Nathan Tyson/Nigel Clough row

[ladyram]

I think this goes deeper than a case of simple manners though Wilko. Like I said, sour grapes.

But if it's manners we're talking, I know my old boss would make mincemeat out of Nigel. She often reduced grown men to tears. It's her job to be just a little bit ruthless, it's nothing personal.

But I can see your point, if it's true.

[Davey B]

I would like to know how the careers of these players Nigel has treated unfairly have gone, I'm sure it's been done before time and time again.

I'm guessing this is down to Nigel dropping these quality players unfairly, making them play in the U21's as he ***** himself that he's bought players that might actually win promotion. These players are somehow forgotten, the explosive strike force that was Theo n Tyson (TNT), how the **** were they not snapped up by clubs looking to go up? QPR, Wigan, Watford etc.

Doncaster and Blackpool, no disrespect to either but surely these two should have found clubs better than that?

Could it be a pride issue? not wanting to accept they are not good enough, taking cheap shots at Nigel as they depart. I understand it, who want's to be told they are not good enough? I wouldn't want a footballer that shrugs his shoulders and says ok, never mind I'll just go play down the league somewhere, cheers for the chance tho, appreciate it.

Have a chat with Tyson, Theo, Cywka, Maguire, Shackell yeah I'm sure they will be full of praise for Nigel, ffs. You think this is unique to Derby County and Nigel Clough? Look at Ibrahimovic on Guardiola who is regarded as one of the best managers in the game, oh but he's a nutcase, don't listen to him....oh ok, that's alright then. I'm sure Tyson isn't a nutcase and this is totally different.

This Nigel and Tyson thing is ******, pick who you want to believe but how on earth Nigel thought Tyson would stay fit and be a number 9 is beyond me. Shocking signing, absolutely shocking. I'm sure Tyson is a great guy, wants to play, tries hard but his body won't allow it. Plenty of players that have had their careers destroyed by injury, Kieron Dyer, Ferrie Bodde off the top of my head.

All this he didn't tell me, so and so told me ******, oh **** off. Tyson knew, how, when and why we will never know, I'm sure both are not being totally honest. You pick who you want to believe and that's it, personally I couldn't give a ****, we should never have signed him in the first place.

Sorry Davey B but I'm calling ****** on your ask every player and manager, you might want to try it yourself rather than going on who you have spoken to, I doubt you have spoken to every single player. I doubt Tyson can speak on behalf of every player nor can Theo. Have you had a word with Shaun Barker recently? ask him how he's getting on, maybe have a chat on Nigel? Strange that you only ever pop up to defend players that are not good enough and moved on, blasting Nigel. Are you a Derby fan or a players mate? any comments on how games recently or are you here just to spread your vast inside knowledge on how the footballing world views our club and manager. What do you hope to gain by it? for us all to believe the word of some guy on the internet and go down Pride Park in numbers and protest, Nigel Out!! Get a decent manager in that brings back the TNT striker force that blasts us to the Premiership?

I said most not all, There's a massive difference. Derby County is a big club and would attract many players but they won't come while he is the manager. Word gets out and players talk.

Everyone has an opinion. Yours is probably based on an opinion that has been formed from what you have read in a paper or from conversations you have had with friends about various derby county related topics. My opinion is based on what I have seen, heard 1st hand and what I have heard from others.. When you hear the same thing more than 3 or 4 times related to the same topic it suggests that what is been said is more likely to be true rather than fabricated.

Nobody likes to read negative comments about their club, but sometimes you just have to believe what people say, and unfortunately this is a time to believe what I'm saying. I would like to see derby progress, but this will not happen under clough. His appointment was made and that's fair enough, but if his name wasn't clough there is no way he would still be in his job.

The reason players comment when they leave is because they can't pass a comment while they are still there. They are all fighting to get into a squad to make the most of their career. If they pass a comment their Derby County career would be as good as over because Clough does not like anyone who has an opinion that does not mirror his own.

[Ambitious]

Finally, someone is realizing that there is a pattern. You ask most players in the champ if they would play for Derby and they would say yes because the stadium is nice and the fan base is good. Ask them if they would play for clough and the majority would say "no chance". Clough is not liked by players or other managers. This is why Derby rarely get players from other championship clubs because no one wants to deal with clough, hence why he has to shop in the lower leagues or abroad.

Seriously, he needs to go.

 

Biggest load of ***** I have read - players from abroad? 

 

Eustace - championship player

Grant - championship player

Martin - Premier/Championship player (came back incidentally)

Forsyth - championship player (came back too)

Smith - premier league player

Russell - scottish premier league

Keogh - championship player

Coutts - league one/championship player

James O'Connor - championship player

Sammon - premier league player

Freeman - championship player

Jacobs - league two player

 

Last two years transfer dealings for the first team - you've got a strong case with ONE singular player. 

[Day]

I said most not all, There's a massive difference. Derby County is a big club and would attract many players but they won't come while he is the manager. Word gets out and players talk.

Everyone has an opinion. Yours is probably based on an opinion that has been formed from what you have read in a paper or from conversations you have had with friends about various derby county related topics. My opinion is based on what I have seen, heard 1st hand and what I have heard from others.. When you hear the same thing more than 3 or 4 times related to the same topic it suggests that what is been said is more likely to be true rather than fabricated.

Nobody likes to read negative comments about their club, but sometimes you just have to believe what people say, and unfortunately this is a time to believe what I'm saying. I would like to see derby progress, but this will not happen under clough. His appointment was made and that's fair enough, but if his name wasn't clough there is no way he would still be in his job.

The reason players comment when they leave is because they can't pass a comment while they are still there. They are all fighting to get into a squad to make the most of their career. If they pass a comment their Derby County career would be as good as over because Clough does not like anyone who has an opinion that does not mirror his own.

 

Fair enough, are any of these players you have spoken to currently in the first team now and getting games or players that have left the club?

 

I can understand players must be frustrated, but at the same time you must also understand that the manager must get pissed off when they've signed players that fail to make the impact they wanted.

 

Managers have different man management styles and Nigel's isn't one that will suit every player, same goes with every manager. Players will come and go, that's football. Find me one club and manager that hasn't had players leave and take a swipe at the club, just one.

 

Nigel doesn't strike me as the kind of manager that puts an arm around a player, gives them a cuddle and tucks them in at night reading them a bedtime story, look at the way he blasted Freeman wrongly IMO, but that's Nigel, you know what you're going to get with him. How Freeman responds will be interesting to see.

 

If most players don't like Nigel why do they keep signing for him? Why did Jamie Ward sign a new contract? why did Forsyth and Martin join having experienced playing under Nigel?

 

If I was Theo and Tyson I'd keep my mouth shut and let the football do the talking, I'm sure Blackpool fans are not interested in how Tyson was treated here, they want to hear what a great club it is, how he's going to score lots of goals and take them back up. What better way to show everyone that you were good enough and stick two fingers up at Nigel. 

 

Dean Moxey playing in the Premiership, have that one Nigel.

[gcdcfc28]

Crap argument.

Paul Jewell was a ***** man manager yet could still attract Premiership/international players.

Who cares where they are now? Moxeys laughing his ******** off in the Premiership and Commons is playing Champions league football. Still doesn't give a manager a right to let a professional footballer to train with the kids without good reason. Not only will it affect you're ability to reach you're potential (training with kids) but you're confidence will be shot to pieces.

Miles Addison said he was treated poorly, why would he lie? Likewise with Bywater, Maguire and Theo. what are they gaining from making this up?

Read Bywaters tweets http://www.derbycountyblog.com/stephen-bywater-timeline-those-tweets-in-full/

[Davey B]

Biggest load of ***** I have read - players from abroad?

Eustace - championship player.

Grant - championship player

Martin - Premier/Championship player (came back incidentally)

Forsyth - championship player (came back too)

Smith - premier league player

Russell - scottish premier league.

Keogh - championship player. League 1. He was at Coventry when they were relegated

Coutts - league one/championship player. Lower league

James O'Connor - championship player. Was he not at Donny when they were relegated?

Sammon - premier league player. Wanted to play football and came to a big champ club. Derby offered his a decent deal.

Freeman - championship playerJacobs - league two player

Last two years transfer dealings for the first team - you've got a strong case with ONE singular player.

These were the players he got, but you can imagine the list of players that turned Derby down!

[Ambitious]

These were the players he got, but you can imagine the list of players that turned Derby down!

 

I don't doubt you're telling the truth in some sense, and would be interested to know what you've heard - if you can inbox me and i'll give it a read through! 

[bcnram]

Erm!!! Didn't Tyson say he didn't want to leave Derby?

[May Contain Nuts]

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He's looking for the molehill some people have made a massive mountain out of.

Granted he's looking in the wrong place, moles don't live at beaches, but then again this man is clearly a bloody idiot.

[Mr Tibbs]

These were the players he got, but you can imagine the list of players that turned Derby down!

 

Unless you're some insider at the club who has knowledge of his dealings, no, you can't really.

 

 

There seem's to be a theme with most of the players complaining about Nige, they're all absolutely shocking. 

[bcnram]

These were the players he got, but you can imagine the list of players that turned Derby down!

DaveyBS I suspect that you just have a very vivid imagination.

[Davey B]

DaveyBS I suspect that you just have a very vivid imagination.

If you think so.

[Davey B]

Unless you're some insider at the club who has knowledge of his dealings, no, you can't really.

 

 

There seem's to be a theme with most of the players complaining about Nige, they're all absolutely shocking.

The players are shocking for voicing their opinions or the comments they made have shocked you because you didn't know what the manager is like?

[WilkoRam]

These were the players he got, but you can imagine the list of players that turned Derby down!

I can imagine. I have quite a good imagination. I can imagine most things. You can ask me to imagine us trying to sign Messi but only if he came dressed as a clown, riding a camel with a bat in his shoulder dressed as a parrot and I will Doesn't make it true though.

[davenportram]

Tyson had his say.

Here's Nigel's

Clough disagrees, and said: “We had a chat at the end of last season about the situation and told him we were going to bring players in.

“Sam Rush (Rams chief executive) was in constant contact, several times a week, with Nathan’s dad, who I think works as his representative.

“Nathan did some pre-season with us but he has always known the situation, which is the reason he didn’t have a squad number. If you don’t get a squad number, then you are struggling.”

Tyson joined Derby from Nottingham Forest in June 2011 and he made 41 appearances (18 starts), scoring five goals.

Asked if he regretted signing Tyson, Clough replied: “Not at all, no.

“I think he was the best we could get at the time and on a free transfer as well.

“We gave him a three-year deal. A two-year with an option if he plays so many games would have probably been a better deal but, sometimes, you are put into a corner.

“I don’t think there were many better free transfers around at the time.

“Nathan started well but got that injury early on against Aston Villa in the final game of pre-season.

“He came back at Christmas, played very well in that period and got us going.

“The next summer, we brought in Conor Sammon, who went ahead of Nathan.

“Nathan then got one or two knocks, as he tends to. He asked to go out on loan and it did not work out for him at Millwall. Kenny Jackett (then Millwall manager) hardly used him.

“This summer, we signed Chris Martin and Johnny Russell, and Mason Bennett is emerging. So Nathan gradually got knocked down the pecking order.

“He never really had that injury-free run and so we never got an extended look at him, and he didn’t manage to establish that consistency we are looking for.

“We felt he had a chance to prove himself. He has played and he got us a few goals, which was good, but when you look at Conor Sammon’s injury record last season – I think he was available for 40-odd games – it is quite a contrast.”

Claims he spoke to Tyson about the situation at the end of last season. And Rush spoke to tysons dad regularly.

Mountain and Molehill spring to mind.

[ladyram]

The players are shocking for voicing their opinions or the comments they made have shocked you because you didn't know what the manager is like?

Shocking as in not very good as players?

[ladyram]

Maybe Nathan's dad forgot to tell him?

[rynny]

The players are shocking for voicing their opinions or the comments they made have shocked you because you didn't know what the manager is like?

No they were shocking at football (well I think that is what Mr tibbs is on about)

[davenportram]

The players are shocking for voicing their opinions or the comments they made have shocked you because you didn't know what the manager is like?

I think he means they are all shocking players who have been dropped because they aren't good enough.

Don't forget once Tyson got fit he asked to go in loan - got injured in his first game too. If he wanted to get back in the team he should have stayed with us and worked hard in training.

[May Contain Nuts]

Don't forget once Tyson got fit he asked to go in loan - got injured in his first game too. If he wanted to get back in the team he should have stayed with us and worked hard in training.

 

Bingo - he wanted it both ways.

"I'm happy to work hard and win a starting place"

"I'm unhappy on the bench I want a loan"

 

Derby sign Russell and Martin, pushing him further down the pecking order.

"I was unhappy during the loan, I want to fight for a starting place"

 

Not gonna happen - why would we waste time and effort on a player who's already shown that he isn't willing to wait for his chance off the bench, when we can't even guarantee that he'd MAKE the bench this season!?

 

 

 

Also, what a piss poor argument 'think of how many players turned us down' is. Seriously one of the worst I've heard. You could apply that to absolutely everyone.