Leicester vs. Derby transfers

[Guest]

and Nigel wanted Albrighton to sign for us on loan..

[Thierry Ennui]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Just out of interest, what is the point that is being made by the OP?

I just thought it was interesting and somewhat surprising how close we are in money spent, and futhermore I think it's worth debate whether there is that much quality difference between the players or if it's mainly down to coaching and tactics. Albrighton couldn't get in a pretty poor Villa side, after all.

[G STAR RAM]

13 minutes ago, Penelope Pendrex said:

I just thought it was interesting and somewhat surprising how close we are in money spent, and futhermore I think it's worth debate whether there is that much quality difference between the players or if it's mainly down to coaching and tactics. Albrighton couldn't get in a pretty poor Villa side, after all.

It's a good point but let's be honest, Leicester is a complete one off over the last 25 years, I think Norwich were probably the last team to do anything like this.

It's not as if Leicester have not spent big money getting to where they are either. Although there starting 11 may have only cost £36m there was probably another £20m on the bench. And let's not forget all of the money they splashed getting out of this division, players like Matt Mills and David Nugent spring to mind.

[SK47]

I also remember when Leicester did what we have done, they  spent quite abit  in the year they had Sven and they still stayed in the champ for a couple years after. We have the players, Just not the right personnel to manage them.

[Day]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

It's a good point but let's be honest, Leicester is a complete one off over the last 25 years, I think Norwich were probably the last team to do anything like this.

It's not as if Leicester have not spent big money getting to where they are either. Although there starting 11 may have only cost £36m there was probably another £20m on the bench. And let's not forget all of the money they splashed getting out of this division, players like Matt Mills and David Nugent spring to mind.

Hard to say how much they have spent, it's easy to get blinded by the transfer fees which on the surface Leicester look to have been decent bargain hunters

10/11 - £3.2m + 1 free transfer

11/12 - £13.10m + 3 free transfers

12/13 - £4.4m + 1 free transfer

13/14 - £375k + 5 free transfers

Obviously doesn't take into account free transfers are never free and players wages can end up costing **** loads which makes all these comparison pretty pointless tbh.

[nfb]

I would honestly like to know who's idea it was to sign the last batch(this season) of players, was it PC, or CE or did MM and SR have a say or a mix of all 4 ?

What was the thinking behind them, especially the ones who hardly got/get a game ? why do they play some of them out of position, making them less effective and therefore subject to criticism eroding their confidence ? why are we so average ?

Why is this sooooo 'deja vu' ?   will we ever know ?

Tune in next season for the next exciting installment.....

[Day]

3 minutes ago, nfb said:

I would honestly like to know who's idea it was to sign the last batch(this season) of players, was it PC, or CE or did MM and SR have a say or a mix of all 4 ?

Clement would ask for a type of player, recruitment team come back with a choice of players, Clement looks at video footage, possibly YouTube and decides which one he will have. Blackman (I think was asked for by name). Hope I'm not getting things screwed up here and I'm open to being corrected on this by those that went to Moor Farm but Bent and Ince that were already here on loan Clement just gave the ok to.

Don't take any of this as fact until the others can verify this. I've got a crap memory.

[cannable]

On 28 February 2016 at 09:49, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

There lies the problem, we are hell bent (no pun intended) on 1 upfront and that one is Chris Martin irrespective of who else comes in. 

 

Perhaps that's because we haven't signed anybody as good as a lone striker as Martin? 

[G STAR RAM]

23 minutes ago, Daveo said:

Clement would ask for a type of player, recruitment team come back with a choice of players, Clement looks at video footage, possibly YouTube and decides which one he will have. Blackman (I think was asked for by name). Hope I'm not getting things screwed up here and I'm open to being corrected on this by those that went to Moor Farm but Bent and Ince that were already here on loan Clement just gave the ok to.

Don't take any of this as fact until the others can verify this. I've got a crap memory.

Pretty much as I remember it, although he said Clement was 'aware of' the Bent and Ince signings as opposed to saying he gave them the ok.

[Srg]

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Pretty much as I remember it, although he said Clement was 'aware of' the Bent and Ince signings as opposed to saying he gave them the ok.

Yeah, and he did have the option to say no.

[Day]

2 minutes ago, Srg said:

Yeah, and he did have the option to say no.

 

[nfb]

42 minutes ago, Daveo said:

Clement would ask for a type of player, recruitment team come back with a choice of players, Clement looks at video footage, possibly YouTube and decides which one he will have. Blackman (I think was asked for by name).

So Pc asked for all the others new boys (except Bent and Ince,) including Alex Pearce ? i would again love to know what he was thinking... especially after his selection at Fulham !

[Old Spalding Ram]

The figures are irrelevant, mediocrity is mediocrity regardless of the price!  What it does show is that Leicester had a structure under Pearson that even the "tinker man" never tinkered with and the clubs head of technical scouting Ben Wrigglesworth, head of recruitment Steve Walsh and chief scout David Mills are currently flavour of the month having being chased by Wenger..........whilst we had Evans and Mo!

Interesting article in the Daily Telegraph regards Leicesters back room staff, 

"There is no substitute for the experience of men like Walsh and Mills, who have either played or scouted in the English game for decades and have the contacts to match."

"An interesting question would be what happens to Walsh, Shakespeare and Mills when Pearson returns to management. The four of them are close and Walsh and Shakespeare have contracts at Leicester which are due to expire at the end of next season."

.........all of a sudden I'm warming to the idea of Pearson!

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/leicester-city/12156199/Leicester-Citys-linchpins-The-experienced-backroom-staff-who-laid-foundations-for-clubs-unlikely-title-push.html

[Day]

43 minutes ago, nfb said:

So Pc asked for all the others new boys (except Bent and Ince,) including Alex Pearce i would again love to know what he was thinking... especially after his selection at Fulham !

01/06/15 Clement appointed

08/06/15 - Bent

08/06/15 - Pearce

12/06/15 - Carson

18/06/15 - Weimann

19/06/15 - Baird

03/07/15 - Ince

23/07/15 - Shackell

Not a lot of time between Clement being appointed and the signings coming through the doors, now if everything we have been told is true which I have no reason to doubt (I didn't eat any of the free food), not a lot of thinking was done.

[My Opinion]

We have been told several times that the scouts are always on the lookout for players making shortlists for different scenarios, my guess would be some if not all of these players were on the shortlist long before Clement arrived, having been made aware of areas that needed strengthening, Clement was possibly given a list to choose from and sent to the war room with video footage of possible targets. Short while later he emerged with his selections made and Rush went to seal the deals.

Positional wise when you look at last seasons collapse the signings do make sense, I just don't see how that can be seen and replacements watched enough to call in a short space of time without someone advising. Possibly Chris Evans which led to his departure?

Had Clement been given more time with the squad he may have thought we had enough to work with or he was like a kid in the candy store, I'll have one of those, one of those, who knows.

It's easy to see how people have taken the view of Mel meddling with the signings when you look at how quick they all arrived, funny how you look back to July and August barely anyone complaining tho! Only now they are seen as a waste of money, great thing is hindsight.

For me none of the signings are a waste of money yet as they may be used better under a new manager in a different formation, only when they have left can you call it a bad deal or not. Bradley Johnson for example is a great player, we're just not getting the best out of him which we may do next season.

I do find it hard to believe that we would be invited down, told Clement had the final say if it was all lies, especially knowing it would be written online a few hours later. Maybe that's me being naive but I'm sure Clement would have his own legal team out there making sure no porkies are being told.

Just for Toddy I guess he could have been paid off with a nice cheque and gagging order.

[/My Opinion]

[HKRam]

2 hours ago, Daveo said:

01/06/15 Clement appointed

08/06/15 - Bent

08/06/15 - Pearce

12/06/15 - Carson

18/06/15 - Weimann

19/06/15 - Baird

03/07/15 - Ince

23/07/15 - Shackell

. . . .

I do find it hard to believe that we would be invited down, told Clement had the final say if it was all lies

I am sure PC had the final say -- as "final" as Brendan Rodgers on the signing of Mario Balotelli.

This is what Rodgers said about how "final" was his say in Liverpool:

 

"When there is a list of players and the player that you want isn't on that list, you have to take someone. You can't have no players. If you haven't got a left back, if the left back that you want, for whatever reason, you can't bring in, if there is a list of three or four, you are having to take the best on that group. It's the model."

 

Sounds familiar? I could imagine this is exactly what happened when PC "asked" for Blackman and Camara:

Approaching the January transfer window, MM/SR told PC that "budget was available" and asked him if he needed new players. PC, with his job was on the line after the dressing-room incident and the alleged progress review meetings, seized the opportunity with both hands. "There's nothing left to lose..."

So he told the Management that he could use some forwards. He asked for McCormack, and was told that he's too expensive. "What about the Andre Gray guy who caused us troubles the other day?" Still too expensive. Then he was presented with the list that Evans prepared before he's let go, in which there are a bunch of mediocre wingers -- mediocre in the sense that the targets are not better than what we already have. 

But remember, there's nothing left to lose for PC at this point because his job was on the line. So he picked Blackman, after watching video clips and consulting with his old pal who was still a coach at Reading.

 

As for Camara, I could imagine it being a manifestation of how the Management like to pluck ideas from other clubs. Mahrez was the FOTM, and PC was again given a "final say" on whether he wanted or not.

 

To quote Rodgers again on Balotelli:

"We were struggling to get someone . . . . I think the ownership group thought that this could be a player I could develop . . . . Make no mistake about that. You see him on the training ground every day, 6ft 3ins, he is fast, he is strong and he has got a touch. They were thinking that maybe he is a £50m player that we can get for £16m. We can bring him in and we can develop him in the way I had developed some of the other players. So, when . . .  there is no other options, then of course you give it a go."

 

Key words here are "of course you give it a go". Blackman is fast, is strong, had already got 13 goals in the season, and was available "on the cheap" because his contract was going to expire in six months. "Of course you give it a go" -- especially when PC knew that he probably be fired anyway after the dressing-room incident and the alleged progress review meetings.

[Rev]

They both signed before the dressing room incident @HKRam.

[Chris Mills]

On 28/02/2016 at 08:59, Penelope Pendrex said:

Thought this might be interesting. Here are the teams put out yesterday. Values are taken from Transfermarkt.

 

Leicester:

 

Schmeichel £1.26m

Amartey £4.95m

Morgan £0.844m

Huth £3.15m

Fuchs FREE

Mahrez £0.375m

Drinkwater £0.675m

Kante £6.75m

Albrighton FREE

Okazaki £8.25m

Vardy £0.930m

Subs:

Ulloa £7.59m

King ACADEMY

Schlupp ACADEMY

Total £34.77m

 

Derby:

 

Carson '?' (this is rare on Transfermarkt) Let's say £500k

Christie £0.083m

Keogh £0.975m

Shackell £3.15m

Olsson £0.495m

Thorne £1.73m

Hendrick ACADEMY

Butterfield £4.13m

Johnson £6.08m

Martin FREE

Russell £0.659m

Subs:

Ince £5.03m

Weimann £2.85m

Blackman £2.55m

Total: £28.23m

The only thing I took away from this is how shocked I was that we got Christie for just 80k! Ridiculous. 

My favourite Derby player at the minute.

[McMuffin]

52 minutes ago, Chris Mills said:

The only thing I took away from this is how shocked I was that we got Christie for just 80k! Ridiculous. 

My favourite Derby player at the minute.

Great mcclaren signing!

[archied]

I really think we have to hold off on any judgements re new signings,, it's is clear that 98% of our players old and new are almost certainly unmotivated and certainly totally disorganised in terms of being a football team,,, there are good players at Derby county capable of performing at the top of this level and some possibly above this level in the prem,,, I for one will hold fire until a real manager is installed ,,, you can argue that the wassell appointment causes less ripples and should by virtue of him being at the club already give more chance of bringing faster improvement but for me it does not work like that , if a Pearson ,moyes,Rogers , warburton or any other you care to name had been brought in right away or is brought in now then these players know this is the manager and we have to play for him and do things his way ,,,with wassel they have the youth team coach on a trial period till the end of the season, and a clear message from Mel promotion this season is not a priority,,, it's a recipie for exactly what we have now, demotivated players, unhappy confused fans and a club in some kind of weird twilight limbo land whe it should be focused on promotion given its position in the table and squad of players,,, I was so pleased and excited when Mel bought the club and still believe he will do fantastic stuff for Derby county but he has made a right old clusterfuck of this season and needs to move quickly to right things,, also he really needs to come out and give the fans something to look towards ,,, there is a distinct lack of clear leadership at the top with a temporary manager and fans feel there is no direction and we are drifting ,,,,,, we are badly in need of some hope ,,, this is our third season of promise and excitement that turns to rat **** , we could do with a bit of something to look forward to to get us through this season 

[eddie]

3 hours ago, HKRam said:

I am sure PC had the final say -- as "final" as Brendan Rodgers on the signing of Mario Balotelli.

This is what Rodgers said about how "final" was his say in Liverpool:

 

"When there is a list of players and the player that you want isn't on that list, you have to take someone. You can't have no players. If you haven't got a left back, if the left back that you want, for whatever reason, you can't bring in, if there is a list of three or four, you are having to take the best on that group. It's the model."

 

Sounds familiar? I could imagine this is exactly what happened when PC "asked" for Blackman and Camara:

Approaching the January transfer window, MM/SR told PC that "budget was available" and asked him if he needed new players. PC, with his job was on the line after the dressing-room incident and the alleged progress review meetings, seized the opportunity with both hands. "There's nothing left to lose..."

So he told the Management that he could use some forwards. He asked for McCormack, and was told that he's too expensive. "What about the Andre Gray guy who caused us troubles the other day?" Still too expensive. Then he was presented with the list that Evans prepared before he's let go, in which there are a bunch of mediocre wingers -- mediocre in the sense that the targets are not better than what we already have. 

But remember, there's nothing left to lose for PC at this point because his job was on the line. So he picked Blackman, after watching video clips and consulting with his old pal who was still a coach at Reading.

 

As for Camara, I could imagine it being a manifestation of how the Management like to pluck ideas from other clubs. Mahrez was the FOTM, and PC was again given a "final say" on whether he wanted or not.

 

To quote Rodgers again on Balotelli:

"We were struggling to get someone . . . . I think the ownership group thought that this could be a player I could develop . . . . Make no mistake about that. You see him on the training ground every day, 6ft 3ins, he is fast, he is strong and he has got a touch. They were thinking that maybe he is a £50m player that we can get for £16m. We can bring him in and we can develop him in the way I had developed some of the other players. So, when . . .  there is no other options, then of course you give it a go."

 

Key words here are "of course you give it a go". Blackman is fast, is strong, had already got 13 goals in the season, and was available "on the cheap" because his contract was going to expire in six months. "Of course you give it a go" -- especially when PC knew that he probably be fired anyway after the dressing-room incident and the alleged progress review meetings.