Fed up of Clough

[Ramarena]

 

 

Payer of the season... Tyson. Sat on a 10k whack doing cock all!

 

Player of the season, Keogh. Voted by the fans. The fans who love a trier. I don't think he's as good as Barker first was, nor Shackell first was/is. Age is now slipping away from his side, he's not performed well enough, overlooked by average CB's for Rep Ireland. I don't see why anybody would offer more than £1,000,000 for him. Really average. Isn't a leader despite being captain. Error prone. He does those 50 yard headless chicken runs and tackles than fans love which seem to overlook alot of his downfalls. I like the bloke, can't knock his commitment, I just don't think he's anything other than an average Championship defender. 

 

 

He was also relegated out of the Champ with Cov. 

[SuperSheep]

Nonsense mate, you don't know for one minute whether anyone would do any better, worse or exactly the same.

aye I don't know if they would be any better.

But does that mean people have to look past what he has done? He has done great with the youths and all I see is people saying another manager could MAYBE do better.

But they haven't! Clough took the team when we were a piece of crap with high wage bills and he has lowered that and got prospects coming through the academy.

Please don't take it away from him with a "someone else could do better"

If another manager wanted to. He would of took the team when he had the chance.

Sure I think he's on his last legs at his time at derby. But in his first couple of years I think he did a decent job.

[WilkoRam]

I've read a lot of posts now about how Nigel has transformed the club, worked wonders changing it all, reducing the wage bill, bringing on youth etc. although I do thank and appreciate Nigel for the youth setup these weren't decision made by him were they. It's not like he came in and turned to the board and said "no no, put your chequebooks away I've got a better idea" and than took it upon himself to rid the club of high earners and bring through young players.

Any manager coming in at the same time would have had the same blueprint handed to them. The same conditions to work under. Any other manager would have reduced the wage bill and relied more on youth because they had to. This was the new plan of the club, not Nigel.

If you think he's done a good job then that's one thing but to list some of his achievements as 'reducing the wage bill' and 'brining in youth' is like listing 'he takes training sessions'. In short they were part of the job description. Run the team so the club can be somewhat self sufficient. It's not like managers in the past didn't put youth players in. Addison, Barnes, Holmes, Nyatanga off the top of my head. Using youth players isn't ground breaking.

On the flip side you can easily list under his faults as 'too narrow in the search of new players' we don't appear to have the most extensive scouting process. I also don't see his ability to spot raw potential, or nurture raw potential. How many signings that have "failed" do people chalk up to 'didn't kick on'? No manager has a 100% record when it comes to signings but, as is the case with most things, the good must outweigh the bad.

[Guest]

Not in my opinion. Most new managers come in and immediately bring their own players with them rather than having to dismantle a whole squad and rebuild from scratch.

Look at the stats tonight, particularly possession and shots on target.

Are we getting turned over by teams that have spent millions more than us?

Yes I know that results are the be all and end all but if you carry on outplaying teams sooner or later results will come.

fair enough its all about opinions.

I see a club though that has stagnated; last year was cloughs team, he may not have had the millions others have had, but he has been afforded time and facilities unmatched in this league.

When I look at the Norwich's, palaces, and Swanseas of the league, it shows it can be done on a moderate budget, and lets not kid ourselves, after 5 years we think a successful season is challenging for promotion....thats only the 6th best team in this league.

Im afraid for me he will never get us promotion.

[G STAR RAM]

I've read a lot of posts now about how Nigel has transformed the club, worked wonders changing it all, reducing the wage bill, bringing on youth etc. although I do thank and appreciate Nigel for the youth setup these weren't decision made by him were they. It's not like he came in and turned to the board and said "no no, put your chequebooks away I've got a better idea" and than took it upon himself to rid the club of high earners and bring through young players.

Any manager coming in at the same time would have had the same blueprint handed to them. The same conditions to work under. Any other manager would have reduced the wage bill and relied more on youth because they had to. This was the new plan of the club, not Nigel.

If you think he's done a good job then that's one thing but to list some of his achievements as 'reducing the wage bill' and 'brining in youth' is like listing 'he takes training sessions'. In short they were part of the job description. Run the team so the club can be somewhat self sufficient. It's not like managers in the past didn't put youth players in. Addison, Barnes, Holmes, Nyatanga off the top of my head. Using youth players isn't ground breaking.

On the flip side you can easily list under his faults as 'too narrow in the search of new players' we don't appear to have the most extensive scouting process. I also don't see his ability to spot raw potential, or nurture raw potential. How many signings that have "failed" do people chalk up to 'didn't kick on'? No manager has a 100% record when it comes to signings but, as is the case with most things, the good must outweigh the bad.

 

To be fair none of us have any idea how much input Nigel had into the financial side of matters. He always had a close working relationship with Glick and I am sure he will have had some input in agreeing a playing budget.

[G STAR RAM]

fair enough its all about opinions.

I see a club though that has stagnated; last year was cloughs team, he may not have had the millions others have had, but he has been afforded time and facilities unmatched in this league.

When I look at the Norwich's, palaces, and Swanseas of the league, it shows it can be done on a moderate budget, and lets not kid ourselves, after 5 years we think a successful season is challenging for promotion....thats only the 6th best team in this league.

Im afraid for me he will never get us promotion.

 

What do you base your stagnation claim on though? League position, quality of football? Neither have stagnated in my opinion, both have improved year on year (perhaps with the exception of one season)

 

Other than the above I'm not sure what measurement for saying a team has stagnated.

[WilkoRam]

To be fair none of us have any idea how much input Nigel had into the financial side of matters. He always had a close working relationship with Glick and I am sure he will have had some input in agreeing a playing budget.

Then people should stop solely blaming the board and absolving Nigel when it comes to not investing in players

[Antonedcfc]

At least we haven't done a Wolves/Sheff Utd/Portsmouth.

Yet.

[G STAR RAM]

Then people should stop solely blaming the board and absolving Nigel when it comes to not investing in players

 

I meant in terms of wages.

 

I agree with your point when Rush is saying that the Brayford money is there to re-invest and Clough is saying we don't really need to spend it yet.

[Guest]

What do you base your stagnation claim on though? League position, quality of football? Neither have stagnated in my opinion, both have improved year on year (perhaps with the exception of one season)

Other than the above I'm not sure what measurement for saying a team has stagnated.

18, 14, 19, 12 and 10 are the league finishes, 54, 56, 49, 64, 61 are the points. We havent won more than two games in a cup run; and this season we are again running at won one drawn one lost one.

Therefore over 4 years we have improved by 5 points and 4 league positions and dont look like breaking that sequence this year; to me that's stagnation.

[G STAR RAM]

18, 14, 19, 12 and 10 are the league finishes, 54, 56, 49, 64, 61 are the points. We havent won more than two games in a cup run; and this season we are again running at won one drawn one lost one.

Therefore over 4 years we have improved by 5 points and 4 league positions and dont look like breaking that sequence this year; to me that's stagnation.

 

Or over 5 years we have improved by 8 places (1/3rd of the league) if I gave you a sequence of numbers like 18-16-14-12-10 would you not expect 6 to be too far ahead in the sequence?

 

Don't look like breaking the sequence? Its not even the end of September!

 

Poor Moyes first season in charge and Man Utd won't even make Europa League based on this theory.

[Ambitious]

Agreed but I can't argue with a manager who brings success. My definition of success is top six....

 

It's unlikely though - you should never expect to finish above a team with a bigger budget than yourselves in my opinion. It's unreasonable, and unfair.

 

If we finish top 6 it would be due to a managerial master class, we're still bottom half for budget (it would seem) and for me we're the 11th best side in the division, so we will see.

 

As it stands we're 12th after playing most of our boggy sides, so, we are roughly where we should EXPECT to finish.

 

As I said, Leicester have a very good squad, you could look through their side and say...

 

Schmeical, De Laet, Konchesky, Drinkwater, Morgan, Whitbread, James, King, St Ledger, Wasilewski, Schlupp, Moore, Miquel, Knockaert, Nugent and Wood could all arguably get into our starting 11...

 

we have Hendrick, Hughes, Bryson, Russell and Ward that could arguably crack theirs.

 

and if you was to merge both sides, you'd be saying probably 8 leciester players to 3 derby players, roughly. 

 

No slight on us at all, we're just not as well financed as them - if we were I would expect to beat teams like us at home. 

[McMuffin]

We have at least 1M to improve but Clough says we don't need to!

[Ambitious]

We have at least 1M to improve but Clough says we don't need to!

 

I won't argue that I am frustrated about that, but, we don't know the full story and no-one outside the boardroom/management will.

 

1million after agent fees, transfer fee, signing on fee, wages and whatever else comes with a package like that - we'll see where we are in January and go from there I imagine.

[-JW-]

Don't blame  it on Metgod

Don't blame it on Crosby

Don't blame it on Garner

Blame it on Cloughy

 

He just can't, he just can't,he just can't do anything right.

[notts_ram]

Sure I think he's on his last legs at his time at derby. But in his first couple of years I think he did a decent job.

I do agree with your comments that Clough did a reasonable job in his first couple of years here, the issue for me is that he failed to kick on from those initial 2 years and has failed to build on the good start and just plateaud or flat lined. And there isnt significant sign of this changing any time soon. So I thank Clough for getting us out of the mire initially and await another more enlightened and capable manager to come in and move us forward.

[sheepshagarmy]

Very frustrating with Nigel. He has a decent squad he has put together on not a great budget and has so many strong points to his management. But lets himself down with a couple of weak points that he never learns from and they cost us time and time again. 

 

Yesterday was a perfect example, we played really well first half some lovely attacking football & deserved to be leading at the break. Then in the second half Nigel Pearson notices it's not going well & changes it at half time with 2 changes (something Clough rarely/if ever does). Then it's attack vs defence in the second half & then Pearson brings on Knockaert to really go for it & how the 3 subs changed the game for them. Us on the other hand, we are on the back foot & Clough does nothing to try and change it, I understand sometimes it's natural for players to drop deep, but then it's down to the manager to change it & try and bring the pressure off and Clough did **** all! Apart from bringing Jacobs on in the 90th minute!! As soon as Knockaert scored the free kick Clough just sat there and sulked with his head in his hands.

 

We keep getting in really good positions or playing well to get in good positions and ******* it up from not being able to defend! Everyone talks about how we need a new centre half which I agree with but what about our full backs!? Forsyth is having a dreadful season, Smith's been fairly inconsistent when had the chance & same with Freeman.

 

Ive stuck by Clough for the past few years because of the **** we was in but surely pressures got to start rising on him if we lose on Saturday!

 

Last point all the talk about our away attendances & to me last night proves why our support is so poor sometimes. Fantastic support last night loudest I've heard us in a long time, but will a lot of the people who went last night go to Watford? No probably not, because most are fed up with how negative we are away from home and despite our good away form you can't blame them! Traveling the country to watch Clough sulk if we concede and not to **** all about it. Massive shame because when we turn out like we did last night there aren't many supports better!

[Cisse]

Obviously I'm over here and you lot are over there so your knowledge about your football leagues are on other level than mine. Could somebody make a list of good managers that probably would be interested to sign with us knowing what kind of backing they would get from the board ?

[notts_ram]

Obviously I'm over here and you lot are over there so your knowledge about your football leagues are on other level than mine. Could somebody make a list of good managers that probably would be interested to sign with us knowing what kind of backing they would get from the board ?

1. Anyone other than Clough

2. Anyone other than Clough

3. Paolo di Canio

[Cisse]

1. Anyone other than Clough

2. Anyone other than Clough

3. Paolo di Canio

Paul Jewell, Phil Brown, John Gregory and Billy Davies ?