Srg Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Lol Well a team sheet usually has names on it. And its not a bad idea to find a system which suits the personnel. He signed the personnel who didn't fit in his system. So just picked the best 11. Which i thought was the argument. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 " a team that would have made the play offs irrespective of his appointment" Erm, you what? Although he phrased it very presumptuously, I also think we were on course to finish in the POs this season under Clough. So stick that in your e-cig and nebulise it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleEatonRam Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Why is it rubbish? 1. Its totally inappropriate to be talking like that in an open forum. 2. Sam seems to presume that he knows more about football management than the previous manager. 3. It is obviously factually untrue to suggest that nigel clough did not consider systems and formation. Everyone knows that i have been critical of NC & co but i would accept that they did try different systems and formations .e.g. 4411 with Commons playing in the hole 442 with wingers - commons and teale etc 4231 with bailey and savage in the holding roles, commons bueno and cywka all in attacking midfield roles. 442 with a diamond midfield of hughes, bryson and eustace playing deep, ward behind the strikers 433 with ward up front with martin and russell, etc 451 ete etc I'm sorry, but I'm really struggling to see why this is such a sore point. What is the big deal with what Rush said? I don't think simply pointing out the differences in approach between two managers is 'inappropriate', even in an open forum. If anything can be inferred from it, it's that Sam Rush thinks the new manager knows more about football management than the previous manager. Besides, is no-one allowed to question anyone? I can never understand this mode of thinking. The majority of the systems you listed were used, as has been suggested by a previous poster, in order to find a way to best use the 11 that NC wanted on the field (in my opinion, anyway). In short, whereas Clough's thinking went 'players on teamsheet ---->tactics to get the best out of them', SMC's thinking goes 'tactics suitable for this match ----> players to fit into those tactics'. There was no suggestion, from Rush or anyone, that Clough's approach is wrong. It's just a case of highlighting differences. I've never known such a throwaway observation cause so much consternation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I'm sorry, but I'm really struggling to see why this is such a sore point. What is the big deal with what Rush said? I don't think simply pointing out the differences in approach between two managers is 'inappropriate', even in an open forum.If anything can be inferred from it, it's that Sam Rush thinks the new manager knows more about football management than the previous manager. Besides, is no-one allowed to question anyone? I can never understand this mode of thinking.The majority of the systems you listed were used, as has been suggested by a previous poster, in order to find a way to best use the 11 that NC wanted on the field (in my opinion, anyway). In short, whereas Clough's thinking went 'players on teamsheet ---->tactics to get the best out of them', SMC's thinking goes 'tactics suitable for this match ----> players to fit into those tactics'. There was no suggestion, from Rush or anyone, that Clough's approach is wrong. It's just a case of highlighting differences. I've never known such a throwaway observation cause so much consternation! You seem to be the one getting your knickers in a twist. I doubt very much whether schteve thinks about systems prior to personnel Even if he did, why is this approach deemed superior? Schteve has got off to a good start but its only 2 games. Far too early to be tub thumping about what the new approach of borrowing fringe players will achieve. Sam rush can hardly spit out a sentance without stuttering and starting again. Maybe thats what we're doing Stuttering and starting again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Although he phrased it very presumptuously, I also think we were on course to finish in the POs this season under Clough. So stick that in your e-cig and nebulise it! Not a chance, but that's opinions for ya, he's gone now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Not a chance, but that's opinions for ya, he's gone now. What don't get is how some people thought we had no chance before, but two games later, do now. As you say, that's opinions for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 What don't get is how some people thought we had no chance before, but two games later, do now. As you say, that's opinions for you.Have you forgotten that Clough never won a home game in 4 attempts this season and 3 of them were losses. ie 1point out of 12. Under Clough I think we would have struggled for top6 . It may be a struggle this season for top 6 but we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 What don't get is how some people thought we had no chance before, but two games later, do now. As you say, that's opinions for you. He refused to even recognise the problems in defence, let alone address the problems, have the ability to bring in better players, or work with better players to improve us. There is no way we'd have made the play offs this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 He refused to even recognise the problems in defence, let alone address the problems, have the ability to bring in better players, or work with better players to improve us. There is no way we'd have made the play offs this season. Is that why we were linked with Keane from United? Wasn't he a defender and on the verge of joining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Is that why we were linked with Keane from United? Wasn't he a defender and on the verge of joining.Just like Hooper and Sharp and Baptiste etc etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Just like Hooper and Sharp and Baptiste etc etc etc Except their family weren't tweeting good luck at derby messages to him and the DET weren't reporting he was due to sign on a Monday (which would have been two days after NC was sacked) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Except their family weren't tweeting good luck at derby messages to him and the DET weren't reporting he was due to sign on a Monday (which would have been two days after NC was sacked)Clutching at straws to bolster the defense. Too little too late by Clough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Just like Hooper and Sharp and Baptiste etc etc etc All turned us down for more money elsewhere. Hope Steve gets a more competitive budget if he has to replace Bryso and Will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 All turned us down for more money elsewhere. Hope Steve gets a more competitive budget if he has to replace Bryso and Will.Yes would imagine he will also look outside UK as well for bargains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Although he phrased it very presumptuously, I also think we were on course to finish in the POs this season under Clough. So stick that in your e-cig and nebulise it! How do you come to that conclusion, we had 11 points from 9 games, that equates to 56pts, nowhere near the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleEatonRam Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I don't know if we'd have finished in the top 6 under Clough, and we never will know. But I think he was taking too long to sort out the defence (something which SMC has made a bit more of a priority since he took over). He had months to sort a new CB, and everyone could see we were short of cover. Maybe he was about to bring one in. I suppose we'll never know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 How do you come to that conclusion, we had 11 points from 9 games, that equates to 56pts, nowhere near the playoffs Simplistically yes, but for a few years now I've gone throught the fixtures pre-season and put down my prediction for W/D/L to see what I think we ought to be able to achieve. This season I predicted a total of 80 points (yeah I know - but I am a fairly optimistic person ). At the time of NC's sacking we had 11 of my expected 12 points at that stage. That's why I 've felt his sacking was unfair - I saw us as being pretty much on-track for a P/O shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 How do you come to that conclusion, we had 11 points from 9 games, that equates to 56pts, nowhere near the playoffs because it suits an argument that should we not get in them this year; We have a worse manager than clough. Lets forget the previous years in charge where he never took us past two rounds in the cup and our season was over in jan. Lets ignore that the trend was once again win, lose, draw, and think for some reason if he hadnt got sacked, we would have gone on a run to get us in the playoffs despite not looking like it or doing it before. He was an ok manager that built the foundations of a good team; but ultimately couldnt take us to the next level; however good look in your new job I hope you do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Clutching at straws to bolster the defense. Too little too late by Clough Whatever - guess it doesn't fit your argument that he might have seen the weakness and was doing something about it. Reckon Rush got Whitbread in because United pulled the plug with Nigel going and wed have been shafted against Ipswich without Keogh. Leicester weren't impressed with us announcing Whitbread joining on the Sunday - dodgy dealings by rush perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I don't know if we'd have finished in the top 6 under Clough, and we never will know. But I think he was taking too long to sort out the defence (something which SMC has made a bit more of a priority since he took over). He had months to sort a new CB, and everyone could see we were short of cover. Maybe he was about to bring one in. I suppose we'll never know for sure. How many clean sheets have we kept since McClaren made it his priority to sort out the defence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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