europia Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 27 minutes ago, BathRam72 said: Any perspective manager worth his salt will if told by MM at interview "you will do it my way" will tell MM to stick his job. Managers have their own identity and will want to do the job their way. I for one would hate to try and manage with the press constantly referring to your predecessor as the mastermind, or it was such and such's team. I am sure MM is not that stupid that he would stifle his new appointment. Would he??? As with any job interview, the interviewer wont focus on the negative stuff. Give Mel some credit for a tactful approach to recruitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 25 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: I didn't see enough of Guardiola's Bayern team to judge, but Barca were certainly a lot more fluid under him than we were under Clement, they certainly didn't force Henry/Pedro/Messi/Villa etc to hug the touchline when playing out wide. They pushed their backline up much further than we did as well. Actually he did force them players to stay wide. It was only Messi who had the licence to roam because Messi is well Messi. Thierry Henry did an interesting interview where he said that if the players didn't stay wide and in their positions they would be dropped or even eventually sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyRam! Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Or..............how about a 4-1-3-2 Think that would suit us well, I like the idea of Vydra playing with a partner but we don't really have one apart from Wilson right now! Carson Christie Keogh Shackell/Pearce Fozzy(I wish...Ollson it is...) Johnson Ince Hughes Anya Vydra Weimann Bit of quality everywhere Anya and Ince would need to work on their defensive responsibilities but Johnson will always be sitting back and if our 5 at the back can't defend well, we need better defenders This would be the team I'd play anyway, Weimann and Martin can switch based on form though I think Weimann is underrated massively... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutoWindscreens Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 On 08/10/2016 at 19:11, RadioactiveWaste said: "if you don't attack then you'll get the sack, it's the Derby way" "If you hit the boss*, you'll get the toss, it's the Derby Way". *This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, businesses, places, events and incidents are either the products of the author's imagination or used in a fictitious manner. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, DerbyRam! said: Or..............how about a 4-1-3-2 Think that would suit us well, I like the idea of Vydra playing with a partner but we don't really have one apart from Wilson right now! Carson Christie Keogh Shackell/Pearce Fozzy(I wish...Ollson it is...) Johnson Ince Hughes Anya Vydra Weimann Bit of quality everywhere Anya and Ince would need to work on their defensive responsibilities but Johnson will always be sitting back and if our 5 at the back can't defend well, we need better defenders This would be the team I'd play anyway, Weimann and Martin can switch based on form though I think Weimann is underrated massively... I'm sorry but that team looks dreadful. We'd have zero control over a game, there would be massive holes of space all across the pitch and we'd ship goals for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyRam! Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, brady1993 said: I'm sorry but that team looks dreadful. We'd have zero control over a game, there would be massive holes of space all across the pitch and we'd ship goals for fun. It would be good to watch though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 1 minute ago, DerbyRam! said: It would be good to watch though Honestly I doubt it would because we would struggle to actually build an attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 9 minutes ago, brady1993 said: I'm sorry but that team looks dreadful. We'd have zero control over a game, there would be massive holes of space all across the pitch and we'd ship goals for fun. Itd end up not that different to our 4-3-3 anyway, as Anya would get sucked into midfield and weimann ran the channels..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyRam! Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 You a bit negative mate, have some faith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyRam! Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Honestly I doubt it would because we would struggle to actually build an attack. Out of interest who would you play in your preferred formation? I think we would do better than you think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 23 minutes ago, AutoWindscreens said: "If you hit the boss*, you'll get the toss, it's the Derby Way". *This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, businesses, places, events and incidents are either the products of the author's imagination or used in a fictitious manner. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental. You clout, you're out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 27 minutes ago, DerbyRam! said: Or..............how about a 4-1-3-2 This 6 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Itd end up not that different to our 4-3-3 anyway, as Anya would get sucked into midfield and weimann ran the channels..... 4-1-3-2 could (arguably) but seen as a very attacking 4-3-3... Just with your attacking CM being VERY far forward... A little like Bryson was in the playoff final season... I still think the 4-3-3 system is one of the most diverse systems within the same basic shape as we've seen in years... I'm not convinced it is really a single system... When you're under pressure the wingers drop back and make a 4-5-1... When you're attcking hard your CMs advance and make a 4-1-2-3... You can drop the wingers inside slightly if you need to tighten the game and play 4-3-2-1... It's all about how you employ the players and the attitude your instill in them rather than the exact shape they make... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDerbySuperRams Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Who remembers the good old 4-2-4 under McClaren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 55 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Itd end up not that different to our 4-3-3 anyway, as Anya would get sucked into midfield and weimann ran the channels..... Maybe but I think what you would have happening is have 4 players running beyond the ball in Wiemann, Vydra, Anya and Ince. Leaving Hughes to try and build play up by himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Approach is as bigger factor as formation, approached a certain way, 4-4-2 would still be good with our players, just that it needs one of the cms to be the holding security,then the wings, cm and 2 strikers adapt and make the attacking play. I bet a ridgid, joyless imposition of a 4-3-3 could crush the soul of this team as effectively as nigel pearson's 4-4-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 49 minutes ago, DerbyRam! said: Out of interest who would you play in your preferred formation? I think we would do better than you think... Personally right now given the players available I'd go: Carson Christie Keogh Shackell Lowe Johnson Hughes Butterfield Russell Vydra Ince Back 5 - Largely self explanatory. Shackell sits and marshalls the defence, Keogh to bring the ball out of defence, Christie and Lowe act as wing backs to give width. Lowe could be swapped for Olsson Midfield - Johnson is to hold position just in front of the back 4, break up play and pass it simply to either Hughes or Butterfield. Hughes and Butterfield are to push up and camp on the edge of the opposition box and work an opening along with the wide players. Butterfield has been chosen over Bryson because Vydra isn't the sort of striker to drop into midfield and linkup play, so we have less need of a player running beyond him and more need of a second playmaker with a good passing range behind Vydra to thread passes through. Also with Johnson behind them it's quite likely Butterfield's composure on the ball is even more necessary Front Three - The idea I'd really try to get going with these three forwards is complete freedom to roam and interchange with each other when Derby are in possession, the forwards I've picked are with this in mind because I feel each of them could comfortable slot into each other's position. These three I feel give you the best combination of technical skill, workrate and guile among the forwards we have available. Personally I think it's far from perfect. I think in january we need to bring a top draw forward who is particularly adept at linking play up (either bring back Martin or buy somebody new), we need a top draw right-footed inside forward who can play on the left, a left sided centre half who is comfortable on the ball and a defensive midfielder (to Thorne). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 22 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Approach is as bigger factor as formation, approached a certain way, 4-4-2 would still be good with our players, just that it needs one of the cms to be the holding security,then the wings, cm and 2 strikers adapt and make the attacking play. I bet a ridgid, joyless imposition of a 4-3-3 could crush the soul of this team as effectively as nigel pearson's 4-4-2. I actually really don't think we can play 442 effectively right now. We critically lack a forward who can link play, we'd probably need at least one wide midfielder to come in and our fullbacks are probably to attack minded. Personally I also think it's criminal to have 3 quality attacking midfielders in Hughes, Bryson and Butterfield and either only play one of them or play two and shoehorn one into a defensive role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 1 hour ago, cheron85 said: This 4-1-3-2 could (arguably) but seen as a very attacking 4-3-3... Just with your attacking CM being VERY far forward... A little like Bryson was in the playoff final season... I still think the 4-3-3 system is one of the most diverse systems within the same basic shape as we've seen in years... I'm not convinced it is really a single system... When you're under pressure the wingers drop back and make a 4-5-1... When you're attcking hard your CMs advance and make a 4-1-2-3... You can drop the wingers inside slightly if you need to tighten the game and play 4-3-2-1... It's all about how you employ the players and the attitude your instill in them rather than the exact shape they make... Bryson would usually only end up this far forward, when we both attacking and in the final third of the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Personally I think it's far from perfect. I think in january we need to bring a top draw forward who is particularly adept at linking play up (either bring back Martin or buy somebody new), we need a top draw right-footed inside forward who can play on the left, a left sided centre half who is comfortable on the ball and a defensive midfielder (to Thorne). That's the big issue. My suggested line-up at the moment would be pretty similar to yours, but I'd be a long way from happy with it. With your team above, the biggest issue is going to be that the team is going to end up very spread out - with Shackell in there, the backline drops deep to cover for his lack of pace, and the forwards are all very forward thinking and going to be pushing on. And with Hughes and Butterfield in there, there's not really anyone breaking from midfield to support the strikers either - they both like to get on the ball and play, not make runs. And there's no one in the forward line who can hold it up either. So we're going to end up playing in straight lines, with big gaps in between, which makes it difficult to move the ball quickly and we end up in a Clement-style pass it between the back 4 for 10 minutes and then lump it long and lose it. There's also the issue of Shackell and Johnson not being good enough on the ball for a team that wants to play through midfield. I honestly don't see any sensible way of arranging the squad we've got into a balanced XI at the moment. My list of targets for January would again be pretty similar to yours, but I'd be going for a big, quick, powerful winger (think Antonio/Ibe/Adomah), who can be pretty much used as a battering ram if we're struggling to play through teams, rather than another inside forward type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: And with Hughes and Butterfield in there, there's not really anyone breaking from midfield to support the strikers either - they both like to get on the ball and play, not make runs. And there's no one in the forward line who can hold it up either My hope with this is that the midfielder breaking beyond striker won't be as necessary due to the extra running from Vydra and that the hold up play won't be as necessary because of Hughes's and Butterfield's composure. It is just a hope though. 7 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: There's also the issue of Shackell and Johnson not being good enough on the ball for a team that wants to play through midfield. They are and I'd look to replace both ASAP. Unfortunately though we don't really have much choice otherwise. None of the other defenders improve on Shackell's weaknesses and aren't as strong where he is strong. Johnson isn't great on the ball but his ability to break up play is necessary, I'd just have him under strict instruction that he is to sit in place in midfield and move the ball simply into Hughes or Butterfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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