Reflections of Little Ronnie

[ronnieronalde]

No t's not another plug for a book ;-) Couple of major points but I might go off on one of those long tangents. it's NOT A Steve out post but I'll probably not quite word it right.

I thought overall he deserved another shot at it but a couple of things he did and didn't do, plus a couple of things he said and didn't say p'd me right off so I can't say I'd be devastated if he got fired.

Firstly, I don't know how to react to Sam Rush here. If I knew 100% that Mac had been approached by Newcastle and then had his head turned, then my respect levels for Samuel would be repaired to a much higher than I thought possible.

I don't really care who is the major decision maker, IF Mac's heart wasn't fully in it, then I'd find way to free him of his contractual obligations as quickly as I could.

The board, the owners and the CEO Sam have given McClaren (I think) a huge amount of backing I think they've put their balls on the line dragging Steve from a coaching role back into the spotlight at a massive club like Derby. What an opportunity, how many better clubs in England than the Rams when they're flying high. Steve must have thought all of his Christmas's had come early.

They've continued to back him to a massive extent this season as well, as far as I can see by giving him carte blanche on who he signs and by committing to a massively increased wage bill and transfer budget. Someone HAS to be held responsible when results don't match up with expectations. I think if he'd have scraped into the play offs the "collapse" would have been washed over and we'd have come back next season needing a major overhaul on the playing side as it was clear Steve (and Sam and the board) think the squad is lacking that extra quality to push over the line.

Based on Steve's "permanent" signings and based on the way he looked as if he'd lost the plot again towards the end (sorry, I know that sounds harsh) I'm not sure he'd have the tools to turn it round again. I personally think he'd need to shift too many key players to make it worthwhile keeping him on board. It's just my opinion but I do think some of the senior players were visibly angry and frustrated towards the end of the season. Hell maybe they just wanted to swear but this new forward thinking coaching staff have banned swearing due to their philosophy. You know what? **** that. Sometimes tough things need to be said. sometimes someone needs a rollocking, no swearing if you're angry? ffs, I'm angry that you can't stop the goalkeeper from chucking another one it, feck this nice guy philosophy, I hate it. It's football, you're there to win a game. I'm angry that not one of our defenders is capable of standing up and I'm angry that key players from last year have not been the mainstay of the season gone.

This brings me to loyalty in football overall, there's not enough of it, it's a real dying quality in the game. I am quite a big believer in karma and I think this might just be a little bit of karma going back to Sam losing a decent manager like Steve to lack loyalty. Maybe as well Steve should be put through the mill a little bit. I mean after all the club has done for him in this short space of time, you think that would buy you some loyalty, a season of 100% commitment?

Approaches to football managers go on all the time, Steve was "approached" by an agent/and/or representative of Derby while Nigel was still at work, so I also can't see that Sam Rush could really play the lack of loyalty card too strongly. (That's not meant to be libelous by the way just in case anyone is watching. I can't paint that as a fact It's just my suppositions based on interviews and quotes that have since come out around timescales)

What he has shown and continues to show is that he has a huge set of balls and is not afraid of making tough decisions, or at least implementing those decisions if he's not making them directly. He's got my respect for that, whoever has made the decision to change the head coach has got my respect and Steve goes off to pastures new having had a very successful 18 months and a poor two month spell which has undone a lot of the good work he did.

It didn't need to end like this either, it could so easily have been a brilliant season with everyone looking forward. Worse case scenario was play offs then Steve leaving. Best case was promotion and him staying. To miss out on the play offs altogether was a real hammer blow. It's tough to recover from that.

Fine margins.

Clement represents another massive risk taken by Sam (or by Mel Morris or a combination thereof) it's a huge risk to throw a rookie like that into the mix but I'VE got nothing for respect for them both for trying something as bold as that. I'm fairly sure that for every Jose Mourinho. Brendan Rogers and Garry Monk though, there'll be at least as many "renowned coaches" who've totally flopped like John Carver. Steve Kean and Michael Appleton.

This one could go either way but if Clement wants the kind of backing they gave to Steve, it's going to get bloody expensive for the money men.

[rynny]

Top post Ronnie. 

[Curtains]

That is a very good read Ronnie. 

[ColonelBlimp]

Was going well until the 'big believer in karma' ****** 

Otherwise, good post.

[Shuff264]

I'm really not interested in your penis's opinion

[ronnieronalde]

I'm really not interested in your penis's opinion

​You should maybe reconsider.

He's got a cracking eye for talent and those balls of his, when whipped in with pace are just exquisite to behold.

[Shuff264]

​You should maybe reconsider.

He's got a cracking eye for talent and those balls of his, when whipped in with pace are just exquisite to behold.

​The end product just isnt good enough, leaves a bad taste in your mouth

[Mostyn6]

well written and obviously well considered Ronnie. Cannot in any way say you're wrong about anything. I personally have no valid reasoning for McClaren staying other than intrigue and curiosity of seeing what he will/would do to fix what he himself perceives to be broken!

I too have reservations about replacing, not just with a rookie, but with anyone. My nightmare is someone coming in, the inevitable boost in performances will once again paper over the cracks and we do a full circle with a new head coach putting too much faith in players mentally incapable of performing when it matters.

[RamNut]

I don't think sam made the decision.

I should imagine that he's quite uncomfortable with the decision too.

He was always very much aligned with schteve and tried to play down the newcastle business.

Since the q&a where they felt comfortable enough to laugh and joke about it, we had the truly awful performance v Reading and the almost inconceivable failure to make the play offs.

I suspect that upset quite a few people at the top, and things took a new turn.

[ramit]

Dammit, that was one helluva post, now i'm gonna have to chance my mind about a number of issues.  Uh oh, that's hypocrite territory.  On second thought, you are wrong on all accounts and please stop with sexual references, you are turning me on

[Yani P]

What would happen if it was as simple as

 

Newcastle approached

Derby said will cost you £2m

Mac then claims undying loyalty after he fails this season

He turns down Newcastle 

Now we have to sack him as untenable

Suddenly we owe him £2m quid not compensation from Newcastle

What happens if he magically agrees to join them after we sack him

£4m turnaround 

[ramblur]

Whilst I'd agree with much of what you  wrote,Ronnie, I'd point out that any decisions will probably have been made by rather more than just Sam,or a Sam/Mel combination.

[eddie]

Ronnie, I think I agree with a huge amount of that post.

[Mafiabob]

Agree with pretty much all that Ronnie.... 

[ramblur]

I'd better expand on what I said. Once the decision had been made to ditch SM (assuming this to be the case,which looks increasingly likely),then I would suspect it would be Sam's job to identify replacement candidates.If they decided that Clement were the best option,then it would make sense for Mel ,who,it appears,either is, or is soon to be, the new chairman,to sound the guy out (if this is what has happened).

[RamNut]

I know some on here get quite agitated by any attempt to speculate about what happened, but its natural that people will try to join the dots and make sense of it. This is how i see it....

i suspect there have been numerous twists and turns and in the end i'm not sure that we've made the right decision.

I suspect newcastle did make an indirect approach to schteve in january. I suspect he pondered before committing to Derby for the season, but maybe suggesting that he might be tempted at the end of the season. Newcastle seem to have had some reason to appoint an interim manager to the end of the season. It might seem reasonable to some people that he should have a plan b for his own career, but - if true - it was a huge error of judgement. The club made a big effort to get everyone to commit. brydon and keogh gave up their chance to play in the prem. the squad decided to forego their bonusses. In the context of that, schteve actions would be bound to be seen as a betrayal. Perhaps things became fraught. Schteves on-going reluctance to give a catagoric verbal commitment became an issue in itself. to fail to recognise and address this was bad management by all concerned.....and it was a factor in the derailment of our season.

 If we'd gone up he might  stay. If we failed honourably in the play offs he might have wanted the option to go. Maybe he didn't want to commit to another year in the championship. Too many ifs and buts. The squad had committed. The owners had committed. They wanted 100% committment from schteve. There seemed to a belief that if we missed out, he was likely to go. I'm sure it wasn't the case, but sometimes I wondered whether we weren't actually trying properly.....as if the squad actually wanted to fail so that he would go. Whatever....... the wheels came off and schteve seemed powerless to arrest a decline that was inexplicable. Injuries weren't sufficient reason. There was something else. It was as if the dressing room was in disarray..........

in the end, we failed miserably. We were so bad that he couldn't leave with his head held high. Newcastle tried again. They had also slumped. Maybe they weren't such a great option afterall. I think our crisis had actually made up schteve's mind for him. I think he had decided to commit to another season and try to put things right. Whether he was able to do that is another question. Whether the squad was able to accept him and go again is an unknown. I susoect Mel Morris has personally funded Darren Bent and maybe Ince too. I suspect he had paid for Albentosa for whom Schteve showed little enthusiasm. maybe he blew the best part of a million quid trying to support the club. Maybe he was enraged by the failure and by schteve's apparent lack of commitment.

some have suggested that mel morris has a plan to take over. Maybe he does. It seems that he is certinly putting in sufficient investment to acquire the chairmanship. I suspect that the trip to America resulted in the approval from the current owners to a new plan to implement a change of manager. But its not something that i think sam would have welcomed. I think sam would have wanted to regroup and go again.

 

 

[StockholmRam]

Stayed out of all this so far. Waiting with intrigue to see what comes out of the club officially. Must be something going on indoors as surely they would have made a statement otherwise. However, that's an excellent post Ronnie and if McLaren is going then I'm quite in agreement with you on most parts,especially the loyalty in football thoughts. I don't even think you have been harsh on your " lost the plot" assesment. My thoughts towards the end of the season are perhaps harsher. 

Im not in agreement at all with our supporters who think he should be given opportunity to try to turn things around next season. I have tried to point out previously that his success rate in turning things around when the wheels have come off isn't very good. In fact it's woeful. Such a shame really after his first season. The football was splendid mainly and watching the team destroy Forest, Brighton etc was truly joyful. The best football I have seen from a Rams side since Eranio, Wanchope, Stimac etc. Such is our lot as Derby fans. Pain and sorrow very quickly follows anything good. The 0-3 defeat to Reading and the manner of the defeat was as bad as QPR at Wembley or Leicester 94 for me in bad feeling. In fact it was worse. At least we turned up and played in those two previous games. This v Reading was something else and as I watched I thought something was seriously wrong here. 

Like most here I don't know the ins and outs and goings on in the boardroom but I would be surprised if they were not completely alarmed and caught out by our failure those last couple of months. Perhaps even very peed off. 

 

Lets see see what gives. Surely someone from the club is going to break cover on this soon...

One last thought..quite apt....COME ON The Tigers!!

 

 

[RamNut]

Stockholm may be right that Schteve might not have been able to get things on the right track, but sometimes i think you have to give people the chance. I think he had just about done enough to be given another go, but that would be conditional.

conditional upon him showing a real awareness and understanding of what went wrong, including his own errors, and having a convincing and credible strategy for putting things right.

in the end i suspect that he hasn't been asked for his opinion.

[StockholmRam]

I think that depends on the person Ramnut mate. He is such an odd fish McLaren. For me personally I do look at track records and if this was a first instance of wheels off then yes maybe a chance to fix what went wrong is fair. But in his case it's what, the 5th time. England, Twente 2nd time around, Wolfsberg, Forest and now Derby. There is just nothing at all there to show me that he could do it. His whole interpretation of what was needed communication wise over the NUFC speculation left a lot to be desired and perhaps left a few in important places within the club upset. He is not an easy fella to get a handle on. 

Ive never said this on here but now is perhaps as good a time as any. I know Wigan Chief Exec Johnathon Jackson quite well. He interviewed McLaren for the job there after Coyle was sacked. It was a straight wish list from the owners for Rossler or McLaren. Steve was really wanted from some within the club. Without going into too much detail he told me that McLaren was just so weird, strange and odd in the interview that he basically gave himself no chance just by the way he acted!! 

Odd odd bloke if you ask me. Time for us to move on. 

[eddie]

I think that depends on the person Ramnut mate. He is such an odd fish McLaren. For me personally I do look at track records and if this was a first instance of wheels off then yes maybe a chance to fix what went wrong is fair. But in his case it's what, the 5th time. England, Twente 2nd time around, Wolfsberg, Forest and now Derby. There is just nothing at all there to show me that he could do it. His whole interpretation of what was needed communication wise over the NUFC speculation left a lot to be desired and perhaps left a few in important places within the club upset. He is not an easy fella to get a handle on. 

Ive never said this on here but now is perhaps as good a time as any. I know Wigan Chief Exec Johnathon Jackson quite well. He interviewed McLaren for the job there after Coyle was sacked. It was a straight wish list from the owners for Rossler or McLaren. Steve was really wanted from some within the club. Without going into too much detail he told me that McLaren was just so weird, strange and odd in the interview that he basically gave himself no chance just by the way he acted!! 

Odd odd bloke if you ask me. Time for us to move on. 

​Really stretching a point if you think that 'Twente second time around' was a case of the wheels falling off.

They were third - and after McClaren left, they dropped to about eighth. And Forest haven't had wheels for years. I'll let you have the others.