7.9m loss to June 2012

[ramblur]

Are any of these losses due to write offs of contracts? e.g. could it be that this loss is the last of the clean-up and that the accounts 12/13 should see us break even?

Yeh,well I've been thinking of that,but there comes a time when you have to turn away from this possibility.Even if the likes of Leacock,Pearson,Byewater involved any pay off element,I wouldn't have thought they amounted to much as I think?? it was the last year of their contracts,and we're only talking about half a year at (I would hope) only part of their pay.I certainly don't think we'll be able to clutch at this straw nowadays.

[ramblur]

Plaza revenue i think worked out as an average of £1m a year. It was given as something like £5m over 5 years or similar. But id doubt the first year or two would meet the average.

the only downsize i think is the removal of the hotel - which with other hotels in PP and within 10 minutes walk would needed to have fought of established competition.

Bit depressing if we have to forego a slice of the action.Still,many a mickle makes a muckle.

[curb]

I've not seen the quote, I'm surprised anyone from the club would admit to it, although its undoubtedly been discussed behind closed doors.

Selling Hughes now would be a massive PR disaster.

[ramblur]

I've not seen the quote, I'm surprised anyone from the club would admit to it, although its undoubtedly been discussed behind closed doors.

Selling Hughes now would be a massive PR disaster.

Courtesy of Google,I find this which looks to be where it came from:-

[url=

Nigel Clough - “That’s what the Owners want us to do, build players through the academy and sell them to strengthen other areas” #dcfc

— Talk Derby County (@TalkDCFC)

December 28, 2012

[ramblur]

Just been thinking about that £7.34m for 10/11 expenditure minus total wages (including paid directors) and come to the conclusion it's a frightening figure (as is the 06/07 one in relative terms -only chose 10/11 because it's nearer to the present day.)

I started thinking about the usual candidates:- Heat and Light,Phone,Printing postage &stationery,Policing,Normal R&M and servicing of office equipment,plant&machinery etc,Various insurances (which could be quite high),Maintenance of grounds (excluding labour element),any contract cleaning and other contract work etc.

It just seems so unbelievably high.Additions to office equipment etc would be capital costs,so wouldn't figure.

[curb]

It'll be worse for this year. Add on the money we're paying Digonex for screwing up the ticketing....

[ramblur]

It'll be worse for this year. Add on the money we're paying Digonex for screwing up the ticketing....

Just as I was starting to get over the depression of past player sales 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' />

[davenportram]

It'll be worse for this year. Add on the money we're paying Digonex for screwing up the ticketing....

and take out any cost savings that may have cteated

[G STAR RAM]

Just been thinking about that £7.34m for 10/11 expenditure minus total wages (including paid directors) and come to the conclusion it's a frightening figure (as is the 06/07 one in relative terms -only chose 10/11 because it's nearer to the present day.)

I started thinking about the usual candidates:- Heat and Light,Phone,Printing postage &stationery,Policing,Normal R&M and servicing of office equipment,plant&machinery etc,Various insurances (which could be quite high),Maintenance of grounds (excluding labour element),any contract cleaning and other contract work etc.

It just seems so unbelievably high.Additions to office equipment etc would be capital costs,so wouldn't figure.

What sort of figure do you have in mind?

Also do you think it is high in the context of our situation or high in comparison to other football clubs?

[Gritty]

Yeh,well I've been thinking of that,but there comes a time when you have to turn away from this possibility.Even if the likes of Leacock,Pearson,Byewater involved any pay off element,I wouldn't have thought they amounted to much as I think?? it was the last year of their contracts,and we're only talking about half a year at (I would hope) only part of their pay.I certainly don't think we'll be able to clutch at this straw nowadays.

Addison, loss on Maguire, Savage salary? although I think I might be getting seasons confused)

[Igorwasking]

So, the owners acquire the club for 16m, and we have 34m of debts. I may be coming up with five from two and two - but does that not represent the 50m investment? Also suggests that the 34m is recoverable, as stated as only loans. When you consider the capital worth of the stadium, training facilities and playing squad, I woukd suggest that we are in a cash positive position. Just need to get promotion now. Sell Hughes for 10m, invest all that cash in the team, and away we go.....

Simples?

[Stive Pesley]

I think it's hard for us "normal" people to process loss figures in the millions without it sounding catastrophic.

My view is that the figures have remained reasonably stable over a few years now, so it's almost the equivalent of me constantly living on my overdraft. For example, if I earn £2000 a month and I have a £1000 overdraft agreed with the bank. The first time I spent my £1000 overdraft it was effectively a loan and that month I spent £3000, but then every month following that, half my £2000 salary immediately goes towards paying off the £1000 overdraft, but I still need to spend £2000 a month, so I'm running a constant debt of £1000 whilst my life/spending remains stable.

In real terms – if the club broke even or turned a small profit it would make better reading to the man in the street, but it wouldn't necessarily make a material difference to the club. The alarm bells would start ringing if the losses were increasing heavily year on year. But they're not.

On top of this you have to consider that the club IS in better shape for the future. For the first time in years we have a squad where almost all the players could be sold at a profit. No older unmotivated players on high salaries that we can't sell, so have to take the hit. Plus we have a decent academy set up that is starting to feed that model from the bottom.

On top of that the Plaza development was openly talked about by Glick as a method of creating an income stream (through the rent of the units) that would long term be able to replace the capital being injected by the owners.

It's been a long dark journey to get this far, but you can start to see the strategy paying off.

[CornwallRam]

I think it's hard for us "normal" people to process loss figures in the millions without it sounding catastrophic.

My view is that the figures have remained reasonably stable over a few years now, so it's almost the equivalent of me constantly living on my overdraft. For example, if I earn £2000 a month and I have a £1000 overdraft agreed with the bank. The first time I spent my £1000 overdraft it was effectively a loan and that month I spent £3000, but then every month following that, half my £2000 salary immediately goes towards paying off the £1000 overdraft, but I still need to spend £2000 a month, so I'm running a constant debt of £1000 whilst my life/spending remains stable.

In real terms – if the club broke even or turned a small profit it would make better reading to the man in the street, but it wouldn't necessarily make a material difference to the club. The alarm bells would start ringing if the losses were increasing heavily year on year. But they're not.

On top of this you have to consider that the club IS in better shape for the future. For the first time in years we have a squad where almost all the players could be sold at a profit. No older unmotivated players on high salaries that we can't sell, so have to take the hit. Plus we have a decent academy set up that is starting to feed that model from the bottom.

On top of that the Plaza development was openly talked about by Glick as a method of creating an income stream (through the rent of the units) that would long term be able to replace the capital being injected by the owners.

It's been a long dark journey to get this far, but you can start to see the strategy paying off.

I would say that it's a bit more like you reaching the end of your overdraft limit every month and then having to borrow a grand from your mum to keep you ticking over - fine until mum gets fed up with her sponging offspring

[Martyn]

I've just carried out an exercise comparing 06/07 to 10/11 on the expenditure side.What I did was add operating costs to admin costs and then stripped out the paper transactions of depreciation/amortisation.I then deducted overall wages to give a net expenditure figure.The results were:

06/07 £5.811m, 10/11 £7.340m.

Do we know if these figures include the academy or are they separated out elsewhere? That is one area that will have expanded over this period.

[CornwallRam]

Do we know if these figures include the academy or are they separated out elsewhere? That is one area that will have expanded over this period.

I actually don't think that we are spending any more on the academy than in the past. As part of the EPPP categorisation, one of the stiplulations is that achieve Cat. 2 (which we are) status clubs have to spend over £1.25m on their acamemy. To achieve Cat. 1 you need to spend over £2.5m pa.

I read an article from a few years ago recently, which I'm going to look for again and will post a link if I can find it, where it was stated that DCFC were spending over £1.2m on the academy.

Credit must go to Clough, Wassal and Short as they seem to be getting a better return, but I think this is due to better staff, rather than a greater investment.

[ramblur]

What sort of figure do you have in mind?

Also do you think it is high in the context of our situation or high in comparison to other football clubs?

I don't really know what figure it should be.I just looked at the £7m figure and quickly thought you could get 14 different expenditure heads out of that at an average of £500k,or roughly £10k/wk. Then I look at some of the things I came up with and think £10k/wk?

This is the first time I've looked at it from this angle,so haven't yet looked at other clubs the same way.Might do some time later.

[ramblur]

Do we know if these figures include the academy or are they separated out elsewhere? That is one area that will have expanded over this period.

The figures are net of wages,and I would imagine a very large part of Academy expenses would be coaches' pay.Non labour costs would feature.I wasn't so much looking for a difference between the 2 figures,because you can't accurately adjust for inflation-I was just thinking both figures appear high.

[ramblur]

Addison, loss on Maguire, Savage salary? although I think I might be getting seasons confused)

Wrong year.

[ramblur]

So, the owners acquire the club for 16m, and we have 34m of debts. I may be coming up with five from two and two - but does that not represent the 50m investment? Also suggests that the 34m is recoverable, as stated as only loans. When you consider the capital worth of the stadium, training facilities and playing squad, I woukd suggest that we are in a cash positive position. Just need to get promotion now. Sell Hughes for 10m, invest all that cash in the team, and away we go.....

Simples?

First part is pure coincidence.£14.3m of investment is equity,so that immediately knocks the theory.The actual value others might put on the ground is highly debatable.When you talk about cash positive I think you really mean positive net assets?

[ramblur]

What sort of figure do you have in mind?

Also do you think it is high in the context of our situation or high in comparison to other football clubs?

One thing I've probably missed is cost price of merchandise,which could be quite significant.In 10/11 merchandising turnover was £1.461m,and I'd have no idea of mark up.I suspect that purchases,adjusted for opening and closing stock,must surely feature in the £7m+,thus effectively creating the trading account.Still wouldn't affect my 14x £500k massively though.