Cam the Ram Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 3 minutes ago, curtains said: What is this Ince bashing. Hes doing ok for me. Similar question back to you, what is this Martin bashing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 4 minutes ago, AnimalisaRam said: What, the two can't play together? Nonsense. Bryson and Hendrick is more like Lampard and Gerrard It's all about the midfield blend but how the opposition plays is also significant and Sheffield had the edge yesterday with Huchinson and Bannan . First half yesterday the midfield sat too deep and Sheffield were allowed to come on to us and vacate the space in midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 1 minute ago, Cam the Ram said: Similar question back to you, what is this Martin bashing? I don't bash Martin I like the guy but he shouldn't be undroppable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 7 minutes ago, Alpha said: Have to say I agree. If Darren Bent can't get a kick now then there's zero point in him being here. A lot of talk in pre season of different systems etc. I think we all know 433 is by far our best and first choice system. But if the key parts of that are injured or in terrible form then how do we keep playing it. It's either stick with Ince and Co until they find some form or grab the bull by the horns. I don't mind either way. As a fan we're in the comfortable position of managing the team in hindsight. But for Darren Bent, it's now or never. Out of interest, how would you start Bent? Personally, I'd like to see him in a 2 with Weimann. However, we'd lose any sense of width, as 2 up top always results in a diamond - Russell/Ince are not wide midfielders, you could stick Johnson out left as he has played there before, but then who do you put on the right? Butterfield? Hendrick? We end up with a similar situation we had under Clough, where Hughes was out on the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 1 minute ago, curtains said: I don't bash Martin I like the guy but he shouldn't be undroppable Neither should Ince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Just now, Cam the Ram said: Neither should Ince Ince has been dropped before right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 1 minute ago, curtains said: Ince had a good defender against him so need to be tried more centrally. Was Thorne too slow yesterday along with Johnson build up play wise. Wiemann had a poor game I agree. Martin was poor also. Ince wouldn't know whether he had a good defender on him because any defender looks good when you stop the ball dead and turn away. Bannan had a good player on him too but managed to find space. Ince has been doing the same thing for weeks. He had good defenders on him last season... and he murdered them. When we have in form, hungry wingers making confident fast decisions then we'll elevate our performances as a team. We need our wingers to start matching other areas of the team because as a group they are lagging behind. Sheffield Wednesday isn't the right game to judge our team anyway. We were arrogantly stroking the ball about as if playing a charity match. The passing from a number of players was disgusting. Poor passing played at speed is one thing. Good passing at pedestrian pace is another. But poor passing played at Grandma pace... I'd make them walk home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 1 minute ago, curtains said: Ince has been dropped before right. Ince has only missed about 4 games this season and most of those were due to injury. So despite him having a pretty awful season by his standards, he's still kept his spot for the most part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 5 minutes ago, curtains said: It's all about the midfield blend but how the opposition plays is also significant and Sheffield had the edge yesterday with Huchinson and Bannan . First half yesterday the midfield sat too deep and Sheffield were allowed to come on to us and vacate the space in midfield. That wasn't a personnel issue, that was attitude, and as stated before with Thorne pinned back by one of Joao or Forestieri that causes the whole midfield to drop deeper. With the formation, that leaves the front 3 either horribly isolated, or having to drop so deep to retrieve the ball. The whole team needed to be 5 yards further forward. Wouldn't have mattered who you had in there, Hendrick, Bryson, hell, even Fat Frank would have struggled sat that deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 4 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said: Ince has only missed about 4 games this season and most of those were due to injury. So despite him having a pretty awful season by his standards, he's still kept his spot for the most part 3rd in the League so we are doing well really Suppose I need to rewind and get things into perspective.. Got to go now but thanks for your input though and I genuinely mean that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 1 minute ago, AnimalisaRam said: That wasn't a personnel issue, that was attitude, and as stated before with Thorne pinned back by one of Joao or Forestieri that causes the whole midfield to drop deeper. With the formation, that leaves the front 3 either horribly isolated, or having to drop so deep to retrieve the ball. The whole team needed to be 5 yards further forward. Wouldn't have mattered who you had in there, Hendrick, Bryson, hell, even Fat Frank would have struggled sat that deep. Good points thanks for your input mate. Got to go now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 10 minutes ago, Alpha said: Ince wouldn't know whether he had a good defender on him because any defender looks good when you stop the ball dead and turn away. Bannan had a good player on him too but managed to find space. Ince has been doing the same thing for weeks. He had good defenders on him last season... and he murdered them. When we have in form, hungry wingers making confident fast decisions then we'll elevate our performances as a team. We need our wingers to start matching other areas of the team because as a group they are lagging behind. Sheffield Wednesday isn't the right game to judge our team anyway. We were arrogantly stroking the ball about as if playing a charity match. The passing from a number of players was disgusting. Poor passing played at speed is one thing. Good passing at pedestrian pace is another. But poor passing played at Grandma pace... I'd make them walk home Agreed thanks for your input got to go now though mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 2 minutes ago, AnimalisaRam said: Out of interest, how would you start Bent? Personally, I'd like to see him in a 2 with Weimann. However, we'd lose any sense of width, as 2 up top always results in a diamond - Russell/Ince are not wide midfielders, you could stick Johnson out left as he has played there before, but then who do you put on the right? Butterfield? Hendrick? We end up with a similar situation we had under Clough, where Hughes was out on the left. Hated the line up v Brum. But it actually worked quite well. I think it was Chesterfield in the cup where Martin and Bent showed first promise. Martin dropping deep and Bent playing on the shoulder is their natural game. Dunno if it'd be a good move to start tinkering. But if we are set in the 433 even with out of form wingers then poor Bent will never get a game. Like you say, we don't ideally fit any other system. But we're already playing without natural in form wingers. Is it just the Sheffield Wednesday game that's made it look worse than it is though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 2 minutes ago, curtains said: Agreed thanks for your input got to go now though mate. I agree with you about Martin though. Shouldn't be guaranteed his place. But there's not a lot of competition for him. A player that is creative, scores goals and can compete in the air. You'd need 2 players combined to cover what he can do alone. We'd have to change a few things about the build up of the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Do you ever read a thread and wonder if you've lost some IQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 2 minutes ago, Alpha said: Hated the line up v Brum. But it actually worked quite well. I think it was Chesterfield in the cup where Martin and Bent showed first promise. Martin dropping deep and Bent playing on the shoulder is their natural game. Dunno if it'd be a good move to start tinkering. But if we are set in the 433 even with out of form wingers then poor Bent will never get a game. Like you say, we don't ideally fit any other system. But we're already playing without natural in form wingers. Is it just the Sheffield Wednesday game that's made it look worse than it is though? Albentosa's debut... didn't we sorta line up 3 at the back initially, Christie and Foz as wingbacks? Last few games I kept thinking Bent should be getting 20 mins here - I'd like to have seen it against Hull, just worry them a bit, but would we have then lost the solidity? I'd have bought him on with about 25-30mins left agains Wednesday, but then, with how deep the rest of the team was, he probably would have been just as isolated. 10 minutes isn't enough to come on and have any meaningful impact most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Possibly give Ince a free role just behind Martin, rather than stuck out on a wing especially with Christie playing attack wing back on the right. That way he could pick up the Martin flick on's, play on the right or left, its difficult to mark someone that constantly drifts into positions, it drags the opponents CB all over the place and opens up their defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIWY Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Don't think Ince would work up top on his own in the current 4-3-3 formation we play, but you never know. I think it's unfair to write this idea off completely as it's been shown to have worked at other clubs such as Stoke and Liverpool when Bojan and Coutinho have been stuck up front as a false 9 respectively against Man City. Personally I think he'd work best behind the striker in the hole as he has done when we've played 4-2-3-1, gives him more room and time and he has looked a different player when he's played there this season (Such as Birmingham away) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 1 hour ago, Alpha said: Have to say I agree. If Darren Bent can't get a kick now then there's zero point in him being here. A lot of talk in pre season of different systems etc. I think we all know 433 is by far our best and first choice system. But if the key parts of that are injured or in terrible form then how do we keep playing it. It's either stick with Ince and Co until they find some form or grab the bull by the horns. I don't mind either way. As a fan we're in the comfortable position of managing the team in hindsight. But for Darren Bent, it's now or never. I expected to see this yesterday as the game wore on. Thorne was too tightly marked to be effective, and we needed Bent on because our front players were making no impact. To me, it was the ideal time to switch to a more 4-4-2 based system. We came away with a good point, which is great, but I thought the one weakness was our inability to get behind a fairly slow Wednesday back line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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