top 6 finish Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 They lost to QPR at home today.We have a squad thats worth nothing like 20m.Hughes is knackered has been vastly overplayed.Hendrick blows hot and cold.Wecant even guarantee we would be allowed to spend any transfer fees on rebuilding.Wake up and smell the ovaltine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Is the Derby way working? What is our way exactly? What are our goals? Where do we expect to be in 5 years time? It all depends on the answers really.. I'd say yes it's working, if our way is to produce young players, buy cheaper players from the lower leagues, and retain NPC status.. But if we're looking for promotion, the board are looking for profits, and Bris Vegas is looking for good football with a touch of foreign flair then no it isn't working. As has been mentioned.. You can't build in the NPC unless you're improving your side each summer at a rate higher than the NPC rivals and stay clear of injuries.. In 3 years time, after what we call improvement, we could have finished 12th, 10th and then 7th and we're then all geared up for a playoff season, only to lose 2 key players, another drops form, another gets a long injury and another is old and too slow.. And then we drop down to 16th and we're back to square one.. The only way to be successful in the NPC is to attempt promotion every season.. Not attempt to finish midtable or attempt to build a young hungry side that might finally click 3 years down the line... If so we'll become the NPC version of Arsenal, but with less entertaining football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Agree it's working, but it's painfully slow to develope and vulnerable to two or three sales undermining the whole thing. Sam Rush is vital. He's made the big statement about not being a selling club. He proves it, and finds the money for a new striker, we'll be fine - if not, there could be trouble. I'm keeping the faith, but I could use a morale boost. I think that's pretty universal amongst us. On the other hand, fester just lost at Ipswich and announced a £30m loss in 2011/12 today. You can spend much more money for not much more result in this league, but you can't spend much less and get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Is the Derby way working? What is our way exactly? What are our goals? Where do we expect to be in 5 years time? It all depends on the answers really.. I'd say yes it's working, if our way is to produce young players, buy cheaper players from the lower leagues, and retain NPC status.. But if we're looking for promotion, the board are looking for profits, and Bris Vegas is looking for good football with a touch of foreign flair then no it isn't working. As has been mentioned.. You can't build in the NPC unless you're improving your side each summer at a rate higher than the NPC rivals and stay clear of injuries.. In 3 years time, after what we call improvement, we could have finished 12th, 10th and then 7th and we're then all geared up for a playoff season, only to lose 2 key players, another drops form, another gets a long injury and another is old and too slow.. And then we drop down to 16th and we're back to square one.. The only way to be successful in the NPC is to attempt promotion every season.. Not attempt to finish midtable or attempt to build a young hungry side that might finally click 3 years down the line... If so we'll become the NPC version of Arsenal, but with less entertaining footballI don't agree with the Arsenal bit. There is no way we could be that bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Sam Rush is vital. Sam Rush is totally and utterly irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 If something is painfully slow does that actually mean its working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The plan is to pray for a fluke promotion while paying out wages that don't match the goal isn't it. Nah, it's not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Yeah. Like Southampton. They're now in the Premier League and are Europes 7th highest spenders after last summers transfer window. All because they have a fantastic academy. Southampton benefited from going into administration and defaulting on their debts. Oh, they went down and then got deducted 10 points in League 1 but they got away with not paying their debts. They received £7m, £9m and £12m for Bale, Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain respectively and still couldn't pay their own way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramesses Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The plan is to pray for a fluke promotion while paying out wages that don't match the goal isn't it. Nah, it's not working. I agree. The only real hope is the development of young players and how much we can get for Hughes or others. I get the impression that when it comes to the squad Clough is allowed to spend what he ‘makes’. So I’m optimistic, but far from certain, that most of any transfer money might be given back for squad development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Personally my hope's lye on one of us winning the Euro Millions jackpot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Needs to be a rollover as the Bishop said to the choirboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Personally my hope's lye on one of us winning the Euro Millions jackpot.me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The plan is not working. Don't spend a competitive amount but hope to be competitive. Not going to happen unless we get a lot of luck - no injuries or suspensions, academy adds significantly to the first team squad, jewels are found for peanuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Currently it is not working at all - but that doesn't mean it won't. It is a little amiguous as 'working' will mean different things to different people. The owners want to make a profit and the fans want to be entertained - and for most the best entertainment is winning regularly. For me promotion is the definition of 'worked' as it clearly indicates success on the pitch and offers the only realistic hope of profit for the owners. So the question should be, 'is the current way getting us closer to promotion?' From that perspective I would say no, we're probably further away this season than last. I tend not to buy the 'better performances but unlucky' idea. I would suggest that our increased possesion is due to teams having worked out how toothless we are and being happy to allow our midfield to make pretty triangles around the halfway line. This allows them to attack our weak left flank and add extra cover to our strong right. We are not unlucky, our limitations have been worked out. So I would say that our perfomances are no closer to improving results, the results are slightly worse and our losses are increasing due to revenues falling, which is a consequence of the failure of the current regime to provide the required level of entertainment at the correct market price. The bright spot on the horizon is the youngsters. Will their development take up the slack and get us the extra fifteen points that we need? They might, but the need to stem the losses might also see them sold before they have a chance to make a real difference. In truth, I don't think it is possible to 'develop' your way out of this league because there will always be too many clubs who will overtake you by using their wallets. Not all money clubs succeed - but enough do to stop the cautious ones from progressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Sam Rush is totally and utterly irrelevant. Garbage. Either he does as he said and retains our best players unless silly money comes in, or everything Clough and his staff have done to date is wasted, and the pain we've had to grind it out to this point is in vain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawsonRam Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 What would happen if we got to the Prem? because lets face it the young lads arnt anywhere near experianced enough yet to survive in the Premiership..so we are building a side to be ripped to shreds if we go up..i think the 'Derby Way' is a good way for established Premier League sides but not for us yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Surely a genuine promotion challenge is to leave via the top door i.e. being one of the two strongest sides in this division? It says it all that we're on some kind of plan which in several years has left us nowhere near even scraping into a lottery with the final ticket (6th place). We're going absolutely nowhere unless Hughes fetches some of the higher end speculative figures, and even then we're reliant on Clough being able to win enough away games. I tend to think the aim should be top 2, the fact it is top 6 is merely because its a faintly achievable goal which the board can market with the potential of a good season. We're no further on than the other 12 or so teams that languish between the top and bottom only 2-3 additions short of making the grade. We might not even be talking about stagnation if this slump continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DcfcMadness12 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Currently it is not working at all - but that doesn't mean it won't. It is a little amiguous as 'working' will mean different things to different people. The owners want to make a profit an the fans want to be entertained - and for most the best entertainment is winning regularly. For me promotion is the definition of 'worked' as it clearly indicates success on the pitch and offers the only realistic hope of profit for the owners. So the question should be, 'is the current way getting us closer to promotion?' From that perspective I would say no, we're probably further away this season than last. I tend not to buy the 'better performances but unlucky' idea. I would suggest that our increased possesionis due to teams having worked out how toothless we are and being happy to allow our midfield to make pretty triangles around the halfway line. This allows them to attack our weak left flank and add extra cover to our strong right. We are not unlucky, our limitations have been worked out. So I would say that our perfomances are no closer to improving results, the results are slightly worse and our losses are increasing due to revenues falling, which is a consequence of the failure of the current regime to provide the required level of entertainment at the correct market price. The bright spot on the horizon is the youngsters. Will their development take up the slack and get us the extra fifteen points that we need? They might, but the need to stem the losses might also see them sold before they have a chance to make a real difference. In truth, I don't think it is possible to 'develop' your way out of this league because there will always be to many clubs who will overtake you by using their wallets. Not all money clubs succeed - but enough do to stop the cautious ones from progressing. Good post. But I remember Nigel saying that previously they released nearly every youth player apart from 2/3 that didn't really work out now every youth player has an impact whether that's playing for us or a club buying them as they are of a better standard now. I think we are a club that is still 1/2 seasons away from anything good as the only currently good thing is that normally when a club chooses to go the route of using young players they take all the good youth players they have from the u18s and leave the not so good behind. Where as we a solid group of experienced youngsters in the first team and talented youth in the u18s.I think our only current problem is we don't have enough players. As we always talk about players needing a rest the one player that looks most tired is Coutts as he has had to play every game because he has no competition. You can say ben Davies but we tried to move him in the summer and if we are counting Jamie ward as a striker then Michael Jacobs is our only Left midfielder. Then if we aren't that means we have only 2 senior strikers and one is on loan as you cant count a 16 year old despite his talent. I like clough and can see what he's trying to do but he never hardly changes a team only if he has to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 If I step back from the results recently, and look at the performance level compared to top sides in this league, and look at the fact that quality of our top players is higher than it's been for years, I'm quite optimistic. If we can improve up front, get Barker fit or a similar quality replacement in, and add balance by bringing in a LB who can get forward like Brayford on the right, then I think we will be genuine top 2 challengers. Brayford, Hughes and Hendrick are Prem players. Ward, Bryson, Keogh are all a cut above the norm at this level. A reliance on youth and a small squad behind these players has undermined us at times, but we're on the right curve. Problem is that with two monster games coming up and confidence low, the nay-sayers and boo-boys are going to have a field day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Problem is that with two monster games coming up and confidence low, the nay-sayers and boo-boys are going to have a field day. You don't sound confident Needles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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