davenportram Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I mentioned this in my bring back Jake thread, but this isn't about Jake. I have read a few times on here that (paraphrasing) Brentford gave us the initiative by sitting too deep. I have also read that people dont like the long passes to the wings (and against MK dons we played hoofball) now here is my point. The long passes to the wings were a tactic used under Mclaren in our great spells. Yet we have not used it all season until the past two games. Its going to take a few games to get the players used to doing it again so some passes will go astray or be made at the wrong times. But by using it the opposition are forced to sit deeper to protect against it working, creating space in midfield. Perhaps the "hoofball" claims about MK Dons was the team trying something new after 3 days training, and didn't get it right. Maybe today is a sign of improvement in implementing the tactic. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Certainly is a good thing if we mix it up and are able to do both,, makes us less predictable and harder to defend against and as you say if we also use it to get up field at times and then push up and press the opposition in their half ,,,, God I'm so pleased to see the back of clement and the slow slow no risk football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Answered this in the wrong thread I think. There were a few occasions yesterday when long straight down the line balls just sailed into load's of space. Particularly on Johnsons wing. Nothing wrong in principle with it, but needs to be accurate ie to where we have a player to keep the opposition guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheltenhamRam Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Leicester seem to do it OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 54 minutes ago, HantsRam said: Answered this in the wrong thread I think. There were a few occasions yesterday when long straight down the line balls just sailed into load's of space. Particularly on Johnsons wing. Nothing wrong in principle with it, but needs to be accurate ie to where we have a player to keep the opposition guessing. I think the more we do it the better we will become at doing it. Those wasted balls you describe could be a symptom of unfamiliarity with the system, timing the pass wrong, over hitting, etc... It will improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 25 minutes ago, CheltenhamRam said: Leicester seem to do it OK do what? Long passes to players in space behind the opposition, yes they do. Vardy giving that option forces defenses to sit back a little creating space between opponents midfield and defense to be exploited on the break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, davenportram said: I think the more we do it the better we will become at doing it. Those wasted balls you describe could be a symptom of unfamiliarity with the system, timing the pass wrong, over hitting, etc... It will improve. It's better when pinged out from the centre backs. Bucko was very good at it. Shackell seems to dwell too long at present which probably also reduces it's effectiveness as a tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Interestingly and as a complete aside the sky sports stats had 356 passes in total in our match. Which is almost exactly half of the 701 passes in the Burnley Rotherham game. We passed just over 200 times with 150 for Brentford. Our total sounds quite low compared to what I remember from the Clement games which does suggest dw is altering the style a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanoakaram4life Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Very interesting thread this. Long passes are vital in the champ! Some of our best attacks under Maclaren came with Grant chipping the ball to Forsyth who would head in field to Bryson, thus starting the attack. This went out of the window under Cement resulting in teams getting settled and organised from our goal kicks. However, there is a difference between "hoof ball" and astute long passes. Its about getting the balance right and you've got to give Wassall credit for implementing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Nick Blackmans long pass after Carsons brilliant save along with Ince made Chris Martins goal but his short pass / tackle made Hendricks goal. Short passes and long passes both have their place . Its a balance you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 11 minutes ago, curtains said: Nick Blackmans long pass after Carsons brilliant save along with Ince made Chris Martins goal but his short pass / tackle made Hendricks goal. Short passes and long passes both have their place . Its a balance you need. true, a balance that we may find in the next few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 13 minutes ago, curtains said: Nick Blackmans long pass after Carsons brilliant save along with Ince made Chris Martins goal but his short pass / tackle made Hendricks goal. Short passes and long passes both have their place . Its a balance you need. I agree but Nick Blackman's could hardly be described as a long pass. Ince was only just ahead of him and Blackman knocked it into the space Ince was running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Just now, Kernow said: I agree but Nick Blackman's could hardly be described as a long pass. Ince was only just ahead of him and Blackman knocked it into the space Ince was running Suppose I just wanted to get Blackman some credit but it was a whole team performance that got us the victory yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 It was so near the end of the game that Blackman could easily have put it in row Z. But he chose not to. A brownie point there for him, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram a lamb a ding dong Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Good thread. Good points. Imo football under Clement was slow dull and predictable. Once teams sussed us we were doomed. his factics may work at the top sides in Europe but Championship football is about power and pace; two things he negated to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramos Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I don't see any problem with playing the long ball, as long as its got purpose and an intended target rather than hit and hope, its fine by me. I think Ramage said Keogh played a long one yesterday which just went too far for Russell but they said it would have been a superb ball if it had landed a few feet closer. I particularly remember Keogh playing a cross field long ball at Wolves away last season which landed right at Forsyths feet, was a brilliant ball. Hopefully we will start to take a few more risks in the final third rather than continue to pass in front of the oppositions back 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, Ramos said: I don't see any problem with playing the long ball, as long as its got purpose and an intended target rather than hit and hope, its fine by me. I think Ramage said Keogh played a long one yesterday which just went too far for Russell but they said it would have been a superb ball if it had landed a few feet closer. I particularly remember Keogh playing a cross field long ball at Wolves away last season which landed right at Forsyths feet, was a brilliant ball. Hopefully we will start to take a few more risks in the final third rather than continue to pass in front of the oppositions back 4. Ramage has retired but is doing ok on RD lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramos Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 1 minute ago, curtains said: Ramage has retired but is doing ok on RD lol I think you may have misread haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 One of Forsyth's strengths was taking a ball down that was travelling fast and fairly high. His height, speed, long legs and ability to control the ball combined to make a player who was a superb long ball target. This allowed passes to be banged out to him that most players wouldn't be able to do anything with. We have missed Forsyth a lot this season. At least in Olsson we seem to have a player with athleticism and attacking intent, so we might be able to get back some of our lost width. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, Ramos said: I think you may have misread haha I must of but seriously Keogh sometimes hits long passes and they get cut out or are over hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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