Nigel Clough Sacking

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

We are not on about what anyone else has achieved.

 

Well he achieved nowt here so that's ended this thread then!

[Sith Happens]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well he achieved nowt here so that's ended this thread then!

Not really ended it because many would argue the achievement of balancing the books, making us stable while keeping us out of League 1 and then laying the foundations for the next managers to take on.

 

[Mikeyboy1963]

33 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Not really ended it because many would argue the achievement of balancing the books, making us stable while keeping us out of League 1 and then laying the foundations for the next managers to take on.

 

And going on and achieving with other clubs. The achievement of getting a tiny club like Burton into the Championship was immense but keeping them there was unbelievable. Life and a manager's career goes beyond Pride Park believe it or not. 

Lets see how Cloughies apprentice does long term. 

[DerbyMark]

15 hours ago, barnsley ram said:

yes weve come a long way since those days and still got the same team, apart from the new additions who are on megabucks

That's down to bad recruitment, pure and simple.

When Brighton can sign Knockeert (if that's how you spell it) and Brentford can sign Jota, both for a fraction of the combined cost of Johnson n Butterfield, for example.

Clough junior balanced the books, and beat Leeds and Forest, and that's it.

None of the 'bargain's' he signed have got us where we wanna be either...i.e at least where Bournemouth and Watford are.

[ramblur]

On 5/12/2017 at 17:37, RoyMac5 said:

Based on what? We got nowhere near the Prem or even Top 6 with Clough in how many years? That wasn't going to change. How many years did it take Billy or Mac or George?

I had hoped to be done with this,but I don't want it to be seen that I'm dodging your questions.It took Billy 1 year,but then he was allowed to sign a load of players for £8m,with no scratting around in lower divisions.How long would it have taken him from Clough's starting point,and with his restrictions,because that's the fair comparison? I doubt he'd have been interested in the first place.

It took SM the same amount of time it took him not to get in the play offs,despite spending £8m on transfers and hiking the wage bill by (a further) £5m. As above,the fair comparison is how long it would have taken him in Clough's circumstances,and would he have been interested?

As for George,it took him 2 and a bit years.I was a great fan of his,and don't pretend to say Clough is as good a manager.However,I don't think he could have brought in players of the calibre of Tommy Smith and Pesch so cheaply in Clough's era,neither do I think he could have picked up foreign imports so cheaply,in markets that got scouted even more over the years,and with wage inflation over time.

Now onto the easy bit.Nigel gave us gradual year on year improvement,with a 10th place finish in his final season.If he'd been given just half of the extra resources given over the last few years,then he could have doubled his last wage bill,and had £25m+ in transfer fees to play with.Given that he'd delivered improvements against the backcloth of falling wages and with limited transfer resources,I find it strange to think he wouldn't continue to improve with all these extra riches.He'd probably have thought that all his Christmases had come at once if he'd been given just a quarter of what followed.

That's me definitely finished now,because as @G STAR RAM pointed out,this isn't about other managers,it's about Clough,so my last paragraph is all that really counts -opinions either shared with or disputed by others,and nothing's going to change there,even when the post count on the issue reaches 1 billion.

[DRBee]

1 hour ago, ramblur said:

I had hoped to be done with this,but I don't want it to be seen that I'm dodging your questions.It took Billy 1 year,but then he was allowed to sign a load of players for £8m,with no scratting around in lower divisions.How long would it have taken him from Clough's starting point,and with his restrictions,because that's the fair comparison? I doubt he'd have been interested in the first place.

It took SM the same amount of time it took him not to get in the play offs,despite spending £8m on transfers and hiking the wage bill by (a further) £5m. As above,the fair comparison is how long it would have taken him in Clough's circumstances,and would he have been interested?

As for George,it took him 2 and a bit years.I was a great fan of his,and don't pretend to say Clough is as good a manager.However,I don't think he could have brought in players of the calibre of Tommy Smith and Pesch so cheaply in Clough's era,neither do I think he could have picked up foreign imports so cheaply,in markets that got scouted even more over the years,and with wage inflation over time.

Now onto the easy bit.Nigel gave us gradual year on year improvement,with a 10th place finish in his final season.If he'd been given just half of the extra resources given over the last few years,then he could have doubled his last wage bill,and had £25m+ in transfer fees to play with.Given that he'd delivered improvements against the backcloth of falling wages and with limited transfer resources,I find it strange to think he wouldn't continue to improve with all these extra riches.He'd probably have thought that all his Christmases had come at once if he'd been given just a quarter of what followed.

That's me definitely finished now,because as @G STAR RAM pointed out,this isn't about other managers,it's about Clough,so my last paragraph is all that really counts -opinions either shared with or disputed by others,and nothing's going to change there,even when the post count on the issue reaches 1 billion.

But there wasn't year-on-year improvement - end of!

There is no point in arguing what Clough might have done - he didn't do it. You can't assume that with more money Clough would have done better, cos it doesn't work that way. In his final full season the football was dire.

[ramblur]

43 minutes ago, DRBee said:

But there wasn't year-on-year improvement - end of!

There is no point in arguing what Clough might have done - he didn't do it. You can't assume that with more money Clough would have done better, cos it doesn't work that way. In his final full season the football was dire.

I would have thought that when I mentioned 10th finish,it might have indicated that I was talking about league positions.Funnily enough,if you keep improving that you end up in the play offs.Attaching "end of" to your posts impresses nobody. I can't say there's been much to get me out of my seat in the last 3 years.

[sunnyhill60]

1 hour ago, ramblur said:

I would have thought that when I mentioned 10th finish,it might have indicated that I was talking about league positions.Funnily enough,if you keep improving that you end up in the play offs.Attaching "end of" to your posts impresses nobody. I can't say there's been much to get me out of my seat in the last 3 years.

But there was not year on year improvement in (either) finishing position (or points), as DRBee has said.

There have been many games that have got me out of my seat  in the last 3 years but inconsistency has been an issue, perhaps due to the managerial roundabout powered by the Supreme Leader.

 

[davenportram]

6 hours ago, sunnyhill60 said:

But there was not year on year improvement in (either) finishing position (or points), as DRBee has said.

There have been many games that have got me out of my seat  in the last 3 years but inconsistency has been an issue, perhaps due to the managerial roundabout powered by the Supreme Leader.

 

There was only one year when we finished lower than the year before. I suggest you actually go and look up the final league positions.

[davenportram]

Actually I will save you the bother

 

18th  14th.  19th  12th and then 10th

 

so a general upward trend with an anomolyous season. 

 

[davenportram]

And since Clough 3rd, 8th 5th and 7th

 

im sure I made a thread that we were becoming the new Cardiff a while ago but can't find it now. Always flirting with playoffs, but not quite reaching automatics or promotion. 

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, davenportram said:

And since Clough 3rd, 8th 5th and 7th

im sure I made a thread that we were becoming the new Cardiff a while ago but can't find it now. Always flirting with playoffs, but not quite reaching automatics or promotion. 

7th! 7th? Bloody 9th it was this season, and we are falling like a stone. Bloke below told me.

[davenportram]

13 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

7th! 7th? Bloody 9th it was this season, and we are falling like a stone. Bloke below told me.

Haha, I know it's shocking how little we have actually gained for the millions spent.  And I looked at an old list 7th was where we were after 23 games this season.

[Wolfie20]

Yes, millions have been spent and sadly much of it wasted but since McLarens' first spell one thing I've had, going into each season, has been hope. 

Hope that we will make a decent challenge, if not for automatic but at least a play-off position. I have hope that next season we can challenge again but to be honest, by the end of NCs' time in charge, hope had turned to despair and I was no longer enjoying going to Pride Park and was seriously reconsidering whether to renew my season ticket.

I realise some fans wanted him to stay, partly because of the surname but mostly for having restored a level of stability on the pitch during a period of low financial investment and I get that. But attendances were falling, not surprisingly and that was a reflection of the general quality of what was being served up on the pitch. I wasn't glad when he left, more relieved and nothing that has happened since makes me feel any different.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Yes, millions have been spent and sadly much of it wasted but since McLarens' first spell one thing I've had, going into each season, has been hope. 

Hope that we will make a decent challenge, if not for automatic but at least a play-off position. I have hope that next season we can challenge again but to be honest, by the end of NCs' time in charge, hope had turned to despair...I wasn't glad when he left, more relieved and nothing that has happened since makes me feel any different.

Bang on!

Plus with Clough the new season's (limited) hope for success was usually over by Christmas. At least we've had full seasons of challenging.

[DEL]

Don't remember 7th place????

[G STAR RAM]

11 hours ago, DRBee said:

But there wasn't year-on-year improvement - end of!

There is no point in arguing what Clough might have done - he didn't do it. You can't assume that with more money Clough would have done better, cos it doesn't work that way. In his final full season the football was dire.

I think in 16 out of 18 seasons NC has improved league position, so that seems a pretty good indicatort to use.

To say the football was dire full stop is a bit unfair. It was a mixed bag, as it has been since he left with the exception of 13/14. But I will agree for large parts the football was less than pleasing on the eye.

[minesahartington]

38 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Yes, millions have been spent and sadly much of it wasted but since McLarens' first spell one thing I've had, going into each season, has been hope. 

Hope that we will make a decent challenge, if not for automatic but at least a play-off position. I have hope that next season we can challenge again but to be honest, by the end of NCs' time in charge, hope had turned to despair and I was no longer enjoying going to Pride Park and was seriously reconsidering whether to renew my season ticket.

I realise some fans wanted him to stay, partly because of the surname but mostly for having restored a level of stability on the pitch during a period of low financial investment and I get that. But attendances were falling, not surprisingly and that was a reflection of the general quality of what was being served up on the pitch. I wasn't glad when he left, more relieved and nothing that has happened since makes me feel any different.

Over the 4 year at least 6 thousand fans voted with their feet. 

[cannable]

1 hour ago, minesahartington said:

Over the 4 year at least 6 thousand fans voted with their feet. 

I wish they'd stayed away!

[barnsley ram]

1 hour ago, minesahartington said:

Over the 4 year at least 6 thousand fans voted with their feet. 

yes true fans stick with it pity a few of you doom mongers on here dont have the same the same mind set