sage Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 We are currently tenth. It's not a bad place to be, only a few points off the play offs. However, are we better or stronger than any of the 9 teams/squads above us. I struggle to think of more than one or two. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_dcfc Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I'd think Brighton, Watford and Forest. Until we get a few injuries, then we could be smegged! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 January transfer window in 2 weeks, probably a question better asked in 6 weeks time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
networker1884 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 If we strengthen in Jan then we'll get in the playoffs. But we're not going to...maybe we can do it without. Oh, wtf do we know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagerbob Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Its all very tight. Whilst I could see us finish 8-10, I think top 6 might be a bridge too far. I dont fancy overhauling any of the current top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 How is it possible that Millwall, with a smaller budget than us and having spent less are above us? I thought the only reason the teams above us are above us is because they've all spent more than us.. I mean, the only way of breaking that top 6 is with a bigger budget regardless of how good a manager Nigel Clough is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorneoRam Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 How is it possible that Millwall, with a smaller budget than us and having spent less are above us? I thought the only reason the teams above us are above us is because they've all spent more than us.. I mean, the only way of breaking that top 6 is with a bigger budget regardless of how good a manager Nigel Clough is Come on, that is as big a WUM post as I have ever seen - I do like reading your opinions quite a lot of the time as you do come at things from a different angle but this is just a clear attempt to recreate an argument you have had on loads of other threads on a new one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisse Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I'd be surprised if we can keep our current position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 How is it possible that Millwall, with a smaller budget than us and having spent less are above us? I thought the only reason the teams above us are above us is because they've all spent more than us.. I mean, the only way of breaking that top 6 is with a bigger budget regardless of how good a manager Nigel Clough is Thank you for agreeing with me. Azure there is only one club above us with a similar of smaller budget, it's going to be difficult to make.much more progress. I think the other teams in our sights should be Watford and Forest. That woud get us to 7th. Then you're relying on one of the bigger budget clubs to go into meltdown as well as no-one overtaking us. In conclusion, Think we''ll finish top ten and maybe higher than where we are now, but top six is unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Thank you for agreeing with me. Azure there is only one club above us with a similar of smaller budget, it's going to be difficult to make.much more progress. I think the other teams in our sights should be Watford and Forest. That woud get us to 7th. Then you're relying on one of the bigger budget clubs to go into meltdown as well as no-one overtaking us. In conclusion, Think we''ll finish top ten and maybe higher than where we are now, but top six is unlikely. But we have had 4 years now building a team, to look at the budget in isolation is just trying to defend where we are at present, most of the managers above us havent had that luxury, also what about palace Im sure will be on a similar budget, or do they not count. Look at the PL, do Everton, WBA, Norwich, Swansea sit there and say, we havent got the budget to compete with these people lets be happy with what we have got, or do they try to adapt their playing style and personal to finish above the likes of Liverpool etc. Are you trying to say that you are happy with 10th because of the budget we have ? What is that budget by the way, based on an average wage per player v the rest of the league and taking into consideration signings, agents, backroom staff, and the academy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brammie Steve Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 We are currently tenth. It's not a bad place to be, only a few points off the play offs. However, are we better or stronger than any of the 9 teams/squads above us. I struggle to think of more than one or two. Thoughts? Exactly what I've been thinking Mel! In fact I find myself wondering what position we would be were we in the premiership this season on the form we're hitting. I decided that we would already have surpassed our magnificent 11 of 2007 and would at least be looking at reaching the safety points by the end of the season. There is not a massive difference in the skill level between the top 10 in the champship and the bottom half of the Prem. Of course I am talking of a Rams team which has a midfield genius like young Will playing, so it is imperative that he stays here. We have a good, developping towards a great, team which need fear no one. I for one would not criticise Nigel if he were to stick with the team he has and not get involved in the transfer market, buying or selling. A settled side is worth a dozen or more points over the season. We have some decent players on the subs bench too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 How is it possible that Millwall, with a smaller budget than us and having spent less are above us? I thought the only reason the teams above us are above us is because they've all spent more than us.. I mean, the only way of breaking that top 6 is with a bigger budget regardless of how good a manager Nigel Clough is FFS Bris, we've been over this one already. Millwall have Chris Wood who's been playing out his skin all season. Once he finishes his loan in January they won't be the same team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 FFS Bris, we've been over this one already. Millwall have Chris Wood who's been playing out his skin all season. Once he finishes his loan in January they won't be the same team... When does it become a valid point? What happens if they sign him perm for 1m, or replace him with an equally as good loan player? Do we know this wont happen? You can only judge a side based on current form, not what might happen in the future. Not that I am agreeing with bris in any way shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 How is it possible that Millwall, with a smaller budget than us and having spent less are above us? I thought the only reason the teams above us are above us is because they've all spent more than us.. I mean, the only way of breaking that top 6 is with a bigger budget regardless of how good a manager Nigel Clough is By keeping the same manager to build a team, get some consistency into the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 But we have had 4 years now building a team, to look at the budget in isolation is just trying to defend where we are at present, most of the managers above us havent had that luxury, also what about palace Im sure will be on a similar budget, or do they not count. Look at the PL, do Everton, WBA, Norwich, Swansea sit there and say, we havent got the budget to compete with these people lets be happy with what we have got, or do they try to adapt their playing style and personal to finish above the likes of Liverpool etc. Are you trying to say that you are happy with 10th because of the budget we have ? What is that budget by the way, based on an average wage per player v the rest of the league and taking into consideration signings, agents, backroom staff, and the academy ? Its the total wage budget I think. Metgod said our budget for this season is in the bottom six of the Championship. You mention Palace, do you think Holloway would have left Blackpool for a lowish budget? Millwall may well be a valid comparison, i've not read anything about them paying big fees or wages. Whatever our attitudes to Clough, he is trying to compete with clubs like Leicester who are reportedly paying David Nugent £35k a week. With reference to the PL clubs you mention - Clough does appear to believe he CAN compete with the clubs in this league, I would say that Palace, Cardiff, Hull, Boro, Leicester, Forest, Blackburn, Bolton at the very least, will be in a position to strengthen their squads in January, paying large transfer fees and wages to match . Do you believe Forest will get Sharp for less than £20k a week for example? Their owners are prepared to bankroll their clubs. Ours aren't. Yet Clough seems to think we are close to "being where we want to be", which most seem to think means top six.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Its the total wage budget I think. Metgod said our budget for this season is in the bottom six of the Championship. You mention Palace, do you think Holloway would have left Blackpool for a lowish budget? Millwall may well be a valid comparison, i've not read anything about them paying big fees or wages. Whatever our attitudes to Clough, he is trying to compete with clubs like Leicester who are reportedly paying David Nugent £35k a week. With reference to the PL clubs you mention - Clough does appear to believe he CAN compete with the clubs in this league, I would say that Palace, Cardiff, Hull, Boro, Leicester, Forest, Blackburn, Bolton at the very least, will be in a position to strengthen their squads in January, paying large transfer fees and wages to match . Do you believe Forest will get Sharp for less than £20k a week for example? Their owners are prepared to bankroll their clubs. Ours aren't. Yet Clough seems to think we are close to "being where we want to be", which most seem to think means top six.. But how would metgod know, but lets assume he was correct. Im sure the location had a lot to do with Holloway moving, Blackpool are also on a low budget, get low crowds and he probably thought his time had run out there. Im just wondering if our owners arent bank rolling NC to a certain extent, we were able to get Sammon from a PL club, Keough ahead of Cardiff either by wages or transfer fee or both, and Jamie Ward to sign an extension for what was rumoured to be a big wage increase. Add into this the state of the art academy and training ground we have, and the fact NC has had 4 years to build his own team, I still dont totally agree with the Nugent is on 35k argument, are you saying he is better than Sammon for example, just because they choose to pay them wages does not mean he is worth it. I think Clough does think he can compete in this league, he backs his own ability, my point is that why we shouldnt expect to overtake clubs with bigger budgets that ours. Is will Hughes being paid £500 a week any worse than Andy Reid on thousands a week ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 But how would metgod know, but lets assume he was correct. Im sure the location had a lot to do with Holloway moving, Blackpool are also on a low budget, get low crowds and he probably thought his time had run out there. Im just wondering if our owners arent bank rolling NC to a certain extent, we were able to get Sammon from a PL club, Keough ahead of Cardiff either by wages or transfer fee or both, and Jamie Ward to sign an extension for what was rumoured to be a big wage increase. Add into this the state of the art academy and training ground we have, and the fact NC has had 4 years to build his own team, I still dont totally agree with the Nugent is on 35k argument, are you saying he is better than Sammon for example, just because they choose to pay them wages does not mean he is worth it. I think Clough does think he can compete in this league, he backs his own ability, my point is that why we shouldnt expect to overtake clubs with bigger budgets that ours. Is will Hughes being paid £500 a week any worse than Andy Reid on thousands a week ? I see what you mean! I fully expect us to overtake clubs with bigger budgets than ours. I think we are well on our way to doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 But we have had 4 years now building a team, to look at the budget in isolation is just trying to defend where we are at present, most of the managers above us havent had that luxury, also what about palace Im sure will be on a similar budget, or do they not count. Look at the PL, do Everton, WBA, Norwich, Swansea sit there and say, we havent got the budget to compete with these people lets be happy with what we have got, or do they try to adapt their playing style and personal to finish above the likes of Liverpool etc. Are you trying to say that you are happy with 10th because of the budget we have ? What is that budget by the way, based on an average wage per player v the rest of the league and taking into consideration signings, agents, backroom staff, and the academy ? I'm reasonably happy with sitting in 10th now, but i'd like us to progress higher by the end of the season. However over a season, with injuries, transfer windows and loan windows, those with bigger budgets are at an advantage. My point is if we finish at the top of the clubs with similar budgets, even if you only include those currently in the top 12, we'd still finish outside the top 6. The fact that our managerial stability and academy strength will enable us to finish above others with higher budgets is there to see with the current table, but will it be enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I'm reasonably happy with sitting in 10th now, but i'd like us to progress higher by the end of the season. However over a season, with injuries, transfer windows and loan windows, those with bigger budgets are at an advantage. My point is if we finish at the top of the clubs with similar budgets, even if you only include those currently in the top 12, we'd still finish outside the top 6. The fact that our managerial stability and academy strength will enable us to finish above others with higher budgets is there to see with the current table, but will it be enough? Fo me no, but only because I dont measure clubs progress by budgets, in all walks of life there will be someone with a bigger marketing budget, pays higher wages, has a better car etc.....I just think that you should always aim to be the best whatever it may be and with whatever tools you have. BD got us promoted on a budget lower than WBA and probably a few others in the league, the purple one and Jewell had big budgets and failed, Burley got us into the play offs with a lower budget, are these a reflection on there management skills or the money they spent ? Im not knocking you if you do think its enough but not for me, will you be happy if Millwall or a.n.other club with a lower budget finish above us ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Fo me no, but only because I dont measure clubs progress by budgets, in all walks of life there will be someone with a bigger marketing budget, pays higher wages, has a better car etc.....I just think that you should always aim to be the best whatever it may be and with whatever tools you have. BD got us promoted on a budget lower than WBA and probably a few others in the league, the purple one and Jewell had big budgets and failed, Burley got us into the play offs with a lower budget, are these a reflection on there management skills or the money they spent ? Im not knocking you if you do think its enough but not for me, will you be happy if Millwall or a.n.other club with a lower budget finish above us ? I'm confused by your 'enough' comments. My 'enough' comment was this, are our non-fiscal strengths strong 'enough' to ensure we finish above 'enough' clubs who are fiscally stronger than us,I'm not sure the Billy Davies budget is a fair comparison. He spent a fair old amount, including £2m in January. If we spend net £2m this January a) I will be amazed and 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' /> I will expect more from the team. Obviously there isn't an absolute budget/points outcome, there are other considerations, some permanent such as a good manager and some temporary such as a centre forward having the season of their lives such as Howard for us and even more so, Murray for Palace this year. If Murray had scored at last seasons rate,this season Palace would be below us. I would be happy with 8th this year, Even happier with 6th. I think NC shouldkeep his job with anything top half, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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