Ince, Bent, Martin

[G STAR RAM]

23 minutes ago, eddie said:

Why so many posts saying that Brizzle were rubbish and that no praise is warranted towards Derby because they are a team we should be turning over easily?

Bristol City beat Middlesborough and drew with Hull, therefore they are no mugs. Some of you apply double standards in order to justify your own blinkered opinions. For goodness sake, stop the bloody hand-wringing for once.

Having watched Bristol on tv a few times I was looking forward to them coming to take us on in a game of football.

Cotterill decided against this and went much more defensive than they have played when I have watched them, it failed miserably.

I would love to say we played amazing football and that is what led to the 4-0 scoreline but that is not really what I think, don't see the problem.

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Having watched Bristol on tv a few times I was looking forward to them coming to take us on in a game of football.

Cotterill decided against this and went much more defensive than they have played when I have watched them, it failed miserably.

I would love to say we played amazing football and that is what led to the 4-0 scoreline but that is not really what I think, don't see the problem.

How would you have broke down a bank of 4 and 5 then just asking. 

Clement said he was expecting Bristol to play 3 at the back like they have all season and they had to adjust  as he picked his team for that  

Do you think it's easy then. 

[eddie]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Having watched Bristol on tv a few times I was looking forward to them coming to take us on in a game of football.

Cotterill decided against this and went much more defensive than they have played when I have watched them, it failed miserably.

I would love to say we played amazing football and that is what led to the 4-0 scoreline but that is not really what I think, don't see the problem.

You can only beat what is in front of you when it is in front of you - and pulling little gems like 'a decent keeper would have saved all of Ince's goals' is just churlish, and demonstrates a basic lack of understanding of causality. If the first had been saved, who is to say what would have happened? He might have got four - or he might have been sent off for rogering Rammie

Ok, the scoring four bit is unlikely

[Ramarena]

I wonder if Clement can find a system to get the best out of Martin and Bent as a pair? 

[G STAR RAM]

33 minutes ago, curtains said:

How would you have broke down a bank of 4 and 5 then just asking. 

Clement said he was expecting Bristol to play 3 at the back like they have all season and they had to adjust  as he picked his team for that  

Do you think it's easy then. 

That's Clements problem to solve not mine.

Well yes obviously it was easy because we did it 4 times without really getting out of 2nd gear.

[G STAR RAM]

33 minutes ago, eddie said:

You can only beat what is in front of you when it is in front of you - and pulling little gems like 'a decent keeper would have saved all of Ince's goals' is just churlish, and demonstrates a basic lack of understanding of causality. If the first had been saved, who is to say what would have happened? He might have got four - or he might have been sent off for rogering Rammie

Ok, the scoring four bit is unlikely

Not really sure on the point you are trying to make.

My original point was that I would not say Ince was outstanding last night based on his goals. 

[eddie]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not really sure on the point you are trying to make.

My original point was that I would not say Ince was outstanding last night based on his goals. 

Ok, how about for his work rate, tracking back and winning tackles? Because he did a lot of that too - or for his link-up play with Christie, or for his pass out to Baird which led to Russell's goal?

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, eddie said:

Ok, how about for his work rate, tracking back and winning tackles? Because he did a lot of that too - or for his link-up play with Christie, or for his pass out to Baird which led to Russell's goal?

His work rate was very good last night, probably his best in a Derby short so, yes for me, that aspect was outstanding, I will hold my hands up to that.

His link up play with Christie was ok, I thought at times Christie was just left to his own devices down the right, especially the second half.

His pass to Baird for the 3rd goal is something that I would expect any professional footballer to be able to do.

[ram59]

I think a lot of the criticism of Bent is a bit unfair. We must remember that he's had so little game time that he can't be match fit. I think that if he could get half an hour each game with the odd full 90 minutes, we would get a greater contribution from him. I think his role requires more sharpness and better timing than any other position on the pitch. 

[JAT]

15 hours ago, Daveo said:

Bent is a poacher, plays higher up the pitch, this allows Ince to come in more central and cause problems.

Had Martin played tonight he would have dropped deeper trying to hold the ball up, this is how Martin likes to play and would have Forced Ince out wide. 

I'm not saying drop Martin. I just don't think we will see the best out of them together.

Having Bent in front gives the defenders more to think about too. If they press Ince when he has the ball then Bent is more likely to get space behind. With Martin he's very rarely going to make those runs behind so the defence just hold the line until Ince runs out of space and has to pass it sideways.

I think Clement just has to play it like he did last night and use different formations for different situations. 

Ipswich up next I'd expect us to go back to the usual. Thorne, Butterfield and Martin back in. Hedrick, Weimann and Bent out.

[Curtains]

10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

His work rate was very good last night, probably his best in a Derby short so, yes for me, that aspect was outstanding, I will hold my hands up to that.

His link up play with Christie was ok, I thought at times Christie was just left to his own devices down the right, especially the second half.

His pass to Baird for the 3rd goal is something that I would expect any professional footballer to be able to do.

You have to create the space by getting into that right areas to make the telling passes. 

Chris Martin can do that as well. 

I can make a pass 40 yards if the opposition are not on the pitch and not trying to kick me etc etc 

Pace is a big asset in Football and Ince has it plus he's good on the ball I don't know what your argument is with the guy. 

Hes a brilliant footballer as are a lot of Rams players .

The Championship is a fairly high standard .

[VulcanRam]

I was glad to see Martin being given a rest, it's overdue. 

I was glad to see Bent come in and I thought he played very well.

And yes, I agree that Ince plays better with Bent because a) it allows him to play centrally which he wouldn't in a 4-3-3 with Martin in the side and b) Bent makes the runs that Martin doesn't which creates space for Ince.

However, against Ipswich Martin would be a better bet. We will need his nastiness, his ability to buy time and free kicks and he'll scare them more than Bent. 

Horses for courses.

 

[Curtains]

5 minutes ago, Jean Antoine Tessier said:

Having Bent in front gives the defenders more to think about too. If they press Ince when he has the ball then Bent is more likely to get space behind. With Martin he's very rarely going to make those runs behind so the defence just hold the line until Ince runs out of space and has to pass it sideways.

I think Clement just has to play it like he did last night and use different formations for different situations. 

Ipswich up next I'd expect us to go back to the usual. Thorne, Butterfield and Martin back in. Hedrick, Weimann and Bent out.

Probably will happen. 

Buts that's a luxury for the manager and that's a good thing .

 So lets hope he gets it right again. 

[JAT]

Just now, curtains said:

Probably will happen. 

Buts that's a luxury for the manager and that's a good thing .

 So lets hope he gets it right again. 

Ipswich are a hard team to break down. It's going to be another game of chess. Patience and players who can keep hold of the ball are important.

Also worth a mention but Butterfield's run for the final goal last night was phenomenal. Pace, power, hold up play and the correct pass! Quality player!

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Jean Antoine Tessier said:

Ipswich are a hard team to break down. It's going to be another game of chess. Patience and players who can keep hold of the ball are important.

Also worth a mention but Butterfield's run for the final goal last night was phenomenal. Pace, power, hold up play and the correct pass! Quality player!

I agree it's probably a Chris Martin  type suited game against Ipswich .

Butterfield was good when he came on last night. 

[Curtains]

9 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

I was glad to see Martin being given a rest, it's overdue. 

I was glad to see Bent come in and I thought he played very well.

And yes, I agree that Ince plays better with Bent because a) it allows him to play centrally which he wouldn't in a 4-3-3 with Martin in the side and b) Bent makes the runs that Martin doesn't which creates space for Ince.

However, against Ipswich Martin would be a better bet. We will need his nastiness, his ability to buy time and free kicks and he'll scare them more than Bent. 

Horses for courses.

 

Don't often agree with you Vulcan but I think your right but it's good to have options 

[Shuff264]

I think the big difference last night was the space that Ince was allowed. He was given time to pick the ball up and run with it at defenders, and he punished them for it. Most teams this season have had two men on him to prevent this, Bristol either didnt or failed.

[Day]

Some stats here regarding fouls, Martin fouls almost as much as he is fouled, where as Russell isn't far behind Martin but has barely given an away.

This is across the full season so far

 

[SaintRam]

2 minutes ago, Daveo said:

Some stats here regarding fouls, Martin fouls almost as much as he is fouled, where as Russell isn't far behind Martin but has barely given an away.

This is across the full season so far

 

That's a good table, and not too surprising, when you have a defender/target man fighting for the ball it can often go either way, the fact Martin is ahead is testament to how much he falls over. Russell's turn of pace means he's on the end of cynical fouls a huge amount. 

Unlike the likes of Ince/Weimann, when tracking back he doesn't try to get the ball back when stood behind the player either. Which would explain the (actually rather impressive) 5 fouls. 

[Day]

Across the league, Martin is up there with the most fouls and fouled #Stats