No new CB

[eddie]

Don't forget how poor his distribution with the ball is, especially longer passes. How many times does Bucko try it over the top an it goes through to their goalkeeper.

 

Sorry, I'm not having that.

 

Bucko is probably the best passer of the ball in our back 4, and round about the 3rd best passer in the entire side. He rarely, if ever, misplaces a pass.

[G STAR RAM]

Don't forget how poor his distribution with the ball is, especially longer passes. How many times does Bucko try it over the top an it goes through to their goalkeeper.

Not many from memory.

2 seasons ago quite a lot but probably not as many as Shackell.

I think too many people still judge Buxton on how he played when he first joined and based on where he came from.

[curb]

I wonder what it is about Derby players which makes them so difficult to shift?

 

Do we think Theo, Tyson, Bailey and co are simply poor players (in which case they were poor signings) or do we want too much money for them?

 

Surely the key thing is to get them off the wage bill so we can afford decent loan wages? In which case we could let some of them go for nothing. We could then afford a decent centre half to shore us up, preferably a leader in the Dunne mould.

It's the way we go about it.

Everyone knows that the players currently out of favour are never going to play for us again, so clubs know we're desperate to get rid of them. So they'll either wait until the last minute when they can get them for nowt, or wait till the window shuts and do us a deal where they loan them out and only pay a percentage of their wages.

[bcnram]

It's called selecting the best side. He is an excellent defender but to some not fashionable enough. The issues last season did not lay in the direction of Buxton very often.

[rynny]

How can our CBs score so many headers last season yet concede so many? If we dominate the opposition's penalty area surely we should do in our own?

[CornwallRam]

. That's not the case at all. I think some people need a Derby County defensive reality check. Look at last seasons game at Blackpool away how the hell did we lose that game. Answer we concede sloppy goals as we did away most of last season. What's going to change !

We conceded most goals last season from attacks that came down our left. Hopefully that weakness has now been sorted.

 

I think Jake is a far better defender than people give him credit for. He's brave, good in the air, strong in the tackle, good positionally and has reasonable distribution. Where he's weak is that he turns really slowly and has poor acceleration. Thus, he struggles against quick, mobile strikers. For much of last season he was playing with an injury, so he looked worse than he really is.

 

I think that if Keogh and Buxton stay fit they are just about adequate for a top six challenge. However, I think that Jake's real weakness is his inability to stay fit - and by the law of averages Keogh is due an injury. I can understand the logic - why pay out an extra £3m (£1m fee + £2m for 3 year's wages) when we might be able to get by? But I really do think that it'll be false economy. IMO it's most likely that Jake and Keogh won't stay fit, OB will break down again and Barker won't be back this season - if at all. Gjokaj and Hanson will be OK for cover, but no one can expect a promotion push with baby centre-backs playing regularly. What will happen is that we'll be chasing loanees and they are so hit and miss.

 

I say we should bite the bullet and get a permanent partner for Keogh who is better than Jake - it won't be cheap, but it will be more cost effective than getting a loan from a position of desperation. To me, with the addition of a quality centre-half, we have a squad capable of automatic promotion - with a fit Buxton we might scrape top six, and with a patched up defence we'll scrape top half.

[bcnram]

. The problem is IMO that Keogh and Bucko are too similar. ie they both are a bit static sometimes and lack pace. Cloughie needs to sort the defence out one way or another for a top 6 finish. It's not rocket science that we concede too many goals and what's going to change for next season.

A goalkeeper with better control of the area in front of him is hopefully going to be a positive change. Keogh getting on with his own job instead of trying to do other peoples leaving himself out of position would be useful.The extra height at left back will help (although his lack of pace is a concern). 

[G STAR RAM]

. That's not the case at all. I think some people need a Derby County defensive reality check. Look at last seasons game at Blackpool away how the hell did we lose that game. Answer we concede sloppy goals as we did away most of last season. What's going to change !

 

I have already said that I thought we conceded a lot of soft goals but I thought Keogh was the cause of a lot more of them than Jake.

[Duracell]

I wish there was a way to look at some stats in detail.

 

People criticised Buxton's timing with his tackling....well, he may have cost us the odd free kick on the edge of the area, but I can't remember conceding a goal that way. And Keogh's timing is often a little off as well.

 

I'm not saying Buxton is a brilliant player, maybe not even more than an average Championship player. But since when have average players held you back from getting promoted in this league!? May I remind you all that we were top the table with Mo Camara as our first choice left-back.

[G STAR RAM]

I wish there was a way to look at some stats in detail.

 

People criticised Buxton's timing with his tackling....well, he may have cost us the odd free kick on the edge of the area, but I can't remember conceding a goal that way. And Keogh's timing is often a little off as well.

 

I'm not saying Buxton is a brilliant player, maybe not even more than an average Championship player. But since when have average players held you back from getting promoted in this league!? May I remind you all that we were top the table with Mo Camara as our first choice left-back.

 

Other than Palace away last year I don't remember Jake getting skinned too much.

 

He is the sort of player that when he does get skinned will just pull his opponent down anyway.

 

I don't have a problem with that as long as it is not in the penalty area or we are not conceding a lot of goals from free kicks around the edge of the area.

[G STAR RAM]

If your right then that's a real problem.

 

Well it doesn't really matter who is at fault, if you are conceding too many goals then that is a problem surely?!

[G STAR RAM]

. Funny we lost so many away games.

Posh away got skinned and sent off.

 

Was on holiday so missed the Posh game so can't comment.

 

So would you put the number of away losses down to individual defensive mistakes?

[G STAR RAM]

. To be honest it's individual and collective. I think Posh away was the goalie Ledz also making individual error. ps. We should defend as a team. ie Sammon defending corners etc just as Rob Hulse and Howard used to do.

 

Agree with that but don't forget that will then give the boo boys another stick to beat NC with if we have our strikers defending!

 

One thing that I notice (which really annoys me) is that we never seem to leave a fast attacker on the halfway line when defending corners. Doing that means the opposition have to keep 2 back. It also gives us a great outlet for relieving pressure.

 

Another thing, as another poster alluded to, I think a very good goalkeeper can be worth an extra 5 or 6 points to the team and I believe in Lee Grant that we have a very good Championship goalkeeper.

[Asanovic]

Sorry, I'm not having that.

 

Bucko is probably the best passer of the ball in our back 4, and round about the 3rd best passer in the entire side. He rarely, if ever, misplaces a pass.

 

I think his reputation has gone before him - I'm in complete agreement, Eddie.

 

Last season he was great on the ball, and if anything, was rather suspect at the 'bread and butter' CB stuff - a few crosses that just needed a head on them that he missed. Not many, mind. The point I'm making is, he's becoming a footballer, not just a hoofer. Unfortunately he's got a reputation to uphold with Derby fans, so it's easier to go with that. Just like Darryl Powell, just like Connor Sammon.

 

I remember P'boro away a couple of years ago - he was at LB but was absolutely awful. How far he's come since then is remarkable, IMO.

[May Contain Nuts]

How can our CBs score so many headers last season yet concede so many? If we dominate the opposition's penalty area surely we should do in our own?

 

 

When attacking and facing goal your movement dictates what the defenders do, you have a clear sight of what's around you, and should know what sort of ball is coming in. You've not really got a great deal to think about and quite often you just end up capitalising on a defensive error - sometimes you don't need to move at all!

 

Keogh has very good movement when it comes to attacking balls in in this manner, and Buxton will throw himself at anything.

 

I believe that most headed goals come from poor marking as opposed to someone winning a physical challenge (unless you're, say, Andy Carroll), though I have nothing to back that up.

 

There's a lot more to think about when defending, you need a heightened awareness of what is around you, you need to be acomplished at marking an opponent, you need to communicate with your teammates, adapt your body positioning to the runs of the opposition, not get caught square on (forward momentum vs sidestepping has only one winner), all sorts of things.

 

Concentration is key and I think they both let themselves down in this regard.

[G STAR RAM]

When attacking and facing goal your movement dictates what the defenders do, you have a clear sight of what's around you, and should know what sort of ball is coming in. You've not really got a great deal to think about and quite often you just end up capitalising on a defensive error - sometimes you don't need to move at all!

 

Keogh has very good movement when it comes to attacking balls in in this manner, and Buxton will throw himself at anything.

 

I believe that most headed goals come from poor marking as opposed to someone winning a physical challenge (unless you're, say, Andy Carroll), though I have nothing to back that up.

 

There's a lot more to think about when defending, you need a heightened awareness of what is around you, you need to be acomplished at marking an opponent, you need to communicate with your teammates, adapt your body positioning to the runs of the opposition, not get caught square on (forward momentum vs sidestepping has only one winner), all sorts of things.

 

Concentration is key and I think they both let themselves down in this regard.

 

Add to that the fact that attackers are attacking the ball so are getting a running jump whereas defenders are often going at the ball from a standing jump.

[Alph]

The 3-0 defeat at Selhurst park was one of the worst CB defensive displays I've seen under Nigel. Keogh was terrible and Buxton was appalling. Honestly, they might as well of scored for Palace themselves.

But it's a partnership that will do for a bit. I don't think it's one I'd want to see in the PL. I don't think either of them are good enough. But for what we need now I think they'll be fine. I always though Buxton got a rough ride.

I remember a couple of years ago I think it was v Doncaster Away. Bucko gave a penalty away and made another huge error. But apart from that he was solid. Barker however was getting pulled all over the place. Like Howard did in that Remembrance Day game v Leicester. The forum (DET I think at the time) was hammering Buxton. Wasn't deserved.

Some players I think are under the spot light. Don't know how Keogh has got away with some of his errors. If it had been Buxton...

(Prefer Shackell over both. Apart from his Hollywood passes he was solid for us.)

[needles]

Got to say that we're close as hell to a proper go IMO. I know it's an old argument about budget balancing vs pushing the boat out, but still.

 

Getting in a centre half of good quality might just seal the deal. I'd be monstrously annoyed if we start throwing points away by losing 3-2 away and 2-2 home draws when for the price of a centre half we'd have won or nicked a point. Gotta be a Dean Yates out there somewhere.

[RodleyRam]

Got to say that we're close as hell to a proper go IMO. I know it's an old argument about budget balancing vs pushing the boat out, but still.

Getting in a centre half of good quality might just seal the deal. I'd be monstrously annoyed if we start throwing points away by losing 3-2 away and 2-2 home draws when for the price of a centre half we'd have won or nicked a point. Gotta be a Dean Yates out there somewhere.

I agree with this. Keogh and bucko are great and you cannot fault their commitment but they're similar types of players in many ways. I think we're short of a proper leader in the heart of defence, that could make all the difference but there's a huge conundrum facing us with the return of barker. I think we might risk it to see if he can give us the boost and calmness needed in the new year. That in itself is a big gamble and nigel and sam have to weigh up the liklihood of his return over bringing in someone of his ilk from the off...

[ronnieronalde]

I love the fact that we've given Barker the number 5 shirt. It's got to be a massive incentive for him to know he's got a squad number waiting for him whenever he's ready.  What a driver that must be for him.

 

Honestly though, I'd prefer us to have signed that talismanic centre half we were once tantalisingly linked with.

 

I think we've got a pretty versatile player in Brayford and with Freeman gagging for game time on the right, it looks like it's another one of those times we look to solve from within the squad. Maybe they trust Keogh and Buxton with Brayford slotting in if either are out.

 

Bloody hell I hope they've got it right.