Whitbread and the defence situation

[eddie]

I don't quite get the Albentosa hate which seems to have emerged over the last couple of weeks.

He rescued three Fozz-ups yesterday.

[Dimmu]

Whitbread for DM - sorted.

​You're on duty now?

[VulcanRam]

The memory span on a football fan is amazing isn't it haha, Whitbread is now going to be the saviour even though he was deemed not good enough earlier on in the season!

​so according to many in this thread is Christie, despite being the worst right back in Derby County history only a couple of games ago who HAD to be dropped. Now he will come back a superstar. Until he first gives the ball away. Then he'll be crap again and has to be dropped. 

[VulcanRam]

I don't quite get the Albentosa hate which seems to have emerged over the last couple of weeks.

He rescued three Fozz-ups yesterday.

​I agree, actually (and I'll get my tin hat on here) I thought the whole defence did ok in defending (perhaps not their distribution) in the face of a very good Brentford attack who had a free run at them half the time due to our missing midfield.

[Ramos]

​I agree, actually (and I'll get my tin hat on here) I thought the whole defence did ok in defending (perhaps not their distribution) in the face of a very good Brentford attack who had a free run at them half the time due to our missing midfield.

​I agree the defence didn't get much help today and although brentford could and should of won about 4-1 they actually defended pretty well, keogh block, warnock tackle and forsyth clearance off the line comes to mind. The brentford goal was a fine finish and the midfield didn't do much to help protect the back four either.

The albentosa hate needs to stop, judge him after 10 games into next season, he's coming into a completely different style of play and can barely speak english, lets give him time to adapt and a full pre season behind him, not every player hits the ground running in england.

[Animal is a Ram]

I remain unconvinced by Albentosa. But I don't lie this entirely at his door. Needed to come in first thing in June, not half way into a season - the difference between Spanish second tier and Championship football, as well as the language is huge, and not something that can be turned around so quickly. Especially when the only other Spanish nationals are Mascarell (now gone back to Madrid? out for the season anyroad) and Calero (somehow, nowhere near the 1st 18).

Warnock, I don't understand. Looked a solid, dependable, leader on the face of it when he signed from Leeds. McClaren called him a 'talker'. Showed a bit of this against Wigan, but offered nothing vs. Brentford. Jury's still out for me - as it should be in only his 3rd start for us. (well, 2 and 1/3.) Offered precious little going forward, blazed crosses into Row Z or out for a throw.

Christie - fantastic August/September. Lost all confidence, can't beat a man, can't supply a cross. Yes he's only young still, and a lot to learn, I really hope this poor spell is just an extended cloud, not the start of his decline as a footballer. Either that or the rumours that Arsenal were looking at him went to his head...

Keogh, despite the thoughts of many on here, has been our most consistent defender. Why? Because he has had the most games. Probably the only defender to come out of the Brentford game with any decent credit.

Forsyth has had a wobbly 2015. Probably an understatement. Looks unconvincing beyond the basics at CB, but a vital clearance off the line at 1-0 and wins the majority of his headers, which, for someone of his height, I would expect. Sorely needs some confidence back.

Whitbread looked pretty good considering the time he has spent injured. Has to start vs. Blackpool for me. The only player we have fit that is naturally a left sided CB. 

Shotton looks more comfortable at RB than at CB, weird when he prefers to be in the middle. Not quite sure he deserve all the fury he has garnered recently. I hope he is back for Blackpool though.

For me, defence on Tuesday night should be:

Shotton, Keogh, Whitbread, Forsyth.

Just seeing that written there gives me more confidence than Forsyth in the centre and Keogh out right. Why that makeshift back four we saw on Saturday was anyone's hope of a concrete line was beyond me. It looked dodgy on paper, let alone on the pitch, yet because it got us a (slightly fortunate, IMO, great saves from Granty) clean sheet vs.  Wigan,  people wanted to stick by it.

All in all, we have used far too many different players, in too many different combinations at the back this year. Partly due to injury, yes. But we haven't had the squad to deal with this since the start of the season. Christie for Wisdom, was the only change made in the summer defensively, with Shotton coming in on loan too. We still don't know our best back 4, let alone our best XI, with 4 games to go. Most teams, especially those at the top, have been settled since about November.

[ilkleyram]

Agree with much of this Animal, though I thought Albentosa was much improved against Wigan and then Brentford and I would keep him in, keep Keogh at RB (I think Christie needs a break) and move Fozzy back to LB or keep Warnock there but bring in Whitbread - when he's played (not often enough) he's been OK.

The significant thing that is missing, apart from the injured/suspended players, is confidence, on and off the field.  Winning on Tuesday might help a bit.

[Carl Sagan]

To deal with various misconceptions in this thread:

1. Whitbread was neither a Clough nor a McClaren signing. Sam Rush brought him in during the brief interregnum.
2. Albentosa came from the Spanish top flight, not their second tier.
3. Forsyth is the only Ram in the Championship team of the season according to WhoScored.com.
4. Rawson is back at Rotherham until the end of the regular season.

For Blackpool, now he's fit, I would try Ssewankambo in at right back. He's young, but with a great pedigree and was a regular in the Dutch top flight until he joined in January.

Keogh moves to centre half. We need Forsyth at left back for his attacking threat. So it's a straight choice between Albentosa and Whitbread for the second centreback berth. For now, I'd play Albentosa to build his understanding with Keogh and keep Zak on the bench.

Finally, what of Warnock? I'm surprised we've not tried him as CDM. I don't know as much about him as many, but there's lots on here who've said he's played that position in the past. If true, then I expect he could do the Eustace-style version of the role pretty well, given he was an England international.

[Ramarena]

I don't quite get the Albentosa hate which seems to have emerged over the last couple of weeks.

He rescued three Fozz-ups yesterday.

​Yeah I think he looks o.k, got in some pretty useful tackles and interceptions on Sat. 

[eddie]

I think you're all missing the big picture here, which is the introduction of the term "Fozz-up"

[Daz_The_Ram]

Whitbread is a very underrated footballer. 

Brave, strong in the tackle, with a very decent touch. I've seen enough from him this season to tell me that he can do a sound job for us until the end of the season. He was part of the side when we were on a very decent run of results.

By the looks of it ... Albentosa is having a few teething problems, clearly struggling to adapt. It may be time to put the kid gloves on him, and build for next season...we can't afford passengers now.

Forsyth? ... everyone knows my feelings about the guy. Whether at left back or centre back. Totally overrated, as inept a distributor of the football as you will ever see, completely unaware of his positioning on the pitch. Gets singled out by the opposition consistently as a weak link. Get shot of him, he is a liability.

Warnock has shown he can do the job that is expected of him defensively, should have been in weeks ago. So ... I agree with the overall sentiment shown on here thus far ... 


Shotton            Keogh            Whitbread              Warnock

 

[Stive Pesley]

Agreed that Whitbread is decent, he's just massively injury prone

Warnock is much more solid defensively than Forsyth, but his final ball on Saturdat was just as bad

Albentosa - I feel sorry for him, as he was clearly freaking out on Saturday being surrounded by Keogh and Forsyth playing out of position. His communications are obviously limited anyway due to the language barrier, but he must have felt like he was in a bad dream...sad to say he didn't deal with it very well.

Christie is still young and although a talented footballer, he's learning and low on confidence. The sensible thing to do would be to replace him with our more experienced back-up RB...oh hang on WE DIDN'T BUY ONE. #massivemacclarenfail

 

[Animal is a Ram]

 

Albentosa came from the Spanish top flight, not their second tier.

​A team that was only promoted last season, for the first time, to La Liga. No disrespect to Albentosa and Eibar, but 6 months in the top tier does not a top tier side make.

[Daz_The_Ram]

​A team that was only promoted last season, for the first time, to La Liga. No disrespect to Albentosa and Eibar, but 6 months in the top tier does not a top tier side make.

​Agreed ... for some reason, the idea on here was that we were getting a some kind of Stimac/Carbonari hybrid.

Absolutely not ... he is still learning the game.

[mike93rh]

Cannot work out for the life of me the Albentosa hate on here. I think he's looked steady, and although his distribution was horrendous on Saturday, it's by no means rational to right him off completely. (His distribution was often quoted as being one of his best attributes, give him time.)

As for Forsyth at CB, it cannot be used again against Blackpool I feel. I much prefer Warnock at left back as well, so I would gladly see Fozzy replaced by Whitbred/a fully fit Shotton on Tuesday. For me, Forsyth is a solid defender but a liability on the ball, and more prone to mistakes than Keogh and the likes (though no one seems as happy to mention this compared to Keogh).

To be fair to him, he's barely missed a game in 2 seasons, so he might well be tired and in need of a break - what he certainly needs is confidence, and I'm not convinced that making him play through this poor spell is going to do him any good at all. 

 

[CheltenhamRam]

Without a midfield any defensive line up is going to look ropey. I actually think they've been doing better (relatively...) of late than some of the horror shows over the last few weeks.