some Derby fans, embarrassing.

[davenportram]

"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes"....can't remember who said that.

 

any my good at dominos dav? 

but if you ask players to do jobs they are not capable of doing as part of your system is that the players fault or the managers?

[Curtains]

but if you ask players to do jobs they are not capable of doing as part of your system is that the players fault or the managers?

Jay at CF 

[ronnieronalde]

"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes"....can't remember who said that.

 

any my good at dominos dav? 

​Was it Nigel Clough when you lot were all slating him after the keogh penalty against Forest?

Am I right? I don't know who said it but I think that might be a pretty good guess.

[Bris Vegas]

"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes"....can't remember who said that.

 

any my good at dominos dav? 

​Brian Clough's a legend, but those comments were for back in the day and don't apply today.

If that was the case, teams like Greece, Liverpool and Chelsea would never have won major trophies in the past decade.

[Mostyn6]

You need to get out more mate, I know manure fans who slagged off rooney when he was supposed to be going to Chelsea, yet he didn't actually say he was going, but he got abuse from his own fans.

newcastle fans slagging off Pardew when they were top half.

west ham slagging of their manager when they were doing well too.

i can't be arsed to think of any more. That's enough I assume no?

​think you've missed what I am saying, or the question I am asking. Why do fans believe that one thing would affect the players, but something so extreme wouldn't?

[Guest]

but if you ask players to do jobs they are not capable of doing as part of your system is that the players fault or the managers?

Both, you work on something in training and you then don't carry out them instructions or play to a lower level then the player has to accept some responsibility. If our players are as good as we are saying, then they should be able to adapt their game to play as a def mid, however I will accept that some of Macs calls were dubious, and at times desperation to address the rot set in.  Do tactics result in players making fundamental mistakes, like kicking the ball to an opposing player who is 10 yards away, not picking up players at a corner, or not seeing out a game with under 2 minutes to go when you have been cruising for the previous 88?

i don't accept this as the sole reason for our failure this season, it contributed to our downfall in some games, but by then we were on a downward spiral.  For me we got complacent, from the manager, the players and the fans, we expected to get promoted, we took our eye off the ball and before we knew it the autos had gone, the fans were more focused on tactics and creating ITK rumours, and we lost the feel good factor.  The players thought the results would come, and suddenly found themselves on the ropes, and the pressure suddenly hit them, mentally they became drained, and the manager should of at very least got enough points together to get us into the play offs.

its a 3 year plan though, and although the disappointment is still there, we will learn, and come back stronger....Imo :-)

 

[davenportram]

I agree Leeds itvis one factor as are the injuries as is not trying a different system when the original one was not working. But too often it is being said its not Macs fault its the injuries.

 

[Guest]

​Was it Nigel Clough when you lot were all slating him after the keogh penalty against Forest?

Am I right? I don't know who said it but I think that might be a pretty good guess.

Those 4 years all blurred into one Ronnie, you may be right but I must admit I haven't got a scooby what you are referring to.

[Guest]

​Brian Clough's a legend, but those comments were for back in the day and don't apply today.

If that was the case, teams like Greece, Liverpool and Chelsea would never have won major trophies in the past decade.

I don't disagree, as I said Mac has made mistakes, so have the players, it's not just one thing that you can point at for the disappointment end to the season.

 

what I I will say though, is them teams only won because the players carried out the instructions and adapted their games to do so.  How many have failed because the players didn't do what was asked of them, bet the list is longer :-)

[Boycie]

​think you've missed what I am saying, or the question I am asking. Why do fans believe that one thing would affect the players, but something so extreme wouldn't?

Because they're not as intelligent as other people.

[Boycie]

Was going to say "as me" but didn't want to push it too far.

[Guest]

I've read about 30 times today that the McClaren rumours MUST HAVE unsettled the players and ruined our promotion push.

How can Derby fans think that's true, yet not think being aggressively abused and told you're f*****g **** during matches and in pubs and restaurants by drunk and aggressive Derby "fans", whilst top of the league could never affect the players??

I was in gymn changing room listening to a bloke who never goes to games telling me everyone watching on tv could see keogh was crap.....

it is like a medieval witch hunt....gossip and loud people imposing a clearly ridiculous viewpoint. Advising the person Keogh was voted in team of year.....answer back was "players can't know what they are on about"

"fans" created a toxic atmosphere both at and away from the ground. It came from mistakes made by many players in a mad 30 second spell at Wembley and one person took the blame...and was then over critic incised based on past mistake at wembley. This really was a witch hunt in every sense of the word.  It continued as we went numerous games without conceding. It was bizare.... It would annoy anyone, and it was loud and vocal criticism. It was twitter criticism,,,,,

we sadly ended up with a team under performing, for the famous "many" reasons. One of which for sure was we had some **** fans .....hardly going to be told, never mind listen to players complain are said fans.

as our crowds grow we get fans with little or marginal allegiance to team through thick and thin. This happened when we moved to pride park and 5,000 fans appeared from nowhere....and grew to about an extra 10,000 new fans who would not watch us at the a Baseball Ground.

in last year we have grown crowd by circa 5,000 and I personally feel the higher crowds have not lead to increased match day support. some of the new fans attending games spouting repeated views they heard from someone else, which makes them feel more knowledgeable, we would have finished higher in table.

from always having loyal smart fans I can see a big difference from what we used to have....I am going back to eighties upto when we left BBG

 Only looking back now.....players were less willing to sign autographs at Bournemouth away compared to blackpool away.  

We have fans implying Christie is useless....he made a couple of mistakes, notably vs Watford....but it should not define his season. 

Grant has made many more clear errors, yet is less criticised. 

Yes players need to accept criticism....but criticising when we went six or seven gams not conceding told a sorry story. How is that fair. What more did we expect ?

IF players sensed McClaren was likely to leave, and crowd was unfairly criticising them, especially THEIR captain....it is probable and likely their performances would dip. 

Without a clear break...change in direction at Management level, we are likely to get more of the same. Culture is hard to change in any group of workers. 

without the injuries I am sure we would have made play offs...but still does not excuse irrational, biased criticism of our players at games. Keogh hitting pass to Christie who was in wrong position in front of east stand...as they were at work Keogh bollocked Christie. The reaction then of our "fans" was crap. The crowd told keogh off for telling Christie off. Unbelievable...truly unbelievable. If we were bottom, if we were in a relegation fight....we would not get such a reaction. An error between two players ...and our crowd start screaming at our captain. Great ...summed it up for me on that moment. 

[RamNut]

Constant sledging on t'internet?

does that have an effect? 

[-JW-]

Mostyn moaning that drunk people say stupid things. In other news, Pope still Catholic.

[ramit]

I was in gymn changing room listening to a bloke who never goes to games telling me everyone watching on tv could see keogh was crap.....

IF players sensed McClaren was likely to leave, and crowd was unfairly criticising them, especially THEIR captain....it is probable and likely their performances would dip. 

 

​Watching a game on TV actually gives you a better view of all incidents and player performances, so your point is what?

McClaren didn't leave, you know and if the players got unsettled by rumors of him leaving that's called taking your eye off the ball.  They have a job to do irrespective of who was, is or will be the manager.  What is unfair criticism to one fan is fair to another, but i get your point that some fans are better than others.  Heaven forbid that the precious captain should get criticism, surely the most important player in the squad is exempt from that eh.

Am starting to think that moaning is the national sport in England, but i suppose i am out of line saying that ,being a plastic foreigner and all.

[eddie]

Should we list our scapegoats?

Nick Pickering

​Half fans

[Guest]

​Watching a game on TV actually gives you a better view of all incidents and player performances, so your point is what?

McClaren didn't leave, you know and if the players got unsettled by rumors of him leaving that's called taking your eye off the ball.  They have a job to do irrespective of who was, is or will be the manager.  What is unfair criticism to one fan is fair to another, but i get your point that some fans are better than others.  Heaven forbid that the precious captain should get criticism, surely the most important player in the squad is exempt from that eh.

Am starting to think that moaning is the national sport in England, but i suppose i am out of line saying that ,being a plastic foreigner and all.

TV can give a better view. Watching in a pub where one else on says keogh is shot, and all agree to be buddies ....that is not valid observations. If you set people up to watch on their own TV and analyse they would come up with their own view, rather than the wrong opinion of "keogh is ****". That is the point should you wish to realise the environment, as opposed to the medium was the issue I raise. 

Criticism for hitting one pass into touch is unfair, especially when pass was fine, player moved. Watching back on TV clearly showed this.....yet people will argue black is white in order to avoid having to admit what they concluded whilst at game was wrong. I sit in many parts of ground.....and you get a totally different perspective.....sit high up in main stand..you can see a pass that could be made. Sit near dug outs...much harder to spot where space is and ball should be moved to.

[Guest]

Should we list our scapegoats?

Nick Pickering

He became a cult hero ..... And had his own chant due to him being pants. Nico, Nico would ring out from popside to the most stunned looking player's face I have ever seen.

[ramit]

TV can give a better view. Watching in a pub where one else on says keogh is shot, and all agree to be buddies ....that is not valid observations. If you set people up to watch on their own TV and analyse they would come up with their own view, rather than the wrong opinion of "keogh is ****". That is the point should you wish to realise the environment, as opposed to the medium was the issue I raise. 

Criticism for hitting one pass into touch is unfair, especially when pass was fine, player moved. Watching back on TV clearly showed this.....yet people will argue black is white in order to avoid having to admit what they concluded whilst at game was wrong. I sit in many parts of ground.....and you get a totally different perspective.....sit high up in main stand..you can see a pass that could be made. Sit near dug outs...much harder to spot where space is and ball should be moved to.

​When i watch a game with friends, we usually disagree about most incidents, but most times i watch Derby games from the comfort of my home with no one to argue with.   Now that you clarify it, i understand your point though, i think, drunken fans are perhaps not in the best shape to make judgment calls, but maybe they shouldn't be referred to either for the same reason. Doubt very much that players are negatively influenced by the opinion of plastered fans, that would be beyond pathetic.

As i remember it, Christie had already moved before Keogh passed it, but i wouldn't call him mediocre just based on that incident, it is the accumulation of major mistakes that have led me to that conclusion. i am not stating facts here, simply my humble opinion, just so that's clear.

[G STAR RAM]

A lot of the new fans that have turned up since we started doing well really annoy me with their constant moaning and expectation, but is that really any different to any other club?

And what is this about 'abuse, hatred and vitriol' when we were top of the league? Are we talking about in the ground and are we talking about this being en masse or just isolated incidents that players should be able to deal with.

For me it is seems as though you are just looking for lame excuses to explain our downfall when the only real excuse we have is that we were not good enough.

Not wanting to fan the flames here, you say you don't remember anything like this from Derby fans when Clough was in charge, think back to when we played Burnley away one November/December with the chance to go top of the league.