies would be comfortable with it. But, like ya say, Keogh, and possibly Wisdom and Forsyth too, would need time to adjust their game to it. Anya played wing back for Watford (and recently for Scotland) a fair few times so would also be comfortable with the system. It is something to think about at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Carson Wisdom Keogh Daveo Fozzy JR. Thorne. Johnson. Weimann Nugent. Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 21 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Carson Wisdom Keogh Daveo Fozzy JR. Thorne. Johnson. Weimann Nugent. Martin. That seems super reliant on Thorne and Martin providing something resembling a creative spark. I'd worry it'd be relatively easy for opposition to snuff out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamBamFan Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Carson Wisdom Keogh Davies Forsyth Whelan Thorne Jota Butterfield Lawrence Nugent ---------------------------------------------------- Carson Wisdom Keogh Davies Forsyth Jota Whelan Thorne Lawrence Vydra Martin ---------------------------------------------------- Carson Keogh Davies Shackell Anya Whelan Olsson Thorne Jota Vydra Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.