SaintRam Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 9 minutes ago, TroyDyer said: I obviously don't know all the details, but if what has been said is true, he will likely get a jail sentence, and I for one would be in agreement with that. Footballer or astronaut, if you force a guy from a taxi and lay him at the mercy of your 'friends' so they can kick the hell out of him, you deserve to pay. While I don't disagree he's likely deserving of it, I don't think he'll get a jail sentence. The co-defendant who has the charge of assault will, probably. At least not in court here, not sure how the legal system differs in Ireland. He'll most likely get a non-custodial sentence - but a fairly strong one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Just now, SaintRam said: While I don't disagree he's likely deserving of it, I don't think he'll get a jail sentence. The co-defendant who has the charge of assault will, probably. At least not in court here, not sure how the legal system differs in Ireland. He'll most likely get a non-custodial sentence - but a fairly strong one. If that's the case, then that says more about the 'justice' system than anything else. I could go down for years for fiddling taxes, but nowt for being party in smashing someones face quite literally to peices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Just now, TroyDyer said: If that's the case, then that says more about the 'justice' system than anything else. I could go down for years for fiddling taxes, but nowt for being party in smashing someones face quite literally to peices. I agree, and the non-football part of my brain (which is most of it tbh) wants him to get some form of jail sentence but it's just not that common in his situation. You're right, it says far more about our warped system than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 For goodness sake, fans of which other club would be setting up the gallows before their player went to trial? Jeff is innocent at this point having pleaded not guilty and not had his day in court. Yes the paper printed some salacious details, but that's what papers do because it makes for a good story. Reading between the lines, even if the events roughly happened as described, with this bloke being thrown out of the club by the bouncers and trying to force his way back in, nowhere in any of the stories does it even claim Jeff hit him. All it says is there were "verbals". It's some other guy who's been charged who has the additional charge involved with hitting the bloke and our Jeff is simply charged with disorder, quite possibly because he's a famous face in the wrong place at the wrong time. As Billy Bragg once sang, "When you wake up to read that your paper is Tory, remember there are two sides to every story." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 1 hour ago, SaintRam said: I agree, and the non-football part of my brain (which is most of it tbh) wants him to get some form of jail sentence but it's just not that common in his situation. You're right, it says far more about our warped system than anything else. You want him to be jailed, is that regardless of the outcome? Or have you seen and heard all the evidence already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, McRamFan said: You want him to be jailed, is that regardless of the outcome? Or have you seen and heard all the evidence already? If found guilty, I'd want him to be. It's easier in a casual discussion to assume guilt when talking about consequential outcomes, because if found innocent literally nothing will change and there's no point in discussing that. Ditto to @Carl Sagan also, I don't think he's guilty - impossible to know unless you were there. It's just his potential innocence has no consequence worthy of any discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 He's lucky the joint enterprise law was kicked out last month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, SaintRam said: If found guilty, I'd want him to be. It's easier in a casual discussion to assume guilt when talking about consequential outcomes, because if found innocent literally nothing will change and there's no point in discussing that. Ah right, the easy way and making assumptions. The building blocks of a modern forum. If guilty I hope he doesn't go to prison. Its an outdated and expensive punishment that rarely has any positive effect. If found guilty he should pay to go on a course (expensive one) to understand the effect of violence on the victim and their family and friends. Meet others that have suffered and understand the on going impact that random acts of violence has. By understanding the consequences of your actions you can think before you act in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 19 minutes ago, McRamFan said: Ah right, the easy way and making assumptions. The building blocks of a modern forum. If guilty I hope he doesn't go to prison. Its an outdated and expensive punishment that rarely has any positive effect. If found guilty he should pay to go on a course (expensive one) to understand the effect of violence on the victim and their family and friends. Meet others that have suffered and understand the on going impact that random acts of violence has. By understanding the consequences of your actions you can think before you act in the future. I didn't say I was flat out making the assumption he was guilty, For the purposes of discussion, the assumption of guilt was made because as I said, innocence has no consequence to most of us, really. I'd rather you didn't make strides to portray me as some ignorant ****, common in the replies to legal tweets, just because I chose to not prelude all of my sentences with "if found guilty" etc. while writing on one of the most unofficial, casual and generally irrelevant mediums there is. I've studied law and do some work around it and to your point about prisons being outdated I must say I generally agree, as do many people. For the purposes of the above discussion, rather than suggesting he should go to prison (if found guilty) just because that's where's best I was more supporting @TroyDyer's comparative statement regarding the fact that our current society jails people for tax related crimes and similar while not placing custodial sentences on those who perform often severe physical violence. Obviously, the severity of a crime and the discussion there of is one of philosophy and cases can be made that so-called "victimless" crimes are just as damaging to society as those that injure/kill people, but that's a topic for another time in another place. Simply, while we live in a society that using a jailing system and uses it so prevalently, there is little reason to get into a debate about what we feel personally would be the best method of rehabilitating anyone who commits a crime when suggestions made are unlikely to be enacted by those who make the decisions. If I was to want him (if found guilty) to be punished in any way under the sun with no regard for what is likely to be handed out to him in reality, I would almost certainly agree with your suggestion. However (and accepting I have a more limited knowledge of the Irish legal system than our own) while that is possible, judging by what punishments have been handed out in the past and taking those as the options - I'm not sure any would rehabilitate well, if at all and I would therefore harbor a preference to a short jail sentence - not because I think it would work but due to comparative punishments given to others. That last sentence pretty much describing what is wrong with the legal system. I'd love it to change, but I don't feel like having a hearty debate about a non-existent reformation of the legal system, so I just use the constants and comparisons around to add basic input to a casual discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Anyone remember Marvin Robinson head-butting an ex-girlfriend? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/718153.stm Tuesday, 18 April, 2000 A Premiership footballer, who headbutted a woman outside a nightclub, has been sentenced to eight months' detention in a young offenders' institution. Derby County striker Marvin Robinson broke 18-year-old Mary Morris' nose in an attack outside Wolverhampton's Canal Club last September. Judge Christopher Hodson said the assault was so serious Robinson, 20, had to be given a custodial sentence. This was not a flash of violence on the spur of the moment Robinson, of Dunstall, Wolverhampton, pleaded guilty to assault causing actual bodily harm. Michael Anning, prosecuting, said Robinson attacked Miss Morris after she told his ex-girlfriend he was seeing another girl. Robinson was thrown out of the nightclub after an argument broke out between the two women. But Wolverhampton Crown Court heard he then waited two hours for his victim to leave. "The defendant emerged from an alleyway and said 'I am going to finish the job'," Mr Anning told the court. "With that he went up to her and headbutted her, fracturing her nose." Judge Hodson said he accepted the initial dispute was not of Robinson's making. But he said Robinson should have left the area after leaving the nightclub and had had two hours to cool down before the attack. "It seems to me perfectly clear that you wanted some revenge. This was not a flash of violence on the spur of the moment," he said. "This is, in my judgement, so grave an offence that there is no alternative to a sentence of custody." Peter Joyce QC, defending, said Robinson, who was sentenced to a supervision order for robbery in September 1996, was not a "stereotypical footballer" or a "villain-in-the-making". Derby's first team coach Steve Round told the court that the club was proud to stand by Robinson unreservedly and regarded him as a "thoughtful" young man. He said the offence was very out of character and the player had expressed regret for his actions. In a statement on the club's website, Derby County say it believed the sentence was too harsh. "Unquestionably he deserved to be punished, but we certainly back his right to appeal against the level of sentence imposed," the club statement says. "We have to question whether the court has decided to make an example of him because of his professional status." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Phoenix said: Anyone remember Marvin Robinson head-butting an ex-girlfriend? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/718153.stm Tuesday, 18 April, 2000 A Premiership footballer, who headbutted a woman outside a nightclub, has been sentenced to eight months' detention in a young offenders' institution. Derby County striker Marvin Robinson broke 18-year-old Mary Morris' nose in an attack outside Wolverhampton's Canal Club last September. Judge Christopher Hodson said the assault was so serious Robinson, 20, had to be given a custodial sentence. This was not a flash of violence on the spur of the moment Robinson, of Dunstall, Wolverhampton, pleaded guilty to assault causing actual bodily harm. Michael Anning, prosecuting, said Robinson attacked Miss Morris after she told his ex-girlfriend he was seeing another girl. Robinson was thrown out of the nightclub after an argument broke out between the two women. But Wolverhampton Crown Court heard he then waited two hours for his victim to leave. "The defendant emerged from an alleyway and said 'I am going to finish the job'," Mr Anning told the court. "With that he went up to her and headbutted her, fracturing her nose." Judge Hodson said he accepted the initial dispute was not of Robinson's making. But he said Robinson should have left the area after leaving the nightclub and had had two hours to cool down before the attack. "It seems to me perfectly clear that you wanted some revenge. This was not a flash of violence on the spur of the moment," he said. "This is, in my judgement, so grave an offence that there is no alternative to a sentence of custody." Peter Joyce QC, defending, said Robinson, who was sentenced to a supervision order for robbery in September 1996, was not a "stereotypical footballer" or a "villain-in-the-making". Derby's first team coach Steve Round told the court that the club was proud to stand by Robinson unreservedly and regarded him as a "thoughtful" young man. He said the offence was very out of character and the player had expressed regret for his actions. In a statement on the club's website, Derby County say it believed the sentence was too harsh. "Unquestionably he deserved to be punished, but we certainly back his right to appeal against the level of sentence imposed," the club statement says. "We have to question whether the court has decided to make an example of him because of his professional status." that reads as hideous as it did at the time . Found guilty.... Club found the sentence harsh!! I recall it well, and was incredulous at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 5 hours ago, SaintRam said: I agree, and the non-football part of my brain (which is most of it tbh) wants him to get some form of jail sentence but it's just not that common in his situation. You're right, it says far more about our warped system than anything else. Mind you, I shouldn't be surprised. This is the same justice system that allows you to abuse kids, and receive nowt but a knighthood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 3 hours ago, McRamFan said: Ah right, the easy way and making assumptions. The building blocks of a modern forum. If guilty I hope he doesn't go to prison. Its an outdated and expensive punishment that rarely has any positive effect. If found guilty he should pay to go on a course (expensive one) to understand the effect of violence on the victim and their family and friends. Meet others that have suffered and understand the on going impact that random acts of violence has. By understanding the consequences of your actions you can think before you act in the future. I think (if guilty) he should be bummed by a fella called Larry behind a pillar in D wing, while a heavy set bloke in a steve bloomer mask is 'watching'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 4 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: For goodness sake, fans of which other club would be setting up the gallows before their player went to trial? Jeff is innocent at this point having pleaded not guilty and not had his day in court. Yes the paper printed some salacious details, but that's what papers do because it makes for a good story. Reading between the lines, even if the events roughly happened as described, with this bloke being thrown out of the club by the bouncers and trying to force his way back in, nowhere in any of the stories does it even claim Jeff hit him. All it says is there were "verbals". It's some other guy who's been charged who has the additional charge involved with hitting the bloke and our Jeff is simply charged with disorder, quite possibly because he's a famous face in the wrong place at the wrong time. As Billy Bragg once sang, "When you wake up to read that your paper is Tory, remember there are two sides to every story." It was Jeff who was thrown out and waited for him outside according the reports. It would be interesting to know what exactly he'd done to annoy Hendrick so much in the first place though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 3 hours ago, McRamFan said: Ah right, the easy way and making assumptions. The building blocks of a modern forum. If guilty I hope he doesn't go to prison. Its an outdated and expensive punishment that rarely has any positive effect. If found guilty he should pay to go on a course (expensive one) to understand the effect of violence on the victim and their family and friends. Meet others that have suffered and understand the on going impact that random acts of violence has. By understanding the consequences of your actions you can think before you act in the future. The thought of going to prison has kept me on the straight and narrow all these years. And going on courses doesn't help with impulse violence fuelled by drink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 On 15/03/2016 at 23:44, loweman2 said: Didn't Gary Charles get done for punching a lass outside of a chippy once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loweman2 Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 9 minutes ago, Gypsy Ram said: Didn't Gary Charles get done for punching a lass outside of a chippy once? Gary Charles got done for quite a few things, do you remember he crashed his car in Borrawash and was found covered in human excrement and £20 notes !! very bizarre happenings !! might you was in the height of the "acieed" days !! edit ... thinking about it it was prob at the end of the 90s, well past acid days !! troubled man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loweman2 Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 it was mainly drink driving related incidents and a few other "strange" occurrences ! and it wasn't borrawash it was Redditch. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1452792/Ex-England-soccer-star-who-turned-to-alcohol-jailed.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 1 hour ago, CornwallRam said: It was Jeff who was thrown out and waited for him outside according the reports. It would be interesting to know what exactly he'd done to annoy Hendrick so much in the first place though. Aha! It would seem to have been both groups of them (not surprising if there's some sort of altercation). I read the report in the Mirror which says: Quote Mr McDermott tried to get back into the club but the bouncers would not let him in and they indicated to him that there was a taxi rank nearby. (where McDermott is the guy allegedly assaulted). Taken from: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/derby-county-footballer-jeff-hendrick-7565066 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I was once refused entry to a night club in Dublin. It was after an agency Christmas do, where 20 of us went through €2,000 in wine and very fine Whiskeys (food may have been involved too), and my agent and I fancied carrying on just a bit longer. It was only 4:00 am too - the night was still young. We ended up making do with a half bottle of Paddy between us in plastic cups while eating burgers in the 24 hour Burger King on O'Connell Street. To tell the truth, I'm surprised I'm still alive after that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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