Should Nigel have accepted this?

[rynny]

Can't believe they couldn't find a middle ground.

Like an additional member to the the staff. An experienced assistant maybe.

He really did run the whole show. I hope he's got no regrets.

I think if it was suggested to him he would have blown it off. He would have just wanted people he knew and trusted around him, and probably thought an experienced assistant would have interfered too much.

Agree, hope has no regrets.

[Mostyn6]

I think if your the manager,you should have the power to do what you want,nigel did a great job ,when he came to derby they had money problems etc ,he managed to get a decent team from no where,and its always the same with allowing Americans to take over they don't like spending ,and maclaren come ,and he knows others will make the decitions so whats the point,he has been sacked more times than I can remember,again 2 stupid moves on derbys part,and im afraid derby will suffer now,

Sacked more times than you remember? Er.... TWICE?

[Mostyn6]

I think if your the manager,you should have the power to do what you want,nigel did a great job ,when he came to derby they had money problems etc ,he managed to get a decent team from no where,and its always the same with allowing Americans to take over they don't like spending ,and maclaren come ,and he knows others will make the decitions so whats the point,he has been sacked more times than I can remember,again 2 stupid moves on derbys part,and im afraid derby will suffer now,

Sacked more times than you remember? Er.... TWICE?

[Mostyn6]

I think if your the manager,you should have the power to do what you want,nigel did a great job ,when he came to derby they had money problems etc ,he managed to get a decent team from no where,and its always the same with allowing Americans to take over they don't like spending ,and maclaren come ,and he knows others will make the decitions so whats the point,he has been sacked more times than I can remember,again 2 stupid moves on derbys part,and im afraid derby will suffer now,

[Mostyn6]

I've probably posted that response more times than you can count!

[Alph]

I've probably posted that response more times than you can count!

Er.... TWICE?

[Dimmu]

I know the talk of Nigel needs to go away now. It's done with. But I can't resist asking.

Should Nigel have accepted a less dominant role? Do you think he would have benefited from a DoF and perhaps allowing some influence on his coaching staff.

Somebody posted a rumour on here yesterday about a fall out between Rush and Nigel over a trio of loanees taken from DerbyMad

Nigel appears to have successfully fought off plans to introduce a DoF when Tom Glick was here.

I also think with the speed Derby have taken this 'in depth review of the structure of the club' could lead us to believe that the higher ups have been plotting changes while Nigel was still in charge.

I'm not trying to dramatise things but what other phrase can you use apart from power struggle?

Rush came here to make things happen. One way or another that's what he's here for.

Could Nigel have benefited from relinquishing some power?

Should he have? Or was he right to run the show considering he was the manager?

Like I said what's done is done and welcome Steve McClaren, good luck Nigel etc etc.

But I can't help but wonder if maybe, when under intense pressure Nigel could/should have allowed these changes to happen around him and not have to be removed for them to happen.

(It's a slightly pointless topic now I know. So are 5 "Clough Out" threads per fortnight.

Can't help but ask the question though. Might have been worth a shot.

Simple answer really. Definitely he should have.

 

Rush is determined to get us promoted and clearly believes in "training, recruitment and footballing relationships". Soon we can start comparing Nigel's era to new one. I could start now, actually.

 

Training: This one is hardest of course, 'cause we are not in the training ground but if you compare Nigel & co against McLaren and his staff... well, let's just say latter has better reputation

 

Recruitment: Non League and Scotland vs. McLaren's experiences around (Championship, Premier League, Bundesliga, Eredivisie, Champions League, National team) and if you add someone like Venables as DoF, in comes some more knowledge. Fair to say, latter wins this too. And easily.

 

Footballing relationships: This would be quite similar to recruitment. Burton Albion vs ManU, QPR, Werder B, Twente and if you add Venables, Barcelona etc...

 

There's clear logic why change was done. I'm afraid Nigel stubborness and "family values"-way of thinking ultimately cost his job, not bad results. Can't really blame board, they surely did give him time do get us up in his own way. Didn't happen and Rush propably thought it wasn't going to happen.

 

Timing of Clough's we could argue all day long, but I do think next games are propably more winnable than what we had last month so there's a good chance to have kickstart to McLaren. That's certainly something we all hope for. Of course McLaren's contract situation had to be one big influence too.

[WilkoRam]

Sorry but where has all this talk of Venables come from?

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Terry Venables is 70 now and I doubt has his finger on the pulse anymore. 

[Spanish]

Terry Venables is 70 now and I doubt has his finger on the pulse anymore. 

not sure he has a pulse

[G STAR RAM]

I thought the Keane signing was lined up by NIgel GStar?

 

In other wordsm even though he had been incredibly stubborn about it, he had acted on it.

 

Or did Rush line that one up as well?

 

I'm not usually a board basher but I cannot see how they've forced this through now,

 

Seriously, would he have gone if we'd won at Forest and took us to within a point of them?

 

Derby County had Keane lined up, who had exactly lined up may be a matter that will be discussed another time!

 

I think winning the Forest match would only have supplied a stay of execution for Nigel. I think ultimately this sacking was probably first conceived shortly after Rush arrived.

[Stimacked]

I am still disgusted at the way Clough has been stitched up and dumped. He deserved better. I have totally lost any respect I had for Rush. The whole thing stinks.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

I am still disgusted at the way Clough has been stitched up and dumped. He deserved better. I have totally lost any respect I had for Rush. The whole thing stinks.

I understand your feelings completely but don't forget the clumsy way it was handled was not the fault of the players or the new management.

[eddie]

I am still disgusted at the way Clough has been stitched up and dumped. He deserved better. I have totally lost any respect I had for Rush. The whole thing stinks.

 

Was Rush the finger on the trigger - or rather, the only finger on the trigger? I know we are all Derby fans and thus by definition we need a scapegoat for everything, but there are some financial big hitters who are (technically - at least in name) the 'investors' in Derby County. I'm not sure who to point the finger at really.

[t'oldu]

I am still disgusted at the way Clough has been stitched up and dumped. He deserved better. I have totally lost any respect I had for Rush. The whole thing stinks.

 

Thanks for expressing this so succinctly !!

People were skirting round it last night but wanting to say it. Those who came too near were hastily chopped off. Strangely the person who did say it but in a long and unwitting way was Roger Davies !!  And he also said that he who takes power also takes responsibility for failure............

When Rush gets his 'oppo' in as technical director they will have all the power between them. Then McClaren might realise how he too has been manipulated.

[ronnieronalde]

Derby County had Keane lined up, who had exactly lined up may be a matter that will be discussed another time!

 

I think winning the Forest match would only have supplied a stay of execution for Nigel. I think ultimately this sacking was probably first conceived shortly after Rush arrived.

 

I did say this is a new experience for me, I need to learn how to handle it. I've got very fond of this squad of players and it's that that will keep me supporting the team.

 

As for the club, It's been a carve up Gstar and they didn't need to do it this way. I don't blame McClaren but I'll say now that I think he'll walk out before his contract expires.

 

When Sam Rush did the interview after the Brighton game, I knew from that moment on Nigel days were numbered.

 

Ask yourself how often a Chief Exec does an interview after an away win? What business is it of his to be in front of the microphone 30 minutes after the final whistle talking about how far we've come and how far we're going to go with this set of players.

 

Top 6 this and Top 6 that. He set a target so high it was easy to be able to say NC failed. he shouted about it so loudly the whole world knew it was our goal.

 

Friendly, open, communicative, approachable, adaptable. We're lucky to have Nigel in charge and I'm honoured to be working alongside him. That's what he kept telling everyone who would listen.

 

Unfortunately whichever way you spin it, he's full of **** and that's being very restrained indeed.

 

 We were working on a special project here at Derby, we're going to re-shape the way things are done. That was the line we've been fed for years.

 

Sam Rush has come in to create history, Sam Rush has been brought in to re-write the Derby County road-map. Sam Rush hasn't got time for all this build gradually ******** and he has no respect for Nigel and his old fashioned ways.

 

Now suddenly we've got Steve, we've had an entire review of the operations he was so glowing about for the last 9 months and we've decided it was all *****.

 

Everyone knows what we're about as a club at Derby County, That's what he kept saying.

 

I haven't got a jot of respect for him or any of the other board members for forcing an issue that wasn't there. For lying to me and for getting so badly caught lying that I don't know how they can re-build trust.

 

Others will forgive more easily than me, most have already forgiven.

 

Personally I think it stinks. I'm not convinced a guy with 9 months knowledge of football is fit to conduct a review and to judge that someone who fixed the club fixed it in the wrong way and needed replacing.

 

What's worse than that is I think he's replaced him with someone who will take the club backwards. Someone who has left his last two jobs almost broken, certainly ridiculed and defintely not successful, as far as I remember he had a few quid to spend down the road and in the end walked out. I remember a certain Paul Jewell looking totally shot, thinking he'd never get a job in football again, that was after Wigan, he truned up at the Rams but was already gone mentally. McClaren is the same for me, he's not mentally strong enough to stick around when the crowd gets hostile or the going gets tough.

 

Clough put up with a lot of **** over the 4 years, never hid, never shirked, never ran, never criticised the board, kept his head down. took the stick and got on with it,

 

We've lost someone with integrity and loyalty running through his core and we've replaced him with someone who'll get ridiculed and put on a funny accent depending on where he's working.

 

I don't buy it. I don't agree it was the right decision.

 

If we don't push on immediately, in fact if we're not close to the top 6 in 10-15 games I'm going to be going mental asking for his head. Why should he get time now to steady a ship that didn't need steadying?

 

Sam Rush has made an unbelievable decision he said himself  in his firing statement for NC "We feel now is the time to take Derby County to the next level".

 

We already finished in the top 10, if we don't go to the next level he's failed and he should walk. I don't think Steve will be around to see it happen.

[Mostyn6]

Ever considered that all you apologists who blamed the owners for Clough's failings have actually bought this on!??

I know if I was throwing money into this club with no chance of return, I'd already be pissed-off and that's before a load of deluded fans who won't hear a bad word against the management start bombarding you with tweets and emails telling you don't know football and to sell up. I think it'd be the owners that instructed Rush to pull the plug as all you apologists blame them.

All said and done, it's not the owners fault Jamie Ward didn't put his foot through the ball on Saturday and similarly it's not their fault when anyone makes a poor decision on the pitch.

Clough's management had led to this. There's never good timing.

[G STAR RAM]

I did say this is a new experience for me, I need to learn how to handle it. I've got very fond of this squad of players and it's that that will keep me supporting the team.

As for the club, It's been a carve up Gstar and they didn't need to do it this way. I don't blame McClaren but I'll say now that I think he'll walk out before his contract expires.

When Sam Rush did the interview after the Brighton game, I knew from that moment on Nigel days were numbered.

Ask yourself how often a Chief Exec does an interview after an away win? What business is it of his to be in front of the microphone 30 minutes after the final whistle talking about how far we've come and how far we're going to go with this set of players.

Top 6 this and Top 6 that. He set a target so high it was easy to be able to say NC failed. he shouted about it so loudly the whole world knew it was our goal.

Friendly, open, communicative, approachable, adaptable. We're lucky to have Nigel in charge and I'm honoured to be working alongside him. That's what he kept telling everyone who would listen.

Unfortunately whichever way you spin it, he's full of **** and that's being very restrained indeed.

We were working on a special project here at Derby, we're going to re-shape the way things are done. That was the line we've been fed for years.

Sam Rush has come in to create history, Sam Rush has been brought in to re-write the Derby County road-map. Sam Rush hasn't got time for all this build gradually ******** and he has no respect for Nigel and his old fashioned ways.

Now suddenly we've got Steve, we've had an entire review of the operations he was so glowing about for the last 9 months and we've decided it was all *****.

Everyone knows what we're about as a club at Derby County, That's what he kept saying.

I haven't got a jot of respect for him or any of the other board members for forcing an issue that wasn't there. For lying to me and for getting so badly caught lying that I don't know how they can re-build trust.

Others will forgive more easily than me, most have already forgiven.

Personally I think it stinks. I'm not convinced a guy with 9 months knowledge of football is fit to conduct a review and to judge that someone who fixed the club fixed it in the wrong way and needed replacing.

What's worse than that is I think he's replaced him with someone who will take the club backwards. Someone who has left his last two jobs almost broken, certainly ridiculed and defintely not successful, as far as I remember he had a few quid to spend down the road and in the end walked out. I remember a certain Paul Jewell looking totally shot, thinking he'd never get a job in football again, that was after Wigan, he truned up at the Rams but was already gone mentally. McClaren is the same for me, he's not mentally strong enough to stick around when the crowd gets hostile or the going gets tough.

Clough put up with a lot of **** over the 4 years, never hid, never shirked, never ran, never criticised the board, kept his head down. took the stick and got on with it,

We've lost someone with integrity and loyalty running through his core and we've replaced him with someone who'll get ridiculed and put on a funny accent depending on where he's working.

I don't buy it. I don't agree it was the right decision.

If we don't push on immediately, in fact if we're not close to the top 6 in 10-15 games I'm going to be going mental asking for his head. Why should he get time now to steady a ship that didn't need steadying?

Sam Rush has made an unbelievable decision he said himself in his firing statement for NC "We feel now is the time to take Derby County to the next level".

We already finished in the top 10, if we don't go to the next level he's failed and he should walk. I don't think Steve will be around to see it happen.

9 months experience? Come on Ronnie, he has been around football longer than that and probably at a higher level than Derby County.

I understand that you think Nigel has been shat upon and Rush has been devious but trust me Rush has been very open about how much pressure Nigel would be under this season for quite a few months. Ignore all the radio interviews, its just paying lip service.

Just like now when Rush is praising Clough deep down he probably would rather be saying he is a stubborn man who was holding the club back.

I am very grateful for what Clough has done and, as you will know, backed him throughout some of his very darkest moments.

I can't help but feel though that the club has been given a very timely booster and, in a matter of 3 days, been rid of what I consider to have been an amateurish set up immediately below management level.

Stick with it Ronnie, we're going to need as much support as possible to make the next push on towards the top of this division.

[ronnieronalde]

Ever considered that all you apologists who blamed the owners for Clough's failings have actually bought this on!??

I know if I was throwing money into this club with no chance of return, I'd already be pissed-off and that's before a load of deluded fans who won't hear a bad word against the management start bombarding you with tweets and emails telling you don't know football and to sell up. I think it'd be the owners that instructed Rush to pull the plug as all you apologists blame them.

All said and done, it's not the owners fault Jamie Ward didn't put his foot through the ball on Saturday and similarly it's not their fault when anyone makes a poor decision on the pitch.

Clough's management had led to this. There's never good timing.

 

TIming or no timing. He did nothing wrong to the club. I don't care that you eventually got your wish to see him removed. What I care about is how it was done and who has he lost his job to.

 

You can talk about timing all you want.

 

Class or no class? The way he pushed out of the door?

 

Then what really gets on my charlies? Other than you who wrote about it on Friday, I don't understand how anyone even remotely connected o the club can have his fingers and toes crossed for us to lose against Forest.

 

I'm sick to he pit of stomach with Sam Rush and his falseness.

 

As I said loyalty is a massive thing to possess, you've either got it or you haven't. It doesn't look like our CEO places loyalty high on his corporate values.

 

Now, If you don't have loyalty, you can't demand or even expect loyalty in return.

 

I believe Sam Rush has made a decision that will eventually lead to him getting fired. I believe he has underestimated theoverall reactions and feeling within the game that it was a harsh an un-necessary sacking. I don't believe he is the best judge of what is right or wrong on a football pitch or inside the dressing room.

 

He pulled off a cracker in the appointments, more than enough to deflect the flack. But for me the way he has handled the Clough exit will come back and bite him in the ass, likely even before the end of the season.

 

I feel a bit sorry for McClaren as well, he's done nothing wrong but will have to try to pick up a squad that will be on the floor because of the stupidity of the timing of this. I think the squad will now be divided and I think any transfers Steve is allowed will only serve to deepen that divide. I don't think the board will fund an entire new squad and I think we'll lose too many games while he's trying to blend in his style.

 

Rush has forced this issue now, he should have done it in the summer or he should have waited to see how this season panned out. To force the issue because of a row over a player suggests to me he was itching to pull the trigger.

 

Until he learns how to run a club in a dignified manner, for me he can go back to London or wherever he came from.

[ronnieronalde]

I don't want to get hammered again for writing a stupid in depth post I love Nigel post,just because people are too biased too actually read my point, but I've got an insight and I've got an opinion.

 

Let me tell you how i think it might have gone down on Saturday. Bearing in mind i'm only picking pits up from on here, there has been no real information flow.

 

He got fired after an argument in front of the players on the bus on the short way home from the game.

 

We've just lost 1-0 despite playing well, we've had our captain sent off for what NC (wrongly) thinks is a bad decision but overall the lads payed really well. They gave it their all, as they do most weekends.

 

No matter what any of you think about Nigel Clough, I can tell you categorically now that he would have hated losing that game with such a passion and such a horrible hurt that if anyone comes near him to talk about football for the first couple of hours, he'd tell them to **** off. it could be his nanna

 

I know that for a fact. His dad would take someones head off just after a game. He doesn't need telling they've just lost. 

 

Not now Sam, not ******* now,. That's all it would have taken.

 

Unless you know what it's like for him to lose a game of that importance and that relevance to Billy fecking Davies of all people.

He's so angry on the way home it's not true. His lads have tried as hard as they could but we've lost, to them ******** and now I'm under more pressure.

 

Suddenly out pops Rush. (Is he on the team coach?? if so why/)

 

Not good enough Nige,  we're down in 14th and now Keogh is out, I need to talk to you about that player I told you we're signing on loan.....

 

I'm telling you, if Sam Rush has tried to talk to Nige about players after a game like that, he wants his bald nut looking into,

 

It's no wonder Nige told him to feck off.

 

They could have talked about it calmly on Sunday morning, give Nige a bit of time to get over the defeat.

 

It was forced, Sam Rush had a different agenda.

 

When you say he's been around top level football GStar, unless I'm mistaken he's never been involved in the operational side of football, ok so he's made his money acting on behalf of footballers transfers, some marketing, images, brand rights etc, but had he ever been inside a dressing room? Had he ever been this close to a squad of players? Had he ever been responsible for gutting and then shaping the direction of a football club from top to bottom? Had he ever done that?

 

That's what he's just done at Derby County, he;s just totally gutted the place and thrown together a brand new structure in 3 days. It's one hell of a responsibility. It's one hell of a decision.

 

That's what I mean by 9 months knowledge.

 

I understand Nigel Clough has been sacked, I understand overall his results were not good enough to keep him in a job, I accept that he's gone. I understand he should possibly have listened to those who said he should improve his coaching set up. I get all of that and I won't argue against it.

 

Everything else, the reason behind, the way it was pushed and the subsequent appointments since make me want to vomit on Sam Rushes lovely suede shoes.