Does he go?

[Alph]

1 hour ago, cannable said:

We're too slow and passing it out from the back. Shackell's the main culprit, he's soooo slow on the ball. His passes have absolutely no zip on them whatsoever, barring those cleverly disguised reverse passes to Thorne. He has an opportunity to bring it out? Dilly-dallies.  We need to get it forward as quickly as possible to make sure it doesn't come back. Did you know that against Preston Warnock made 109 passes (one-hundred and nine)? Those are stats you should ideally be getting from top midfielders, not your left backs.

Something that worries me is that we're lacklustre in attack. We have no runners. It seems our main form of attack is to cross the ball. We made 31 crosses against Preston. After the Burnley game he put the result down to how each team defended - "we peppered their box with cross after cross after cross and they defended their area very well". In this division, defenders will eat aerial bombardments for breakfast. Defenders like dealing with this form of attack. Here's an extract of a BBC article following Manchester United drawing 2-2 with Fulham, a game in which they made 81 cross.

            'The 6ft 7in defender, who played 10 times in the Conference for Darlington in 2011, added:        

"We knew that was going to happen and I was happy for them to play like that."

 

                Fulham boss Rene Meulensteen had described United's style as "straightforward".'

 

We need to be more inventing with our attacking play. Especially considering our 'target man's' 5"10.  We tried to counteract this against Preston. When the ball was on our left-hand side, our left-winger Blackman was getting into the box, with Butterfield drifting wide to whip one in (Butters made nine crosses). Because of his legs going, Warnock wasn't able to get forward after around the 50 minute mark and Hendrick was having to support Butterfield! Our left-winger was in the box, waiting for a cross from a left-hand side, whilst our two central midfielders worked to whip one in, utter madness! As good as Warnock's been, this can't continue, Olsson must start.

 

In terms of our right-hand side, Ince was receiving the ball, taking it and two men along with it inside and creating room for Christie. Often though rather than looking to take the ball to the by-line and looking to cut one back, Christie was crossing from deep or cutting inside towards the congested area. Again, madness!

 

We don't make third-man runs like we used to. They were effective. One was effective against Man United. I think they're why people liked Dawkins. He'd cut inside, dragging a defender with him. Bryson would make a run ahead of him looking for the through ball and either Wisdom or Fozzy would bomb on the overlap. Chances are this would leave one player in massive amounts of space.  On the other flank, Hughes would drift into the channels, essentially taking up Dawkins' role. Occasionally Martin would drift into the channels as well. I've trawled through the archives to find examples of this.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=4lpdZ92E7ok … Look at our goal here. Bryson further forward than a slightly narrow Dawkins. Forsyth bombing on outside him.

 

Ward hitting the crossbar comes from a third man run. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4ADzEcfoTs …

youtube.com/watch?v=YEEaRlReYs4 … Bryson to Martin - third man run from Fozzy off of Martin allows him to lay it off to him to square across face. Also - Dawkins' shot from distance, Bryson's third man run created space for him to shoot, should have passed to Fozzy.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=zh9jLDyRUVE … Second goal. Even before Russell's passed to Martin Bryson's making a run.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=39ZkblFtyik … Combination to get Ward around the back for the first.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=2akR4NsAE-o … Hendrick's run for Martin's miss. Bryson's run for his goal. Christie's run for Martin's first.

 

We ended up in a lot of situations where we could just smash it across the face of goal and somebody would have had a tap in. Third man runs are so effective at getting us towards the by-line.

 

In terms of Martin's role to our attacking play, he's actually playing a lot further forward than he used to. Here are a few examples of him in action in a few of our team goals in recent seasons, notice how deep he is;

 

youtube.com/watch?v=hgsvPHc-9Po … Second goal, look how many players we have AHEAD of Martin.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=mOTXiZxoM7g … FIVE players AHEAD of Martin for our fourth here.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=tlWPJeMr1c8 … Hendrick, third man run for the team goal, Martin heavily involved in the build up.

 

The movement, the one touch stuff, it's just not there anymore.

 

I don't totally blame Clement to be honest. He wants us to have a different style of play from recent seasons. He wants us as more of a Burnley or a Boro and I think he's been given the funds to try and mould the team in this way. I now think we have half a squad suited to his style of football and half a squad suited to Our Nige's/McClaren's. I think he'd have had a better chance at succeeding at a different club.

 

I really, really want him to succeed. He's an honest bloke and I like him. If he could somehow adopt our approach to going forward that we had under McClaren and his approach to defence we'd really be on to a winner. Hull away gives me a lot of hope that he CAN do it.  

 

The best post.

Agree with every single word. It's spot on. 

And if we are going through a transition then we should be patient. We won't be because "THE SUPER PREMIER LEAGUE" and we've spent so much money. But money buys players not teams. 

Mel Morris did also say that Clement is here to stay and build and develop and improve over time. He said promotion is to be the result of that. It was Clement that said it was the immediate objective. 

It's frustrating. Having seen the exciting free flowing stuff come so close. Seeing it pulled apart for something slower and more methodical at great cost. 

Prefer the way we were. Ah well.

[HKRam]

2 hours ago, cannable said:

I don't totally blame Clement to be honest. He wants us to have a different style of play from recent seasons. He wants us as more of a Burnley or a Boro and I think he's been given the funds to try and mould the team in this way. I now think we have half a squad suited to his style of football...

I am sorry but I disagree.

Do we want a manager with a preconceived notion of football who tries to change everything to suit that (including buying a whole new team)? Or do we want a manager who devices tactics based on our strengths and weaknesses? 

A successful manager would assess his squad, sees what the squad is capable and incapable of doing, and then device a style of play that he deems suitable. Our main striker cannot run and cannot jump, but can create space and is skillful? And we have midfielders who can run and move into channels? Well, we should keep possession in our own half and start to make crosses from deep once in a while.  Let's not do that play-beyond-Martin stuff because that would expose us to counterattack. 

That's nonsense. 

I know many people here dislike McClaren after what happened last year. But in hindsight, he probably is a tactical genius for this play-beyond-Martin style of play! Plus he is obviously much better than PC in man management and keeping us as a tight-knitted team. 

 

[Dimmu]

After last night I was expecting meltdown but not this bad.

Get a grip people.

[TroyDyer]

I think we'll lose at Fulham and he'll go. 

Normally even when things aren't going well you get a "well I can see what he is trying to do"...but I haven't got a scooby, and more worryingly, I don't think he does either. 

[Mafiabob]

Hilarious.... Just Hilarious

[eddie]

8 hours ago, GeneralRam said:

I did it on Football Manager.

When you/ve done it with Ssausagehorpe, we'll talk

[IlsonDerby]

7 hours ago, curb said:

Someone said on here last week that if we don't go up he'll be grinning to himself at our fans in melt down.

 

I tend to agree with him. Derby fans deserve **** all.

We don't expect too much. We expect a team with our resources to play good football. The football is dour. We were more attacking under Clough - that's how bad I think it's got.

[eddie]

7 hours ago, YouRams said:

Pearson is not the answer, the spine of Leicesters team is the same team he nearly took back down. He gets us out the championship and then what? One step at a time yes but sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture. 

 

After Wembley and two successive meltdowns, is there a bigger picture?

[Alph]

When we were playing good stuff under Mac there was moaning. 

We drew 3-3 at Birmingham and there were dummies spat out all over the place.

And after the defeat at Elland Rd, the close call v Southport, the Chesterfield game etc.

Don't forget Keogh's missus got so much grief. As did Keogh

Dawkins was booed. 

Every bit as expectant as the Newcastle fans we tear into. 

And the Clough time was the same. Loads of booing in his time. 

It all proves that whatever the cost of the team, whatever half of the league we're in and however many years we've not been in the top flight we "belong" in... We expect more. We have never accepted the brutal truth that all other clubs see us as, we're just anot her 2nd tier side. No bigger or badder than Boro. Nobody remembers our Jim Smith days. Why would they when Portsmouth, Stoke, Wigan, Fulham and other 'lesser' clubs have eclipsed what we think is where we should be. 

When we're turning our noses up at Wigan's attendance while they're playing in cup finals and being in the top flight for a decade. 

When we're moaning about boring WBA clogging up the PL like we would be in there tearing it up. 

Our last visit to the PL was hilarious to other supporters and they won't have a clue who Jim Smith is. 

Not meaning to put the club down. I loved the good times. But it's time to let go of the club we think we should be and put the recent efforts onto a realistic scale. 

Never ever ever should Newcastle fans get mocked by us for having ambitions mixed up with capabilities. 

[Gritstone Ram]

I can't see 24k season ticket renewals this season and judging at the price hike between a multi season and a new one some people will pick and choose the games rather than watch the pass around in your own half training moves that doesn't even result in a shot. I think the whole coaching team is to blame. How can people coach such boring no end product rubish.

[Rammy1]

5 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

My word a lot of fans need to take a very long hard look at themselves. I'm completely happy to give him at least until next Christmas. There's a long way to go. At times this season we've played really well and looked so much more solid than the defence of the last two years. We need to find the right formula to start winning again, but I expect that to happen soon, and to go on another run. Unless the Chairman is as bonkers as some of you.

Of course Clement stays.

Jesus. What football are u watching. Are u deluded. 

Not winning. Ok. I can except that but way we play is dross. Wake up. And that is down to him. We haven't played well all season only only but a few if you really look at it. Good footballer don't ply like this 

[Brammie Steve]

Tommy Docherty? (Oh, OK! 'Arry Redknapp)

A newbie, totally untried at this level (again!!)?

Guardiano (no thanks, just read Zlatan's book!)

Stick with Laptop? (May as well!)

If all else fails....

Have a word with Moyes or Pearson I reckon. 

Glad i) it's not up to me.

ii) It's not my money!

[Ashz09]

Everyone can see it at the moment it's been happening a while. The other team comes to defend. We get a chance to break or run at people we never take it we go back.

 

I like Clement but last night was the 1st time I really disagreed with him. He said he wants to play his way and the fans felt made there feelings known and he's going to stick to his plan of retaining the ball and if no pass is on go back.. Which is fair enough but there is never a pass on and we give teams a chance to get there shape back (Which is like Clement said 5-4-1).

 

We've never really beat these teams even the McLaren days we struggled (Wigan any one? he set the blue print!) Boro get the same treatment. 

[Mostyn6]

8 hours ago, YouRams said:

Pearson is not the answer, the spine of Leicesters team is the same team he nearly took back down. He gets us out the championship and then what? One step at a time yes but sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture. 

 

You'd turn down promotion because the manager that gets you up might struggle to keep you up?

Have a look at the teams we should be emulating ffs! Swansea, Southampton, Palace, Watford ALL changed their manager once up. There's no reason we cannot do the same thing.

[SIWY]

Pearson DID manage to keep them up!!

[SIWY]

I don't like loads of chopping and changing but it's a results driven business and when £25m is being spent then I think top 2 should be a minimum... At this rate we won't get top 6!

[toddy]

He is judged by results, regardless of our performances.

He inherited a very good team fro the championship we have added millions of pounds worth of talent, but are no better than this time last season.

Gave him time some say he's new in the job, err no, Mel brought him in because of what his has done in the past, new to the championship yes, agreed. But hey if he cannot get this team promoted with the current quality of players we have - he will never do it.

Every team goes through a blip, those at the top of the league it usually lasts couple of games. Ours has gone on now for 6 weeks and although some might say its only a blip and we'll turn it around [that's called faith], for me its gone on far too long and the alarming thing is our performances are awful, not improving and the players confidence is shot.

How many times have we played well for 90 mins this season, Wolves and Hull? And this is out of 30 games - ladies and gentleman the writing was on the wall along time ago [possibly pre season], but we all brought into the hype Paul Clement Real Madrid, Chelsea, PSG.

He may be a great No2, unfortunately there is nothing now that I have seen that says he'll be a half decent no1 let alone a great one.

Utd had a very similar situation a few years back with Moyles

Mel, are you really sure we are improving, are you sure we are better than this time last season, is he really the right man to get us up?

Time to say, it was always going to be a gamble, but its not worked out for him with Derby County, he does seem a very nice bloke, but unfortunately he is not up to the job.

Bring somebody in that can get us a play off promotion spot, we do have the players capable!

 

[davenportram]

I went on record with doubts early in pre-season, and said id give him time. For me time us up. Keeping doing the same thing hoping for different results is mindless.

[Srg]

Shudder to think the payout for sacking. 

[davenportram]

Just now, Srg said:

Shudder to think the payout for sacking. 

doubt it would be more Tha the rewards for promotion.