Ram a lamb a ding dong Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I know we are 4th. Near top of goals scored and least conceded but yesterday our weakest area was the midfield. Everything went through Thorne which made us predictable. He also played like a quarterback. Johnson and Butterfield were far too deep. With Christie also sitting deep our attacking play was laboured especially in the last 30 mins. Against the top sides we need a runner from deep, be it a fit Bryso or Jeff. Against the lesser sides we can out-pass them but against the top sides you need a player who will break the lines. Just concerned that our predictability of last season could be rearing its head again. I dont want to be negative as we are having a great season but just feel we need a tweak in tactics, shape, formation or personnel. Against Bristol i would go 4-4-2 with Thorne and Johnson in the middle, Ince and Weimann out wide, Martin and Bent up front. This would catch Bristol off guard and enable us to play in behind their defence instead of Martins hold up play. If PC goes with 4-3-3 Hendrick is a must and should replace Thorne with Johnson taking his place. I think GT needs a break to freshen up for the busy Xmas schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Mills Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Shall we let the man paid to worry about who plays pick the team? We're only here to make puns, not talk about football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram a lamb a ding dong Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share Posted December 13, 2015 Cheeky. Just goes to show the site is 1% common sense, 1% thoughtful and well articulated points and 98% puns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Last year our supposed failing was a "lack of midfield steel" in certain matches. We now have arguably a surplus. We don't need to deploy all that bite in every match. There ought to be occasions and teams where we don't need 2 dropping back deep. We need pace and forward momentum. Up to PC to identify the right moments and combinations. I have to say he has not been particularly imaginative in that area recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrowram Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Brighton pressed high up the field and their strikers marked Thorne. Johnson came deep to get the ball leaving Thorne as a virtual third centre half. Brighton also doubled up on Christie preventing him from taking the ball down the wing.These tactics are nothing new. Middlesboro deployed them last season against us when Bamford scored .In spite of the change of manager we are no closer to finding a solution as to what to do when the opposition presses high up the field. A few long balls over the opposition midfield might help but we continue to play tippy tappy football from the back regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valleyram Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 If they could get Bryso fit it would help considerably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 They? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irobinson Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 47 minutes ago, Srg said: 4 4 bloody 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Is Butterfield,Johnson and Thorne the new Bryson ,Hendrick and Hughes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBustler1884 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I agree that Butterfield and Johnson were too deep yesterday, the passing was also quite slow. Seen lots of folk calling for hendrick but I thought he was terrible yesterday. He is not a good sub player, he seems to struggle to fit into a team. He should start if he is going to be played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 That is one of the limitations of 4. 4. 2, most sides playing it, even the really top sides tend to mostly go down one particular flank, Barca down the right for instance, Madrid down the left , Chelsea down the left etcetera, although another variation is the Middesbro one who play two defensive midfielders, maybe we should have a version of this, teams must adapt when sorted out by other managers, its similar to a batsman in cricket, they alter their stance when a weakness appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 1 hour ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said: Cheeky. Just goes to show the site is 1% common sense, 1% thoughtful and well articulated points and 98% puns As it should be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Ram Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 For me it's all about movement and tempo, you could pick any combination of players at our disposal in midfield and if the passing is slow, the movement sluggish, we sit deeper and deeper and struggle to create. im happy with the three that played yesterday, to play midweek, but light a fire under it gentlemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Oddly, there seems a general lack of confidence that means we're moving the ball far too slowly (because players want to concentrate on completing the pass). This allows our opponents to be righ on top of us, trying to hussle us out of possession. Then, also due to some deep fear of losing possession, our first thought is often to turn backwards and play the ball sideways. Again, because our opponents know this is what we are going to do it makes it very easy for them to press against us and causes us to lose the ball in dangerous areas. We have to move it more quickly and the first thought should be how to hurt the opposition. If that can't be done, then we can turn back and keep the ball. Get on the front foot. Carry the ball forward at pace. Look for Martin early and if he's free get the ball into him and run past him. Back yourself to shoot if the chance opens up. I do feel we are missing Hendrick's desire and drive to get forward, but the other midfielders obviously give us different things. But we need to be more attack-minded so I would bring Hendrick back in to the starting lineup for Brizzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Our midfield are sat too deep. They are too protectionist. Too many sideways and backwards passes, the tempo is low and we invite pressure onto ourselves. It's all completely unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 60% possession and 19 shots, not a lot wrong with that, the main problem yesterday was we didn't take our chances when we were on top. It was when we were chasing the game that Brighton were able to sit deep and hit us on the break, the first goal is always key for us. We also had too many average attacking performances yesterday, but we have won quite a few at home recently so no need to change it just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 3 hours ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said: I know we are 4th. Near top of goals scored and least conceded but yesterday our weakest area was the midfield. Everything went through Thorne which made us predictable. He also played like a quarterback. Johnson and Butterfield were far too deep. With Christie also sitting deep our attacking play was laboured especially in the last 30 mins. Against the top sides we need a runner from deep, be it a fit Bryso or Jeff. Against the lesser sides we can out-pass them but against the top sides you need a player who will break the lines. Just concerned that our predictability of last season could be rearing its head again. I dont want to be negative as we are having a great season but just feel we need a tweak in tactics, shape, formation or personnel. Against Bristol i would go 4-4-2 with Thorne and Johnson in the middle, Ince and Weimann out wide, Martin and Bent up front. This would catch Bristol off guard and enable us to play in behind their defence instead of Martins hold up play. If PC goes with 4-3-3 Hendrick is a must and should replace Thorne with Johnson taking his place. I think GT needs a break to freshen up for the busy Xmas schedule. You cannot us that word on here... As I said in last weeks thread, teams are aware of how to nullify us - take out Thorn and get Derby's defence to sit deep. Its not rocket science - we still need another outlet when teams press.,,,,,,,, But in yesterdays game if we managed to take one of our early chances Brighton would have been forced to change there game plan. I agree with we need to 'change tactics', [we need to mix it up] - but you don't have to change formation at the start of the game from 4-3-3 to 4-2-2 or 3-4-1-2. We have to be able change it and adapt when the game needs changing because of 4-3-3 might not be working...... Ok, we got a draw yesterday but at least we didn't lose [as Clement said it was a must not lose game] - more importantly we created enough chances we win this one, but we didn't take them! On another day 3 or 4 of those chances will go in - that's football. Let us just take Bristol to pieces on Tuesday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I've always thought pairing Thorne and Johnson as the CM would work, whilst playing Butterfield more advanced. Both are strong powerful players, enjoy a long ranger, have plenty of energy to get back and I don't see why it wouldn't work. Thorne should be at the edge of that box as much as possible. Thorne johnson Butterfield Ince Martin Weimann instead of the usual Thorne Johnson Butterfield Ince Martin Weimann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Hobhead Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I don't think there is 'much' of a dilemma in midfield. Thorne, Butterfield and Johnson have won games for us on their own this season, all score goals, all work tirelessly, and have been key to our upturn in form/results. One defeat since BJ and JB arrived isn't it? And JB was dropped for Hendrick that match... I tend to look at our wingers as the issue right now. I don't think Ince has looked worth a shirt for much of the campaign so far, and I don't believe Weimann is a winger, full stop. He's a striker playing out wide. But even Russell's been average at best so far. More poor days than good put it that way. So I find it strange yet predictable when I log on here after games to read again, how it's the midfield three at fault. I felt Thorne was very poor yesterday, and he wasn't great last week either. Johnson (yes I know he scored) wasn't good either yesterday, far too wasteful with his passing again. Butterfield was decent for me, he always is. Yet to see him play badly. But only seen him truly stand out in a few games. He needs to grab games by the scruff of the neck in my opinion, he's got all the tools but sometimes looks restricted or unwilling to gamble. So I'm by no means suggesting they all had storming afternoons, nor did they last week in Sheffield either. But the performances of our wingers in these two games have been far worse, and affect us as a unit more detrimentally in my opinion. Lost count of the times Butters found Ince in space with first time passes, only for Tom's efforts to look greedy and way off target. But on the rare occasions they had joy (the wingers), the unit looked better, with Johnson, Butterfield and Martin closer together, linking etc. My opinion is no more valid than the next. But yep, I see our wide play as our weakness. Unless Christie is having one of those great foraging displays down the right, we've little in the way of service out wide for Martin and others to feed off. I don't believe Ince and Weimann are good enough defensively either. It's always BJ and JB doing the donkey work helping out the full backs. No wonder they're deep... I fully expect Hendrick to start midweek. He's due a start, after being harshly dropped after the Hull victory. But it will no doubt be Butterfield to make way, and I find that staggering really. Against Hull, the midfield trio worked brilliantly together. Johnson for me is the weakest of our regular trio. But we don't have a proper left winger. He performed excellently there for Norwich in their promotion campaign winning their POTY award and scoring a lot of goals. I'd look to put Jeff in with George and Jacob, and have Russell and Johnson out wide. But, I'm not a successful coach. Paul Clement is. I'll trust his judgement. But I would put good money on Butterfield out/Hendrick in for the Bristol game. It's so obvious, and so wrong. I look forward to reading your thoughts, should you have any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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