KBB Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 We are going to get threads like this before, during and after every game until keogh leaves the club.To be honest if I was keogh I would leave the club and in my first interview I would slate a section of our fans and call them out for the petty minded coconuts they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfs1ram Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Well IMO Keogh was man of the match today. Especially in the second half in terms of energy and commitment.Yes he gave the penalty away (although the foul was outside the area) so what ! Clement was spot on, most of the players were lethargic and seemed to lack energy - Keogh excluded.I agree if I was Keogh I would leave the Club. Being hounded out by so called 'supporters' is just ridiculous.He is our best defender but I guess people will never forget the QPR play off final - pity really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 fair comment. Of course none of us know what happens behind the scenes (though some would like to think they do). I just call it as I think I see it. But that's the point. Some people wear rose tinted classes, some people have their heads in the sand, some people are so obsessed with things they become blind, some people see red etc. we all see different things. There's no right or wrong way of looking at something. If you make the case for your argument and it's rebutted in the same way then it all makes for good debate. Which is why we're all here. you think Warnock is captain material. U r either having a giraffe, or actually believe that to be of any significance. Warnock WILL be out of here on loan soon...and for a very good and obvious reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 you think Warnock is captain material. U r either having a giraffe, or actually believe that to be of any significance. Warnock WILL be out of here on loan soon...and for a very good and obvious reason.The 30 minutes he played against Reading?Or the 32 minutes he played against Reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 The 30 minutes he played against Reading?Or the 32 minutes he played against Reading?I am more swayed by the many minutes he never played......and when he did get a run if games he was not much cop. All academic anyway, he will be nowhere near our first team, and to offer him as captain material is pure lunacy. Sadly unless anyone is stupid enough to quote harbourram posts I wont be able to read them......PHEW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthram Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I am more swayed by the many minutes he never played......and when he did get a run if games he was not much cop. All academic anyway, he will be nowhere near our first team, and to offer him as captain material is pure lunacy. Sadly unless anyone is stupid enough to quote harbourram posts I wont be able to read them......PHEW! Give it to Jake Buxton a player who is so full of passion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakartaRam Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Again we are fortunate that we have a number of players with the experience of being Captain , plus others with the potential to be . I will trust and support whoever PC selects as he see's the real interaction in the squad. Also he will know which player he wants to take his views out onto the pitch matchdays. After all for those of us old enough you would never have thought John McGovern would be so successful in the role based on his leadership qualities with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Or he thinks if another player in the squad is better suited he is willing to step aside for the good of the team?The thing is a captains job isn't just the 90 minutes on the pitch.......... Yep, but it is possibly the most important part of being a captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 People have become so obsessed with their dislike for Keogh they actually appear to hope he makes a mistake just so they can have a moan about him. You call it as you see it? Well I saw Keogh captain the side to 3rd in the league during the 2013-14 season, I saw Keogh chosen as captain for every team he's played for and I saw all the players/managers who were asked about Keogh describe him as a leader. He struggled last season (as everyone did, but people seem to blame it all on Keogh) because one week he'd have Buxton partnering him, next week it would be Albentosa, then Shotton, then Forsyth, then Whitbread. He was the only player in our back 6 (keeper, defence and holding mid) to stay fit for the whole season (Forsyth was fit but got dropped for Warnock), anyone would struggle in that situation. And it speaks volumes that despite all the changing and our drop in form, his piers still voted him in the top 2 centre backs in this league. You might appreciate Keogh more if you stop looking out for his mistakes and start looking at his strengths. Him, Buxton and Russell are the most passionate players to pull on a Derby shirt in recent years, it would be nice if the fans can show the same sort of passion towards him rather than anger and abuse.its called Occams Razor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Keogh has done well for us, is he as good as shackell? i dont know, maybe not, as good as Barks at his best? Probably yes.As already pointed out the amount of partnerships he had to contend with, including a different role himself for a short period, was madness. Add to that the zero protection from midfield when we had no CDM but still tried to play this way with square pegs and all that, its no wonder mistakes where made.A lot of people point to the play off final error, but i still maintain that that goal came from Buckos error in not clearing the ball into the stands and not from Keoghs attempted clearance.I still dont think there is that much to fix with our defence. They showed, when they had a settled back 4, with some degree of protection in front of them, then they are a solid unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakartaRam Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Keogh has done well for us, is he as good as shackell? i dont know, maybe not, as good as Barks at his best? Probably yes.As already pointed out the amount of partnerships he had to contend with, including a different role himself for a short period, was madness. Add to that the zero protection from midfield when we had no CDM but still tried to play this way with square pegs and all that, its no wonder mistakes where made.A lot of people point to the play off final error, but i still maintain that that goal came from Buckos error in not clearing the ball into the stands and not from Keoghs attempted clearance.I still dont think there is that much to fix with our defence. They showed, when they had a settled back 4, with some degree of protection in front of them, then they are a solid unit. I agree many seem to reflect on the Wembley error , but for me and my son there were three to blame for that goal.Forsyth , Jake and Keogh, by the time Keogh had to get involved we were too far stretched anyway ,so for me whilst not blameless he was less culpable than the rest.Oh and probably a fourth QPR flouting the FFP regulations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 He was to blame for QPRs goal. Although I don't see the relevance of that to last season or even his apparent cock up yesterday. As for the defence being solid with a DM, it ain't. Hence why Clement has brought in Pearce and is balls out trying to get Shackell. If we land Shackell it will almost certainly be him and Pearce, with Shackell taking the captaincy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Keogh had a really good game I thought. Commanding at the back. People slagging him off for literally everything that went wrong at the back all game, even if it wasn't him.If he left and said "I never want to go to that **** city of Derby ever again or see that tinpot club for *****" I would totally understand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Problem with fans, they always need someone to moan about, this time it's keogh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 16 hours ago, Cam the Ram said:People have become so obsessed with their dislike for Keogh they actually appear to hope he makes a mistake just so they can have a moan about him. You call it as you see it? Well I saw Keogh captain the side to 3rd in the league during the 2013-14 season, I saw Keogh chosen as captain for every team he's played for and I saw all the players/managers who were asked about Keogh describe him as a leader. He struggled last season (as everyone did, but people seem to blame it all on Keogh) because one week he'd have Buxton partnering him, next week it would be Albentosa, then Shotton, then Forsyth, then Whitbread. He was the only player in our back 6 (keeper, defence and holding mid) to stay fit for the whole season (Forsyth was fit but got dropped for Warnock), anyone would struggle in that situation. And it speaks volumes that despite all the changing and our drop in form, his piers still voted him in the top 2 centre backs in this league. You might appreciate Keogh more if you stop looking out for his mistakes and start looking at his strengths. Him, Buxton and Russell are the most passionate players to pull on a Derby shirt in recent years, it would be nice if the fans can show the same sort of passion towards him rather than anger and abuse.All of this is obvious to anyone who will simply look at the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The QPR play off incident was the responsibility of the whole midfield and defence but of Forsyth, Buxton and Keogh in particular. It is history. Getting rid of Keogh will not erase it, especially if he goes to Burnley and they beat us to promotion again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Enough Wembley talk, we all know it wasn't solely his fault.If one more person drags up Wembley I'll persistently boo them and abuse their spouse on Twitter. You have been warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I would agree that the armband CAN mean nothing, especially short term.I'd wager, however, that if you sign a player, immediately make him captain and build your defence around him then it might just start to mean something by the time said player is entering his third season as captain (last season) and have some influence on how things are dealt with on the pitch.If it means nothing in our case, why even bother looking at it? Unless of course Keogh's being prepared for the exit door (which I would not be happy with, nor am I suggesting it's the case), I can't see the sense in changing it, if it means nothing!Keogh is clearly very popular in the dressing room, and as Alpha says, players will choose their own leaders - but sometimes being too pally with those 'in charge' professionally is a bad thing, the true sense of authority can get lost and standards can slip. Perhaps that is what PC is looking to change.As for Keogh on-field, the only real issue I have is that he is not in any way a calming influence when things are going awry.People are talking about Wembley again (oh god). I hate mentioning Wembley, because it ISN'T what my opinion is based around - the situation should never have arisen, but the response when it did was symptomatic of the issue I've just mentioned.It needed at least one player to not do something stupid, to stay calm, unfortunately not one of the three players mentioned managed to achieve this - and it's something I've seen time and time again before and after that fateful day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon the ram 2009 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Not sure what the ratio of haters to lovers of Keogh is, going by this forum I would say it's 50 50, but the fact so many clearly don't like him can't do his confidence any good at all, at grimsby before kick off he got a good evasion and clapped the fans in appreciation, 20 minutes later he was being ridiculed and we fell apart, yes I know it was a pre season friendly but at half time I felt like I was in my seat at PP still watching us against Reading, for me he's lost so much respect from so many fans he simply has to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Not sure what others think, but I think the Captain situation at the moment is the BIGGEST indication that Shackell is coming back.Is Clement waiting for Shackell to arrive until he announces a captain, because JS is going to be our new skipper? I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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