Ideas to make England better again.

[BBG83]

After that shambles on Monday, here's a couple of ideas I have (not that they mean much). Read point one carefully, don't miss my point.

1) Glenn Hoddle. Controversial as he may be, and I understand he is, but for me he is the only man who would take the job and have a philosophy to engrain into the England setup. That's not saying there aren't better managers out there, clearly there is. But not many of them would leave a good club position where they're likely going to be champions league. And if there's a manager that isn't then it's highly likely that they won't have enough experience and are still learning. Eddie Howe for example. Great manager but no knock out tournament experience. Pardew, average club manager. And so on.

If we're realistic we could say forget the next two or three tournaments. Just plain forget them, communicate with the fans and make them understand. We're employing Hoddle to create a system, a way of playing that will stand the test of time. I genuinely feel like he's the only man for the job. Not the best manager out there but the best available and a man with immense football knowledge.

You get my drift.

2) Three foreign players rule - the FA should introduce this rule for the FA Cup (or at least the league cup). I understand that it was a disadvantage to our teams in Europe. And that it couldn't work in the premier league. But the cup competitions are domestic and I very much doubt that any foreign player would mind missing a replay away at Stevenage on a cold night.

Although look at Cantona, and how much he, Kanchelskis, Schmeichel helped the class of 92 develop into players and men through those early European campaigns.

Give youngsters a platform to showcase themselves. Let them learn and try new things against weaker players, stronger players, tougher, louder, harder, more experienced players. All at grounds they hate playing at, on pitches that make things a little uncomfortable (as opposed to youth games on near perfect grass).

But most of all it's a knockout competition. A competition that was once great, and now isn't. A competition that needs some life injecting into it. And it's an environment that will teach the best youngsters we have everything they need to know about skills, pressure, tactics, strength, aggression, etc.

A simple change during a time when everyone in the game is looking for answers to how the hell we change our game in England.

Surely until we find the magic key, we can use our own cup to our own advantage?.

[Rampage]

The people at the FA should be changed before we do anything else.

[BBG83]

3 minutes ago, Rampage said:

The people at the FA should be changed before we do anything else.

True. Whenever you think of an idea you assume those who you'd like to hear it have some idea of how football should be played.

[Day]

Glenn Hoddle is a dinosaur and thankfully FA will never do it, not given the reasons he was sacked for. He might speak well on TV but he's been out of management now for 10 years, 10 years. Even then his last job wasn't exactly a great success.

Theres a reason why he's sat in the commentary box or studio and not a dugout. 

Gary Neville was another hype train as he spoke well on Monday Night Football, how did he do at Valencia? also part of England's coaching team that was a complete embarrassment the other night. 

I'm seeing Bilic being mentioned a lot now as well, to be fair he's did a great season with West Ham but would anyone have suggested him before his appearances in the studios at the Euro's? no.

It's ok talking the talk but we need someone that can walk the walk.

We also need to limit squad sizes not foreigners, hopefully this will have a knock on effect with English players transfers with clubs like Chelsea not able to throw a million here and there on a kid that will never play for them.  

[eddie]

Hoddle is a loony. Anyone who believes that disabled people are paying the price for misdemeanors in a past life is a head-case.

[Dordogne_Ram]

We could try playing a creative player in midfield.  If Wilshere is the best we have, then God help us.

Heard there was a blond lad playing in the Championship.......

[ilkleyram]

14 minutes ago, David said:

Glenn Hoddle is a dinosaur and thankfully FA will never do it, not given the reasons he was sacked for. He might speak well on TV but he's been out of management now for 10 years, 10 years. Even then his last job wasn't exactly a great success.

Theres a reason why he's sat in the commentary box or studio and not a dugout. 

Gary Neville was another hyoe train as he spoke well on Monday Night Football, how did he do at Valencia? also part of England's coaching team that was a complete embarrassment the other night. 

I'm seeing Bilic being mentioned a lot now as well, to be fair he's did a great season with West Ham but would anyone have suggested him before his appearances in the studios at the Euro's? no.

It's ok talking the talk but we need someone that can walk the walk.

We also need to limit squad sizes not foreigners, hopefully this will have a knock on effect with English players transfers with clubs like Chelsea not able to throw a million here and there on a kid that will never play for them.  

I think you're right about the overall squad sizes David, but to do that without insisting on a percentage of English qualified players - or UK qualified players at worst - will make it pointless.  Most of the 'top' clubs will just have reduced sized squads made up of overseas players only.

The plain fact is that only 30% of the EPL players are English qualified and that stat has been consistently falling since the EPL was invented; there's probably an even lower % of English qualified managers.  If you are picking from an ever decreasing pool (and there's no reason to believe that it will get larger) then the quality of player will also decrease, the opportunity for English players to be injured or out of form will only increase.

It means that, like the other UK countries England will have to look to the Championship and below for both managers and players and, inevitably quality will start to fall (despite Wales' relative success).

It's a long road back but it starts, IMHO, with an FA with balls enough to take on the EPL and insist on quotas.  Chances? Zero.

[ilkleyram]

PS Happened to catch Kevin Keegan on some Sky programme today talking about his time as England manager.  He went to watch a Chelsea v Arsenal game - two of our top teams.  There was one English player playing and one on the bench.  The French manager was there too.  He had 13 players to watch.  And its only got worse since.  It's no wonder we are generally useless but with no real prospects of improvement

[Day]

1 minute ago, ilkleyram said:

I think you're right about the overall squad sizes David, but to do that without insisting on a percentage of English qualified players - or UK qualified players at worst - will make it pointless.  Most of the 'top' clubs will just have reduced sized squads made up on overseas players only.

The plain fact is that only 30% of the EPL players are English qualified and that stat has been consistently falling since the EPL was invented; there's probably an even lower % of English qualified managers.  If you are picking from an ever decreasing pool (and there's no reason to believe that it will get larger) then the quality of player will also decrease, the opportunity for English players to be injured or out of form will only increase.

It means that, like the other UK countries England will have to look to the Championship and below for both managers and players and, inevitably quality will start to fall (despite Wales' relative success).

It's a long road back but it starts, IMHO, with an FA with balls enough to take on the EPL and insist on quotas.  Chances? Zero.

Say we limit club squad sizes to 60, 20 players for the first team, U21's and U18's and Chelsea, Arsenal decide to go 80% foreigners...where do the English players go?....drop down a level or two where the potential for first team football is greater or even moving abroad.

Once the big clubs can't go round snapping up all young English talent to store in their training ground complex's transfer fees "may" reduce which will help lower league clubs. Foreigners will also be effected by this and be open to moves down the leagues just for a chance to play in England and impress the big clubs.

[Alph]

Need big changes in mentality.

Go to a Sunday league match of any age and just listen. Listen to what's being said and then post it in this thread.

Some of the coaching is garbage. 

I think as a nation we value many things in football much higher than they should be. 

Fun is very low on the list. It's such an impatient nation when it comes to football. Greedy too. 

We run before we can walk. We're over competitive imo. Our desperation to reach our goals means we miss so much of the development. And then we are so critical when left with a half finished end product. We created the feckers! 

It starts right at the youngest age. The learning age. BEFORE the developing age. 

And The FA in their attempts to pull youngsters through imo haven't gone right to the bottom with it. They're in the shallows still. 

Glenn Hoddle imo is no different from Southgate, Hodgson etc. Their time has gone.

There are some really good English players. Really good. But fast tracking them and then murdering them isn't the answer. And sticking a dinosaur in charge isn't either. 

It's mentality. There's no patience and list what you hear on a Sunday morning in this thread and you'll see why "there's something missing" from our players. 

 

[Cisse]

Give citizenship to a world class foreign goalie.

[Posh Ram]

A winter break would be hugely beneficial imo

[LesterRam]

I think we should allow 3 academy players to start in each game, this rule applies to the top two divisions, we are the most expensive league in the world but this doesn't equate to what is shown on the field.

[Day]

2 minutes ago, LesterRam said:

I think we should allow 3 academy players to start in each game, this rule applies to the top two divisions, we are the most expensive league in the world but this doesn't equate to what is shown on the field.

That's not the answer, you don't see that in Bundesliga or La Liga, you're forcing players into first team football at the top levels which could actually harm their development.

Derby now, which 3 current academy players would you bring through for the first game of the season v Brighton? 

[ilkleyram]

9 minutes ago, David said:

Say we limit club squad sizes to 60, 20 players for the first team, U21's and U18's and Chelsea, Arsenal decide to go 80% foreigners...where do the English players go?....drop down a level or two where the potential for first team football is greater or even moving abroad.

Once the big clubs can't go round snapping up all young English talent to store in their training ground complex's transfer fees "may" reduce which will help lower league clubs. Foreigners will also be effected by this and be open to moves down the leagues just for a chance to play in England and impress the big clubs.

I think we are agreeing.

Say we limit 1st team squads to 22 players (and also give limits to under 21s/18s and below on the basis that future players will mostly come through this route) and then say that a minimum of 75% of the 22 must be England qualified. You could/should go further and say 75% of the match day squad must be England qualified

Immediately most of the players that play in the first team week in week out will be England qualified and not getting pushed out by overseas/non English players.

The practicalities are different - you couldn't make that jump in one season; you might start at lower age levels and build up; there will be (while we are still in it) EU legislation to consider - freedom of movement and discrimination; it might be that 75% is too high and you want to do 50%.  But until you start to force clubs to take on and play English qualified players then standards and range of selection will continue to fall

Similarly with managers - we're scratching around the same culprits.  Until the FA (cos they're supposedly in charge) start to force the issue then clubs will continue to scour the world for both players and managers, to the overall detriment of our national side.

If you're not bothered about the national side then carry on

[Boycie]

10 minutes ago, David said:

That's not the answer, you don't see that in Bundesliga or La Liga, you're forcing players into first team football at the top levels which could actually harm their development.

Derby now, which 3 current academy players would you bring through for the first game of the season v Brighton? 

Zanzala, that youth who plays full back, and Rawson

 

 

like taking candy from a baby

[ilkleyram]

16 minutes ago, Posh Ram said:

A winter break would be hugely beneficial imo

Why, Posh?

People say that our players are more tired - why is that when they play less than they have done before, with bigger squads and rotation at the top levels; why is it when they have access to better training, pitches, facilities, nutrition, lighter footballs, better kit and all the rest of it?

And when would you do it? Pick the two weeks after Christmas and it will snow and frost in February, never mind the carnage with fixture lists, national and otherwise

Derby used about 13/14 players in the season we went up to the old first division in the 60s - we had a long run in the league cup on top of it, played on the BBG pitch, players played with injections and injuries and the net result was that the likes of John O'Hare had difficulties when their playing careers ended.  But players play less now and in better conditions and with better care.  Why would a two week winter break - which clubs would use to take the players off on money spinning jaunts to Asia anyway - be beneficial?

[Gritstone Ram]

Someone asked Bobby Charlton if he thought the world cup winning squad of 1966 would have beat Iceland. 

He said yes probably 1 - 0

Only 1 - 0???

He said we are in our 70's now.

[BBG83]

1 hour ago, David said:

Glenn Hoddle is a dinosaur and thankfully FA will never do it, not given the reasons he was sacked for. He might speak well on TV but he's been out of management now for 10 years, 10 years. Even then his last job wasn't exactly a great success.

Theres a reason why he's sat in the commentary box or studio and not a dugout. 

Gary Neville was another hype train as he spoke well on Monday Night Football, how did he do at Valencia? also part of England's coaching team that was a complete embarrassment the other night. 

I'm seeing Bilic being mentioned a lot now as well, to be fair he's did a great season with West Ham but would anyone have suggested him before his appearances in the studios at the Euro's? no.

It's ok talking the talk but we need someone that can walk the walk.

We also need to limit squad sizes not foreigners, hopefully this will have a knock on effect with English players transfers with clubs like Chelsea not able to throw a million here and there on a kid that will never play for them.  

You have missed my point re. Hoddle. I'm open to other suggestions but I can't think of anyone else who'll go in and try to develop a system we stick to for years.

Hoddle was doing a good job. What he said was wrong and yes, he's up his own arse. I'm not a fan of the bloke as a person but he's one of a few who's gone and played in Europe. He knows his stuff. That's clear if you listen to him properly. He was way ahead of his time 20 years ago so I don't see his absence from management as an issue. And I don't think he's actually a very good club manager short term.

But he will have ideas and plans stored ready to go. I'm sorry but Southgate won't. Billic is a great option but he'll never take it and lead England into a new era.

Until we start producing players we'd might as well not bother with the tournaments.

And you've also misread what I've said about limiting foreign players. I've said limit them in the cup. They'll never change the premier league but they sure can use the cup to develop players.

[LesterRam]

39 minutes ago, David said:

That's not the answer, you don't see that in Bundesliga or La Liga, you're forcing players into first team football at the top levels which could actually harm their development.

Derby now, which 3 current academy players would you bring through for the first game of the season v Brighton? 

Yes but both of the Bundesliga and La Liga tend not to buy titles, of course this would take years to bear fruit but Arsenal could put out an entire team that was purchased from overseas, imagine coming through the ranks at Arsenal and thinking of your lack of opportunity.

Will Hughes is a diamond but do you think he would get this opportunity now after Mel invested, he is a much more complete player than all of our expensive new recruits, same with Hendrick, Southampton is a breeding ground for development and the system works brilliantly because they are given a chance rather than looking to buy...

I feel more pride watching an academy player put on a white shirt than a £20m shop bought, he will fall and kick a wayward ball but we have top coaches to guide him through it, he cost nothing so what can the boo boys say?

regarding academy players Max Lowe, Zanzala and Rawson have all had a good year.