7.9m loss to June 2012

[ramblur]

Just got accounts,and certain aspects reflect well on the owners.Last year they put in £9.8m and £3.9m has been signalled for this year.PBSE shows that purchases of players' regs amounted to £3,643,853,including agents' fees etc,and net sales £633k (no doubt after deducting anythying owed to other clubs.Because of the large loan input,the revolving loan reduced to £112,,255.

The cash loss was higher than I expected at £4.857m,but this was due in part to a reduction in creditors of £2.563m.

[CornwallRam]

Just got accounts,and certain aspects reflect well on the owners.Last year they put in £9.8m and £3.9m has been signalled for this year.PBSE shows that purchases of players' regs amounted to £3,643,853,including agents' fees etc,and net sales £633k (no doubt after deducting anythying owed to other clubs.Because of the large loan input,the revolving loan reduced to £112,,255.

The cash loss was higher than I expected at £4.857m,but this was due in part to a reduction in creditors of £2.563m.

From which I glean that they have put in over £50m and the DET's 'believed to be' figures are generally acurate.

Any indication of the debt breakdown?

Are the internal loans still interest and repayment free?

[ramblur]

Turnover of £17.276m (£18.121m 10/11) was comprised as follows:-

Match receipts 5.626 (5.551)

Sponsorship and advertising 2.0 (2.087)

TV 4.963 (5.188)

Commercial Activities 2.653 (3.022)

Programmes,etc 0.212 (0.221)

Merchandising 1.217 (1.461)

Other receipts 0.605 (0.591)

All in £m.

Total wages (including ENIC) were little changed at £13.047m (£13.244 10/11). The only paid director (included in this) earned £274 k (inc, ENIC).

[ramblur]

From which I glean that they have put in over £50m and the DET's 'believed to be' figures are generally acurate.

Any indication of the debt breakdown?

Are the internal loans still interest and repayment free?

Yes,working on rest (give me time!).

[CornwallRam]

Yes,working on rest (give me time!).

There's no rush - I can wait another ten minutes before I call you a slacker

[ramblur]

Debt position was as follows:-

Long term £15.489m (£15.055m PP loan+small bit unknown + £434k preference shares)

Short term £18.663m (£18.533m loan capital+£112k revolving loan +£18k other-part of the unknown from above that moved out of long term to short term.This class involves "at call" as well.

HP £0.38m (new HP of £34k taken out in year).

Gross total £34.19m ,which,after cash of £991k,gives net debt of £33.199m.

Will need to download Gellaw to look at interest position (please give me time-I'll work through everything eventually).Interest payable overall does seem to have risen to £1.398m.

The revolving loan reduction fooled us all-think my prediction of £7m loan capital may have been right otherwise.

[G STAR RAM]

Regardless of how much has been brought in from outgoing players, it looks like we have spent circa £6million on players in the last 2 seasons.

Never really thought that we had spent this much, do people think we should be in a better position considering the investment in the squad? Or do people think what we spend on wages should dictate how good the team is rather than transfer fees?

[uttoxram75]

Wages - otherwise we'd still have Commons!

[ramblur]

Missing items from the loss figure given are as follows:-

Admin expenses £7.243m (down a bit), Net interest payable £1.398m,Profit on sale of players' regs £461k,Tax £27k.

Note that profit on sales compares sales to net book value,not original cost,so don't get excited! Because of that,I doubt we made much on Shackell (if anything).The interest figure seems to have risen,which is interesting in the context of loan capital being interest free (apart from GSE loan).If this were the only interest bearing loan,it appears to be rising(though I won't know until I've seen Gellaw,and I've still much to do on DCFC (and I can't type!).

Preliminary look at investment gives me the following:-

Purchase £16m, Equity £14.3m,Loan capital £18.5m, giving a total of £48.8m.

Add to this the £3.9m signalled for 12/13 (and it may yet turn out to be more) of £3.9m and the total becomes £52.7m

I have to say so far so good for SR.He's given the verified figures on player purchases and investment.The only thing I would say is that clarification may be needed on the interest on the loan capital (subject to my eventual look at Gellaw).The results were broadly as expected (given Glick's comments a year ago),and I'm very heartened by the pay down of the revolving loan.

Looking at cash flow statement,their £9.8m injection looks to have broadly financed the following:-

£4.857m cash deficit on operations,net interest paid of £715k,£473k purchase of fixed assets (will look into this),net amount paid re players' regs £1.685m,reduction in revolving loan just under £3m,and in addition to the £9.8m,cash was depleted during the year by £827k (in other words add this to the £9.8m).

[ramblur]

Regardless of how much has been brought in from outgoing players, it looks like we have spent circa £6million on players in the last 2 seasons.

Never really thought that we had spent this much, do people think we should be in a better position considering the investment in the squad? Or do people think what we spend on wages should dictate how good the team is rather than transfer fees?

You have to remember that Shackell,Varney,Maguire and Savies had to be replaced out of that though.There seems to be evidence that,generally speaking,wages has a greater influence on success than transfer spend (if you pay high wages you've a better chance of picking up quality 'frees'.)

[ramblur]

The cash paid re new fixed assets represented a part payment in respect of the following:-

Fixtures and fittings £334k, computer/s £681k,giving a total of £1.015m.Part of this may (or may not) be represented by the £34k increase in HP.

EBITDA (earnings before interest,tax,depreciation and amortisation) came in at £3.7m (according to my calculations).This to me gives the best indicator of our financial direction,and it appears to have risen,unfortunately.However,the smaller (than in recent years) amount of investment signalled for this year makes me think 12/13 results will be a lot better.Unless the revolving loan has shot back up,this would have to finance the kind of things I mentioned earlier for 11/12,so unless the figure increased (or the revolving loan),it looks like a much smaller cash loss for 12/13 in the offing.

Calculation of EBITDA was as follows:-

Operating loss £7.04m (note,not headline loss).Deduct depreciation of fixed assets £1.996m,amortisation of players' regs £2.134m and add amortisation of deferred grant income £79k.

Every year I try to explain something new.A long time ago we seem to have received a grant of (from memory) c£3m related to PP.Now although we probably received the cash up front,the income from it is carved up (much like depreciation and amortisation) and spread over the expected life of the underlying asset (PP related) as a yearly addition to P/L.So although P/L features the £79k of deferred grant income,there's no corresponding cash to match it (received ages ago) and an adjustment has to be made accordingly.

I'm taking a time out now as I'm dog tired and there are some tricky calculations to be made within Gellaw and General Sports Derby UK that I don't want to get wrong. E&OE so far! (I'll recheck everything later).

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Interesting Ramblur. What I would be very interested to see would be the latest accounts of a few clubs side by side (not asking you Ramblur, unless you can do it). Most of us are convinced the club is being run as carefully as possible so goodness knows how, for instance, Forests, Leicesters, Cardiffs figures look? It would be interesting to see how clubs like Barnsley, Brighton etc are financially reporting? Any one any ideas?

[G STAR RAM]

You have to remember that Shackell,Varney,Maguire and Savies had to be replaced out of that though.There seems to be evidence that,generally speaking,wages has a greater influence on success than transfer spend (if you pay high wages you've a better chance of picking up quality 'frees'.)

Shackell = Keogh

Varney = did not need replacing

Maguire = did not need replacing

Davies = Sammon

I have always thought that NC has worked on a shoe string budget but to be honest there won't be too many squads in this division which have cost over £6million to assemble

[G STAR RAM]

Interesting Ramblur. What I would be very interested to see would be the latest accounts of a few clubs side by side (not asking you Ramblur, unless you can do it). Most of us are convinced the club is being run as carefully as possible so goodness knows how, for instance, Forests, Leicesters, Cardiffs figures look? It would be interesting to see how clubs like Barnsley, Brighton etc are financially reporting? Any one any ideas?

I obtained a copy of their accounts last year, if you think our accounts make grim reading theirs would make you suicidal!

Obviously this has probably changed since the death of Nigel Doughty and the takeover by the Kuwaitis.

[G STAR RAM]

Not had chance to go through accounts with fine tooth comb but it certainly looks like the proceeds from the Shackell sale were at the lower end of the scale of figures mentioned

[ramblur]

Interesting Ramblur. What I would be very interested to see would be the latest accounts of a few clubs side by side (not asking you Ramblur, unless you can do it). Most of us are convinced the club is being run as carefully as possible so goodness knows how, for instance, Forests, Leicesters, Cardiffs figures look? It would be interesting to see how clubs like Barnsley, Brighton etc are financially reporting? Any one any ideas?

I'm afraid long illness has taken a toll on my finances,so I have to watch the pennies very carefully.I know £1 a time isn't very much,but they all add up when you're skint! Apart from that,this kind of thing is very wearing and I'm feeling it today (compared to last year,when I was wrecked).I've got to be very careful with the kind of stuff I do-I've already found a mistake on EBITDA,which should be £2.99m,as opposed to the £3.7m I originally put.This came about purely because I expressed £79k of deferred grant income as £0.79m in my calculation,as opposed to the correct £0.079m.Pure mental tiredness-I've already started checking my other stuff,but I'm fairly confident.The mistake I made was elementary.

Having said that,the new EBITDA figure is rather more encouraging (still gone up though).If I get chance in the future I'll look at other clubs' EBITDA,as it's a far better guide to the headline losses that include paper transactions.As I said,I'm very encouraged by the reduction in the revolving loan,which appears to have been swapped for loan capital.The smaller signalled investment for this year is also encouraging,as it may well signal a much better result for 12/13.

Match receipts actually rising a shade in 11/12 surprised me a little.

[G STAR RAM]

I'm afraid long illness has taken a toll on my finances,so I have to watch the pennies very carefully.I know £1 a time isn't very much,but they all add up when you're skint! Apart from that,this kind of thing is very wearing and I'm feeling it today (compared to last year,when I was wrecked).I've got to be very careful with the kind of stuff I do-I've already found a mistake on EBITDA,which should be £2.99m,as opposed to the £3.7m I originally put.This came about purely because I expressed £79k of deferred grant income as £0.79m in my calculation,as opposed to the correct £0.079m.Pure mental tiredness-I've already started checking my other stuff,but I'm fairly confident.The mistake I made was elementary.

Having said that,the new EBITDA figure is rather more encouraging (still gone up though).If I get chance in the future I'll look at other clubs' EBITDA,as it's a far better guide to the headline losses that include paper transactions.As I said,I'm very encouraged by the reduction in the revolving loan,which appears to have been swapped for loan capital.The smaller signalled investment for this year is also encouraging,as it may well signal a much better result for 12/13.

Match receipts actually rising a shade in 11/12 surprised me a little.

I struggle to see how the cash injection has fallen so significantly on the previous year, although it would appear that the money is 'drip fed' as if I remember correctly the amount stated in PBSE last year was £5.3million and this ended up closer to £9million

The fall in commercial and merchandising income both very disappointing and don't see them turning that round much in next years accounts.

I wonder if they have been able to keep match receipts pretty stable with the increase in prices balancing out the faliing attendances?

Add on to this the additional capex for the screens and I can't see how the cash injection would have fallen by £5 or £6 million.

I think you may be right re the 'revolving loan being re-utilised. I wonder why they made no mention of the sudden repayment of this in the accounts. I wonder if the terms were becoming more onerous with falling season ticket numbers?

[ramblur]

Shackell = Keogh

Varney = did not need replacing

Maguire = did not need replacing

Davies = Sammon

I have always thought that NC has worked on a shoe string budget but to be honest there won't be too many squads in this division which have cost over £6million to assemble

From what I've seen of the annual player additions,the total of agents' fees/league levy could vary between about 10-20% of the actual transfer fees.This could net down the £6m to anything from £5m to £5.4m in terms of actual fees (the £3.6m could resolve down to £3m-£3.3m). You can't say how many squads have cost over this figure without actually delving right back through other clubs' accounts.Also,as I've pointed out before,the higher wage payers can attract the better free transfers (and even those better players sold for a pittance because their contracts are running out),and this has an influence on transfer spend.

[Stedcfc]

Missing items from the loss figure given are as follows:-

Admin expenses £7.243m (down a bit), Net interest payable £1.398m,Profit on sale of players' regs £461k,Tax £27k.

Note that profit on sales compares sales to net book value,not original cost,so don't get excited! Because of that,I doubt we made much on Shackell (if anything).The interest figure seems to have risen,which is interesting in the context of loan capital being interest free (apart from GSE loan).If this were the only interest bearing loan,it appears to be rising(though I won't know until I've seen Gellaw,and I've still much to do on DCFC (and I can't type!).

Preliminary look at investment gives me the following:-

Purchase £16m, Equity £14.3m,Loan capital £18.5m, giving a total of £48.8m.

Add to this the £3.9m signalled for 12/13 (and it may yet turn out to be more) of £3.9m and the total becomes £52.7m

I have to say so far so good for SR.He's given the verified figures on player purchases and investment.The only thing I would say is that clarification may be needed on the interest on the loan capital (subject to my eventual look at Gellaw).The results were broadly as expected (given Glick's comments a year ago),and I'm very heartened by the pay down of the revolving loan.

Looking at cash flow statement,their £9.8m injection looks to have broadly financed the following:-

£4.857m cash deficit on operations,net interest paid of £715k,£473k purchase of fixed assets (will look into this),net amount paid re players' regs £1.685m,reduction in revolving loan just under £3m,and in addition to the £9.8m,cash was depleted during the year by £827k (in other words add this to the £9.8m).

Only a small point but I'm pretty sure Shackell was sold in July and therefore wouldn't be in this set of accounts?

[Stedcfc]

Not had chance to go through accounts with fine tooth comb but it certainly looks like the proceeds from the Shackell sale were at the lower end of the scale of figures mentioned

Jason Shackell was sold on the 5/07/12 so wont be in!