tomsdubs Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 2 hours ago, Dimmu said: This could be in "why we concede corners"-thread too, but boy he did defence that corner poorly. Not blaming him, he's never been good at those and had to mark one of the best headers in the game. Pretty much wrong side of the man all the time so we are talking about very basics of set piece defending here. Our problem is collectively poor heading skills. If and when Keogh is among our best at it, we are screwed. Shackell, Forsyth and Martin are greatly missed in these situations. One and pretty much only reason I'd pick Shackell over Pearce in these certain games. Just like against WBA, should've been playing against Leicester too. Maybe in replay we have learned from our mistake, they are way too dangerous in set pieces. Keogh was between the goal and Morgan, he was the right side of his man. You just can't win them all. Not sure if you go to games if you refer to Keogh being poor in the air, he's better than most CBs I see play at PP. Not amazing but not bad. Defending is a collective effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 27 minutes ago, tomsdubs said: Keogh was between the goal and Morgan, he was the right side of his man. You just can't win them all. Not sure if you go to games if you refer to Keogh being poor in the air, he's better than most CBs I see play at PP. Not amazing but not bad. Defending is a collective effort. Yes he was. And didn't have a chance. If your opponent is much better in air than you, you don't defence him between man and a goal. Like I said, basics of set piece defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 35 minutes ago, rynny said: We struggled against Leeds though from set pieces and Shackell got beat pretty much every time. That's true. Was surprisingly struggling, just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Keogh has often and will often struggle against a very physical opposition player, it's ok because he makes up for it in other areas, and we don't actually come up against one all that often, but think back to when we played Bolton and he couldn't cope with Heskey in a physical 1-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 24 minutes ago, Dimmu said: Yes he was. And didn't have a chance. If your opponent is much better in air than you, you don't defence him between man and a goal. Like I said, basics of set piece defending. So what should he do then? Just not bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 1 minute ago, tomsdubs said: So what should he do then? Just not bother? Between ball and man as close to man as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 1 hour ago, rynny said: We struggled against Leeds though from set pieces and Shackell got beat pretty much every time. I think we have struggled defending from set pieces all season, gaping wholes all round the 6 yd box during corners in the Leicester game. We do have a great back 4, but sometimes when they drop a clanger we get punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Dimmu said: Between ball and man as close to man as possible. How in the world could he go ahead of a near post run on a out swinging whipped corner? Then after that judge the flight knowing how it would dip so he could time his leap while at the same time watch Morgan. Holy ****. What the hell are you expecting from him there? That's crazy talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Just now, tomsdubs said: How in the world could he go ahead of a near post run on a out swinging whipped corner? Then after that judge the flight knowing how it would dip so he could time his leap while at the same time watch Morgan. Holy ****. What the hell are you expecting from him there? That's crazy talk. Maybe he should be there on the first place? Goodness me, how hard it is to understand he has feet to move? Use his hands to know the distance? I guess you haven't defended corners much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Dimmu said: Maybe he should be there on the first place? Goodness me, how hard it is to understand he has feet to move? Use his hands to know the distance? I guess you haven't defended corners much? You've never played football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethorn Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 To be honest I am not a massive Keogh fan, but the second goal on Friday I bet he himself will be disappointed he did not do better. But to be honest the problem is more due to how we sat back and let them have so many corners. I was already thinking Keogh is doing well winning so many headers at their corners just as that corner came in. The moment we brought Butterfield on for Hughes I thought we would go more attacking, we didn't. If we cannot possibly turn it around to make it more attacking then that should have been de Saert (Or Thorne please) on for Hughes. Personally at 85 mins I would probably have gone for Shackell on for Bryson or Ince. But the argument here is who is best out of Shackell and Peirce. To be honest I think Shackell has the edge but there is not very much in it at all. I do not get to see many games and get a lot of my info from reading (between the lines) on here and I am surprised how much stick Shackells distribution gets. So I settled down in front of the TV on Friday expecting to see how much better Peirce's was, needless to say I was disappointed. I think Shackell tries to do the right more often, but due the age difference it maybe worth persisting with Peirce because a lot else he does is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Keogh and Pearce work brilliantly together. Even when we were a losing team, always on the back foot, they were amongst the best in the league. That in itself is the biggest recommendation. Both of them command respect from players and fans alike. (I am ignoring the tossers who can't see that what makes Keogh risky at times also makes him great ) Shacks is a class defender and I am delighted that we have him to call on when needed. Strong, Great positional sense and a good head. Passing/distribution not always the best or quickest but he is a very good pro. like anywhere on the pitch it is about pairings/groups of players .. You could do FIFA playstation stats on the 3 of them and there wouldn't be much in it but sum of the parts in Keogh / Pearce makes them first choice pairing. Gawd I have serious head on tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theramfan2010 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Pearce is by far the best CB in the league. His passion is second to none. proud to have him at our club. we wouldn't be where we are now in the table without him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Theramfan2010 said: Pearce is by far the best CB in the league. His passion is second to none. proud to have him at our club. we wouldn't be where we are now in the table without him I'd say there's a better centre back playing right next to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 On 1/28/2017 at 11:22, kyle mccabe said: Pearce positional play covering for keogh when needed was great to see and something we miss when shacks gets picked Its the reason Keogh couldnt play with Buxton. They were too alike. We all need the kind of cover Pearce offers to Keogh. I wouldn't want his job for all the tea in China. It must be exasperating at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 9 hours ago, Theramfan2010 said: Pearce is by far the best CB in the league. His passion is second to none. You are confusing 'passion' with quality. Many have also mistaken the two, in folk like Kevin Keegan and Stuart Pearce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 13 hours ago, jono said: I am ignoring the tossers who can't see that what makes Keogh risky at times also makes him great I can't see how the lunacy our center-back is prone to relates to greatness. The primary asset of a player in this position is to be risk adverse. I'm sure the players around him would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 57 minutes ago, unclej said: I can't see how the lunacy our center-back is prone to relates to greatness. The primary asset of a player in this position is to be risk adverse. I'm sure the players around him would agree. Not sure I entirely agree. Yes a defenders first job is to defend but it is the job of the entire team to "attack" the opposition Keoghs, seemingly aggressive forward breakouts from defence have a dual purpose. 1) it nullifies their attack and 2) it starts our attack. He doesn't do it 10 times a game, he does it occassionaly when he as a defender and the captain decides the risks have been calculated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TelTheRam Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Can't really see how Keogh was to blame for their goal. There were other players that should have challenged for it, not just Keogh. Morgan started off on the goal line behind 4 or 5 other players - Keogh was marking him but when Morgan moved out around those players for the header he could only follow him and not get in front as he was blocked. Have a look at the replay and you will see even then he managed to get a touch on it. I'm sure Carson did also - which may be why it looked like Butterfield ducked under it. The big criticism from MOTD was that we left a big hole on the 6 yard line at every corner. Maybe that's something to think about in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, TelTheRam said: Can't really see how Keogh was to blame for their goal. There were other players that should have challenged for it, not just Keogh. Morgan started off on the goal line behind 4 or 5 other players - Keogh was marking him but when Morgan moved out around those players for the header he could only follow him and not get in front as he was blocked. Have a look at the replay and you will see even then he managed to get a touch on it. I'm sure Carson did also - which may be why it looked like Butterfield ducked under it. The big criticism from MOTD was that we left a big hole on the 6 yard line at every corner. Maybe that's something to think about in future. That is where Martin normally is for corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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