Whats your thoughts on Sam Rush?

[ramblur]

My take on the forum:-

FFP has at last been sent to the 'Hall of Fame',to sit alongside 'global brand'.It always seemed to me that FFP was an excuse to slash the wage bill.We were told that others would have to become sustainable and go through our pain,but I fail to see how the club wouldn't have known a long time before us that there would be generous allowable losses (particularly as our man was on the LMC).

Not too sure about Rush's point about weak sanctions derailing it.For a start,sanctions don't kick in until the first window in 15/16,based on the 14/15 result (which allows losses of £6m)-losses of £12m/£10m/£8m are allowed in the 'trial' period.

[url=http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html]http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html

I asked that Rush gave it to us straight.He's made statements on investment and spending in the last window,both of which will eventually be checkable in the accounts.

I've always approved of the emphasis on a strong Academy.Rather than asking if NC would get all of the proceeds from player sales,I wish he'd been asked whether he'd get enough to ensure we progressed.If,for example,we were ever to get a fee in excess of £10m for a player,it would be churlish to deny them an opportunity to reduce their rather large exposure,as long as sufficient was given to Nigel.This is the balance they simply would have to get right.

On ticketing,they have my sympathy.I've a feeling that reducing S/T prices and delivering a reasonable fixed price (ie affordable in the current economic climate) for walk ins may produce dividends.Unfortunately,there's no opportunity of a 'dry run' -if you tried it and it flopped,you've got a hole in the finances.

A lot of people blame Sky money for all the game's ails.In reality,it wasn't the money per se,but what the clubs did with it.No one forced them to pay massive wages-if things had been done differently we could have had very well paid players,no debt (by now) and affordable pricing for fans (as well as great stadiums).Sure,we would have had a different Prem,but we might also have a rather different national side.The same sides each year would probably have vied for the title ,but hey,not much change there.

[eddie]

I'm not at all bothered whether he's the greatest orator the world's ever seen - or the worst. It's what he delivers and how he handles his side of the business that counts, and that is (I hope) going to be totally invisible to us as fans until he actually delivers.

There are still people on here who take the Mickey over Nigel Clough's 'umms', 'ahs' and 'errs', but again, it's how he gets his message over to the players - and what the players then do with that message - that counts.

Tom Glick, after all, was a smooth operator when it came to 'talking the talk' - and he ended up reviled in some circles and called 'Tom Slick'. He's ended up at a club where image is everything and it will suit him - I hope they're happy together.

When Sam gets busy with the transfer dealings, I don't want to know how much we paid, or how much we received, for anyone. In my opinion (and it only an opinion) it's information that shouldn't be made public from Derby County's end because it only assists others. In an ideal world, every Derby County transfer in and out will be 'undisclosed' - and everyone else's should be common knowledge.

[ramblur]

When Sam gets busy with the transfer dealings, I don't want to know how much we paid, or how much we received, for anyone. In my opinion (and it only an opinion) it's information that shouldn't be made public from Derby County's end because it only assists others. In an ideal world, every Derby County transfer in and out will be 'undisclosed' - and everyone else's should be common knowledge.

Problem is though,eddie, that many seem incapable of discussing the merits/demerits of a player without reference to a fee-if it's undisclosed they'll simply adopt a DET figure as gospel.The accounts will always eventually give a global figure anyway.

[G STAR RAM]

I'm not at all bothered whether he's the greatest orator the world's ever seen - or the worst. It's what he delivers and how he handles his side of the business that counts, and that is (I hope) going to be totally invisible to us as fans until he actually delivers.

There are still people on here who take the Mickey over Nigel Clough's 'umms', 'ahs' and 'errs', but again, it's how he gets his message over to the players - and what the players then do with that message - that counts.

Tom Glick, after all, was a smooth operator when it came to 'talking the talk' - and he ended up reviled in some circles and called 'Tom Slick'. He's ended up at a club where image is everything and it will suit him - I hope they're happy together.

When Sam gets busy with the transfer dealings, I don't want to know how much we paid, or how much we received, for anyone. In my opinion (and it only an opinion) it's information that shouldn't be made public from Derby County's end because it only assists others. In an ideal world, every Derby County transfer in and out will be 'undisclosed' - and everyone else's should be common knowledge.

Agree to a certain extent, in that other teams knowing you have a pot full of cash leads to prices of players rocketing.

On the other hand though surely one of the major things managers should be judged on is their use of transfer funds?

I don't see the harm in fans being told transfer fees once the transfer window is closed because at the end of the day if other clubs want to know how much money you have they can just obtain a copy of your accounts.

[eddie]

Agree to a certain extent, in that other teams knowing you have a pot full of cash leads to prices of players rocketing.

On the other hand though surely one of the major things managers should be judged on is their use of transfer funds?

I don't see the harm in fans being told transfer fees once the transfer window is closed because at the end of the day if other clubs want to know how much money you have they can just obtain a copy of your accounts.

Like Ramblur says, the actual net transfer spend will come out anyway (not necessarily the individual fees), when the accounts are published 18 months or so later, so at the end of the season would be no big deal either. My objection is to 'at the time'.

As far as judging a manager is concerned, there are many factors that need to be taken into account, and spotting a bargain is certainly one of them. Of course, how desperate you are for a particular player, who else is chasing the player, the time of year, the age of the player, how close the player is to the end of his contract and the financial stability (or otherwise) of the selling club are factors too. A figure paid for a player is not necessarily reliable as the value of that player is concerned, especially when attempting to compare with another purchase.

It's a belter of an equation - so many variables to the point of almost being meaningless.

[ramblur]

..... if other clubs want to know how much money you have they can just obtain a copy of your accounts.

That will only say how much you had in the past.It wouldn't,for instance,tell how much an ownership group might be willing to fund transfers in the present.

[ramblur]

Like Ramblur says, the actual net transfer spend will come out anyway (not necessarily the individual fees), when the accounts are published 18 months or so later, so at the end of the season would be no big deal either. My objection is to 'at the time'.

.

Get a good inkling in 3 months time,courtesy of "Post Balance Sheet Events",which always seems to give a global total for purchases (including agents' fees and League levy) and for sales.The only problem with the latter is that it's a net proceeds figure (so could include deductions for amounts we still owed on the player/s,which I wouldn't be able to calculate)

[AndyB]

I'm sure what anyone says, any business we do in the transfer window will be undisclosed!

[eddie]

I'm sure what anyone says, any business we do in the transfer window will be undisclosed!

As it should be.

[CornwallRam]

It came over pretty clearly that Sam Rush knows that wining games and getting promotion is the perfect way for him to have a trouble free existence. He's aware that if we were top of the league casual fans would pay £35 a ticket, the stadium would sell our every week and all (well all reasonable) moaning would cease.

He hopes that things will pan out like that, but he's casting round for a strategy to fill the stadium and maximise the income just in case Nigel doesn't perform a miracle.

On the transfer fee thing. I can see the logic of undisclosed fees, but that does ignore the fact that football is entertainment. We as fans want to be engaged, and the more engaged we are, the more money we will ulimately give to the club. If transfer fees are publicised, and we all know that our club is at least being competitive, then I believe that fans will feel more engaged. Why do the big clubs shout about the fees they pay - because it's good box office. By not disclosing fees, we naturally feel that it is because the club are spending very little. That way the mistrust of the owners only grows.

Now, would the extra interest generated by knowing the size of the transfer spend increase revenue more than the potential inflatory effect on transfer fees that may arrise - I've no idea, but I'd maintain that keeping quiet is not quite the brilliant business strategy that many believe.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

I think a large transfer fee used to be a boast about the size and success of a club. This was relevent when the playing field was pretty similar and the size of the gate was a significant factor. Now we have the era of the mega rich billionaires the size/success/boast has become, to a degree, meaningless to the prowess of the manager. Far more impressive to deliver results and progress with limited funds.

[uttoxram75]

Part of the demand to know transfer fees is the need of football fans to feel part of a big club going places. Its partly the modern celeb, instant success culture, but if I'm honest its also partly feeling superior to your rivals.

Nige's dad regularly smashed the british transfer record for defenders like Colin Todd and David Nish and it was a massive lift to know that we were buying the best, most coveted players in the country.

The fact that we are barely spending what we receive in fees is, well, a bit non-eventish when read alongside Wayne Rooney earning £250k a week and Ronaldo being sold for £80m. Its unfashionable to support a club that is not spending millions to buy the dream thus fans feel inferior and don't want to be associated with their club.

I can sort of understand younger fans thinking that the glamour of SKY & premiership football is all that matters, its all they know and peer pressure can make them feel inadequate to support a non-prem team. It does seem strange to me though when "lads" in their 40's (or older), moan about undisclosed fees as though it matters. An undisclosed fee usually means the difference of say, 400k - 600k or 1m - 1.2m. In the great scheme of things, its unimportant and older lads should know better.

We've been through the crap years, the average years, promotions and relegations, we've been down and out and back up to the top.

What is happening right now is the start of a new era. Plenty have criticised Nigel Clough for the last 3 years and what he inherited, but if what we are beginning to see now is the result of that period of rebuilding and preparation for sustainable growth, then we are on the cusp of a glorious new chapter in the story of DCFC.

Lets not worry about undisclosed fees, we know roughly what level we are shopping at. Lets show patience and support when our young team don't win 5-0 every week. If we could stop being so cynical and just get behind the team while its evolving i believe we'd actually quicken the progress we are making.

I'm going for a pint with B4.

[Stive Pesley]

Another thing to bear in mind about the undisclosed fee thing is that quite often there may be a Non-Disclosure Agreement as part of the sale. Particularly where the selling club thinks the fee agreed might go down badly with the fans. So contractually the clubs aren't allowed to disclose the fee in public.

As one guy sat near me said when the question was asked about the lack of transparency "it's a football club not the f*ckn NHS!"

[HeyHudson]

Ha ha, I heard the NHS remark as well.

Does Sam Rush like to start his answers by asking another question? Yes he certainly does.

Did it get on my tits very quickly? Yes it did

He also seems to do that annoying Cameron-esque thing of starting his sentences with an aggressive "Look...".

Pretty much what I expected from him to be honest and I thought he did well coping with people asking about transfers/policies etc which he had nothing to do with. Think some people just took it as excuse to have a proper moan.

Also, would like to think we're not that much in the financial mire that we can't afford a working microphone.

[Stive Pesley]

The crowd was quite hostile and clearly most of those who begged for a mike wanted to have a moan, but given that he claimed to be a lawyer by trade, I dread to think how he ever performed under cross-examination. His thought processes were all over the shop, constantly starting and abruptly stopping sentences, only to restart with a similar but slightly different sentence. I found that more annoying than anything else. I'd have thought a lawyer would understand the art of holding counsel

[eddie]

Not all lawyers are practicing courtroom lawyers, GreenRam.

[Stive Pesley]

Fair point

But they all charge by the hour – so finish a sentence Sammy Boy!

[ramblur]

Just noticed a mistake in my post at top of page.Sanctions will come in 14/15 (January window) based on the 13/14 result (which should have been lodged with the League in Dec 14) and the total allowable losses without sanction will be £8m.This £8m should be deleted from the 'trial period' I mentioned,which reverts to 2 years.

[eddie]

Fair point

But they all charge by the hour – so finish a sentence Sammy Boy!

Not true.

Daughter's a lawyer - gets a salary (currently taking a year out from lecturing to bring up baby and write up her PhD thesis)

[alexxxxx]

the highlights are on ramsplayer of the fan forum.

30minutes in length.