Nigel Clough/Burton Albion/Bris/Ronnie troll fest

[Pearson]

9 hours ago, Zag zig said:

Ditto says it all, like me and my kids who both go to school in Burton, so their mates who support the bigger teams are starting to go down the Pirelli, means mine do too purely as football watchers, as the standard has improved over the years, but our allegiance will always be to the Rams.

Yeah I remember this'd days of big gates 2,000 if lucky, 2-600 or so most of the time. I'd go watch the odd when the likes of Bob Aston were in goal. 

Burton are tinpot, but whoever changed the thread title should have kept it to the Nigel Clough thread, because most of what's said seems to evolve round him, totally undermining the achievement of a bang average squad far exceeding expectations with honest team spirit and work ethic.

P.S Now have a customer number for the Brewers, so saving grace should Rams not go up and Burton do, strong chance I'll get my tickets next year in the big local derby.

Agree with the majority of this.

In my younger days, betraying my age here, I used to operate the turnstile at Eton Park. God,where has time gone.

That turnstile, or similar, is in the North Stand bar if you ever go in. Serve a good pint of Guinness in there even if it is a plastic cup! But I digress.

Some of these players are not ban average though, IMHO. McGory, Mousino, Atkin and to a degree Duffy all could do a job in the Championship. Well soon know!

[Bris Vegas]

8 minutes ago, Pearson said:

This is rapidly becoming a comedy farce!

Here we have a poster claiming that NC, sorry NLN, is inept, only capable of managing at L2, and at best, a mid table L1 manager on the back of other people’s efforts.

Then in the next breath we have a biblical transformation of:-

“I think he will do well next season in the Championship”

Forgive me Bris, but I’m a little confused. What is about to change to merit such a transformation? It certainly won’t be financial resources or the pulling power of a sexy club to attract the required calibre of player for the Championship.

So what is it? I’m really intrigued into your insight as to what NC is going to do next season to turn him into such a competent and successful manager?

Unless of course you knew all along that he was more than competent, and would proven to be so, but you are not big enough to admit it.

Please feel free to ignore, which appears to be the norm, if the question/s is a tad difficult,

Where have I called him NLN? Or only capable of managing in League Two?

I think Clough has very good skill set in terms of player recruitment, building team morale and keeping teams ticking over in their respective division. I've never said otherwise.

I've often said Clough is not a winning manager. He had five years at Derby, losing more games than he won in every season. He went to Sheff Utd, failed to get them up despite being the biggest team in the league.

I don't feel he would ever get a football league team promoted over a 46-game season. As in, he being in charge for all 46 games. But I do believe he'd keep almost anyone up over a 46-game season.

I think Burton have one of the best possible managers to stay in the Championship. I actually thought Clough coud do a job at someone like Sunderland in the PL, believe it or not. Or failing them, at least a Rotherham.

He's brilliant at finding vaue-for-money players, and we had for the large part a great team spirit under him. I think Burton will stay up next season, if of course they are not too far behind in terms of squad quality.

If they can survive the first season, then Clough will keep them there. Think the first one will be the toughest, as their squad looks extremely limited (Championship level) at present through no fault of the managers.

If I was an owner, I'd never put faith in Clough in getting a team out of a division. That's why I don't think he'd ever be appreciated at Derby/Sheff Utd in that regard. Stick him in a team whose sole purpose is to stay in the Championship (or any league) and he'd be a superb candidate.

Teams like Rotherham, Doncaster, Charlton and MK Dons missed the boat with him. 

[Pearson]

6 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Where have I called him NLN? Or only capable of managing in League Two?

I think Clough has very good skill set in terms of player recruitment, building team morale and keeping teams ticking over in their respective division. I've never said otherwise.

I've often said Clough is not a winning manager. He had five years at Derby, losing more games than he won in every season. He went to Sheff Utd, failed to get them up despite being the biggest team in the league.

I don't feel he would ever get a football league team promoted over a 46-game season. As in, he being in charge for all 46 games. But I do believe he'd keep almost anyone up over a 46-game season.

I think Burton have one of the best possible managers to stay in the Championship. I actually thought Clough coud do a job at someone like Sunderland in the PL, believe it or not. Or failing them, at least a Rotherham.

He's brilliant at finding vaue-for-money players, and we had for the large part a great team spirit under him. I think Burton will stay up next season, if of course they are not too far behind in terms of squad quality.

If they can survive the first season, then Clough will keep them there. Think the first one will be the toughest, as their squad looks extremely limited (Championship level) at present through no fault of the managers.

If I was an owner, I'd never put faith in Clough in getting a team out of a division. That's why I don't think he'd ever be appreciated at Derby/Sheff Utd in that regard. Stick him in a team whose sole purpose is to stay in the Championship (or any league) and he'd be a superb candidate.

Teams like Rotherham, Doncaster, Charlton and MK Dons missed the boat with him. 

Bris, you penned:-

"If Clough had stayed at Burton, they'd be a midtable League Two side losing more games than they win every season, playing boring football and quickly losing interest of the badwagon-jumpers who started supporting them the moment they became part of the 92 Football League clubs.

What nonsense.

Clough took Burton up from the seventh tier of the English football league system to the brink of promotion to League Two before leaving halfway through the 2008–09 season when the job was done.

That is promotion after promotion, and promotion agin this year, yet your advocating that he is incapable of advancing a club?

Finally, as somebody who has watched them play this season the football is far from boring, believe me.

[Bris Vegas]

6 minutes ago, Pearson said:

Bris, you penned:-

"If Clough had stayed at Burton, they'd be a midtable League Two side losing more games than they win every season, playing boring football and quickly losing interest of the badwagon-jumpers who started supporting them the moment they became part of the 92 Football League clubs.

What nonsense.

Clough took Burton up from the seventh tier of the English football league system to the brink of promotion to League Two before leaving halfway through the 2008–09 season when the job was done.

That is promotion after promotion, and promotion agin this year, yet your advocating that he is incapable of advancing a club?

Finally, as somebody who has watched them play this season the football is far from boring, believe me.

Clough wouldn't have got Burton out of League Two. He would have had them there, hovering around midtable and consolidating them as a League Two club playing boring football.

He hasn't proved in five full seasons (or is it six?) in the Football League that he is capable of getting a team up. If he showed an ounce of capability, Derby or Sheff Utd wouldn't have ditched him.

Clough has never struck me as a winning manager. Like I said, he has some great qualities, but earning promotion with his own squad in a full football league season isn't one of them.

 

 

[ronnieronalde]

5 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Clough wouldn't have got Burton out of League Two. He would have had them there, hovering around midtable and consolidating them as a League Two club playing boring football.

He hasn't proved in five full seasons (or is it six?) in the Football League that he is capable of getting a team up. If he showed an ounce of capability, Derby or Sheff Utd wouldn't have ditched him.

Clough has never struck me as a winning manager. Like I said, he has some great qualities, but earning promotion with his own squad in a full football league season isn't one of them.

 

 

You also said he wouldn't be able to get them promoted from League one and that he was unable to motivate a squad.

[RiddingsRam]

32 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Where have I called him NLN? Or only capable of managing in League Two?

I think Clough has very good skill set in terms of player recruitment, building team morale and keeping teams ticking over in their respective division. I've never said otherwise.

I've often said Clough is not a winning manager. He had five years at Derby, losing more games than he won in every season. He went to Sheff Utd, failed to get them up despite being the biggest team in the league.

I don't feel he would ever get a football league team promoted over a 46-game season. As in, he being in charge for all 46 games. But I do believe he'd keep almost anyone up over a 46-game season.

I think Burton have one of the best possible managers to stay in the Championship. I actually thought Clough coud do a job at someone like Sunderland in the PL, believe it or not. Or failing them, at least a Rotherham.

He's brilliant at finding vaue-for-money players, and we had for the large part a great team spirit under him. I think Burton will stay up next season, if of course they are not too far behind in terms of squad quality.

If they can survive the first season, then Clough will keep them there. Think the first one will be the toughest, as their squad looks extremely limited (Championship level) at present through no fault of the managers.

If I was an owner, I'd never put faith in Clough in getting a team out of a division. That's why I don't think he'd ever be appreciated at Derby/Sheff Utd in that regard. Stick him in a team whose sole purpose is to stay in the Championship (or any league) and he'd be a superb candidate.

Teams like Rotherham, Doncaster, Charlton and MK Dons missed the boat with him. 

I agree with you here bris ! I've always thought that about clough ! He did what we needed him to do through a rocky patch and that's it ! Weren't burton 8 points clear when he took over from jimmy ? They have declined and I agree yet again that if he had been there all season they wouldn't have been promoted.  And while I'm on a roll of agreeing with you bris , I also agree that he would he the right man to stabilise burton in the championship.  

[ronnieronalde]

2 minutes ago, RiddingsRam said:

I agree with you here bris ! I've always thought that about clough ! He did what we needed him to do through a rocky patch and that's it ! Weren't burton 8 points clear when he took over from jimmy ? They have declined and I agree yet again that if he had been there all season they wouldn't have been promoted.  And while I'm on a roll of agreeing with you bris , I also agree that he would he the right man to stabilise burton in the championship.  

No they weren't 8 points clear. They were 2.

 

[RiddingsRam]

Just now, ronnieronalde said:

No they weren't 8 points clear. They were 2.

 

That's why i asked the question . Hence the ???????? Thanks though !

[Bris Vegas]

5 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

You also said he wouldn't be able to get them promoted from League one and that he was unable to motivate a squad.

I must have overlooked Burton's position upon his arrival. He deserves some credit for getting them promoted as I'm sure some out there would have blown it.

Do I think he has been fortunate? yes. Do I think Burton have regressed under him? Yes. Do I think he would have got Burton promoted from League Two? No. Do I think he would have got Burton promoted from League One had he taken over from JFH last summer? No. Do I think he can consolidate them in the Championship? Yes. Do I think he's capable of getting any league club promoted in a 46-game campaign? No. Do I think he is a far better option than the likes of Karl Robinson, Neil Redfearn, Neil Lennon and Kit Symonns at stabilising a club and keeping them up? Yes.

Make of that what you will Ronnie.

 

 

[ronnieronalde]

18 minutes ago, RiddingsRam said:

That's why i asked the question . Hence the ???????? Thanks though !

my pleasure.

[uttoxram75]

[Bris Vegas]

Just out of interest. Since Clough took over this has been the table over the past 25 games.

Wigan 53 points

Barnsley 53 points

Millwall 47 points

Bradford 46 points

Ssausagehorpe 45 points

Burton 43 points

Walsall 39 points

Rochdale 39 points

Shef Utd 39 points

Gillingham 31 points

Coventry 27 points

That bolded three plus Burton made up the top four upon Clough's arrival. Now, Clough deserves credit for guiding Burton to promotion, but he's also been fortunate that the three biggest challengers after 20 games all went off the boil. 

Not his fault of course... But I'd say it's fortunate those three clubs weren't Barnsley, Millwall or Wigan.

 

[ronnieronalde]

16 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

I must have overlooked Burton's position upon his arrival. He deserves some credit for getting them promoted as I'm sure some out there would have blown it.

Do I think he has been fortunate? yes. Do I think Burton have regressed under him? Yes. Do I think he would have got Burton promoted from League Two? No. Do I think he would have got Burton promoted from League One had he taken over from JFH last summer? No. Do I think he can consolidate them in the Championship? Yes. Do I think he's capable of getting any league club promoted in a 46-game campaign? No. Do I think he is a far better option than the likes of Karl Robinson, Neil Redfearn, Neil Lennon and Kit Symonns at stabilising a club and keeping them up? Yes.

Make of that what you will Ronnie.

 

 

Do I think you have any idea when it comes to judging the merits of a football club or a football manager? No.

Do I think you massively over estimate your own knowledge of the game? Yes.

Do I think you get more wrong than you do right when it comes to predicting the fortunes of said club or said manager. Yes.

Does that make me doubt you when you've been wrong so many times in the past. Yes.

Does it get incredibly frustrating when you change the rules/goalposts to suit whatever it is you've spouted out earlier.  Yes.

One of your posts earlier mentioned the fact if Clough had "an ounce of capability" he wouldn't have been sacked, yet you also say he's got a brilliant eye for finding a value player. Do I get hugely confused at your lack of consistency or your ability to conveniently forget that you praise in one sentence and hammer in the next. Yes.

Make of that what you will Bris.

[bigbadbob]

Why does everyone keep saying the same thing over and over again?

[Cisse]

The name Nigel Clough seems to have the same effect here as the word islam had in the pub yesterday.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

What goal posts am I moving? Burton have regressed under Clough, and they've been on midtable form for the final third of the season under his guidance. No goal posts moving here...

You said NC had Burton playing worse than JFH  (you actually used the term Negative Nigel to be precise). When I pulled you up on this and asked for examples you changed tact and moved on to points accumulated over a spell which coincidentally includes their only real blip of the season.

Let's be honest, we all know that you have probably not even seen Burton play this season and are clinging to your pre-conceived idea of what NC would do at Burton...an idea which is looking very likely to be proven wrong.

[Bris Vegas]

1 minute ago, ronnieronalde said:

Do I think you have any idea when it comes to judging the merits of a football club or a football manager? No.

Do I think you massively over estimate your own knowledge of the game? Yes.

Do I think you get more wrong than you do right when it comes to predicting the fortunes of said club or said manager. Yes.

Does that make me doubt you when you've been wrong so many times in the past. Yes.

Does it get incredibly frustrating when you change the rules/goalposts to suit whatever it is you've spouted out earlier.  Yes.

One of your posts earlier mentioned the fact if Clough had "an ounce of capability" he wouldn't have been sacked, yet you also say he's got a brilliant eye for finding a value player. Do I get hugely confused at your lack of consistency or your ability to conveniently forget that you praise in one sentence and hammer in the next. Yes.

Make of that what you will Bris.

What has any of this got to do with the fact that Burton has regressed under Nigel Clough? Again, trying to deflect attention away from some cold hard truths about your poster boy.

I don't really care what you think of my knowledge on football. Has very little bearing on the actual debate in hand, one you keep ignoring as for some reason you just can't quite accept it.

Changing goal posts, making predictions, over-estimating my knowledge of the game... And this has what to do with Clough's current reign at Burton? You're a clown buddy.

[ronnieronalde]

7 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

That bolded three plus Burton made up the top four upon Clough's arrival. Now, Clough deserves credit for guiding Burton to promotion, but he's also been fortunate that the three biggest challengers after 20 games all went off the boil. 

Not his fault of course... But I'd say it's fortunate those three clubs weren't Barnsley, Millwall or Wigan.

 

There you go, it wasn't THAT difficult was it?

*in the interest of fairness, that post is the best "argument" you've posted on this thread.

[ronnieronalde]

16 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

What has any of this got to do with the fact that Burton has regressed under Nigel Clough? Again, trying to deflect attention away from some cold hard truths about your poster boy.

I don't really care what you think of my knowledge on football. Has very little bearing on the actual debate in hand, one you keep ignoring as for some reason you just can't quite accept it.

Changing goal posts, making predictions, over-estimating my knowledge of the game... And this has what to do with Clough's current reign at Burton? You're a clown buddy.

Now you've admitted he deserves some credit for getting them promoted i have no need to argue anymore.

What all the above has to do with the thread, it's me trying to tell you that you get football things wrong regularly.

The same as you got the fact that Clough wouldn't take them up wrong. The same as your opinion on him as a losing manager is wrong. I'm trying to establish a precedence. If you're wrong before, you're wrong now then there's a big chance you're going to be wrong again in the future.

That's the relevance. I don't like the fact you think you know more than you know. It really bugs me.

If I got as much wrong as you, I'd stop posting.

By the way, he's not my poster boy, I don't have any posters of him up at all, all that shows is your childish immaturity.

And what exactly do I have to accept?

I'm about to be celebrating promotion that's come from a person you claimed wouldn't be able to get promotion.

Accept that.

 

ps a little edit..... anyone who uses the word buddy ever goes straight on my lump hammer list, irrespective of whether they know their football or not.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

Now you've admitted he deserves some credit for getting them promoted i have no need to argue anymore.

I thought it was down to JFH, momentum, good fortune and other teams being out of form?