it will be five years tomorrow

[Duracell]

I've just remembered we played half a Premier League season with Bob Malcolm in our squad!!!!! We paid him actual money to be here!!!

[trekkie_ram]

Newcastle and Fulham both failed to beat us, how **** must they have been!!!

I remember Howard missed a penalty to make it 2-0 against Blackburn, they scored pretty much on the counter, and we lost 1-2 :-(

That Newcastle win was the 6th game. we only managed 7pts from the final 32 games. We were shambolic!!

P38 W1 D8 L29 GF20 GA89

[Shake n Bake]

I think he signed from Preston and did naff all.

Never been to gran canaria. Been to lanzarote though quite nice there.

It's quite nice, been sunny all week then gets to home time today and there's a storm. Timed it quite well I think!

[curb]

We should have forced Billy Davies to stay so it got etched on his record forever, I can't believe the little ******* got away with it.

Claude Davis and Eddie ******* Lewis

[MuespachRam]

Five years, and this is the first thread I've come across that is actually perscribed solely to that period of our club. Shows how we've really not come to terms with it yet.

I can't believe that some fans try to dress up that season as anything other than what it was. Truth be told, 11 points flattered us. People compare it to Sunderland's season when they got 15 point, but for me, we were just in a class of our own. From Queen Victoria's 59th birthday to our present Queen's 82nd birthday, there must have been, what, 15 generations of footballers? Out of all of them, the squad listed at the top of this thread was the all time worst to play in the top flight. Lovely stuff.

That team wouldn't have stayed up in the Championship either, we were just sh1te. The thing that ruined it was actually our January transfer window in 2006, whereby we turned a decent Championship side and changed it into a mid-table one, and somehow we staggered and stuttered to 3rd(!!!!).

We were just so lucky to get through the play-offs, it was unreal. A freak own goal, a penalty that never was, and a fortunate 1-0 win at Wembley and hey presto, a team that had Jay McEveley and Mo Camara as its two left backs, with Darren Currie as its left winger and John Macken as its only cover up front was going to play in the best league in the world.

That side had some ok players. Howard was excellent that season but that was probably his peak. Lupoli was decent on his day. Jones was an absolute class act too, Mears wasn't too shabby a full back either. We still had no striker partner let alone ample cover up front, the worst left backs in the league, and don't even get me started on the right wing. If we hadn't gone up, we would have struggled in the Championship too without improving, just like many freak play-off teams who get found out the season after.

When I'm older, I'd love to write a book about our Premier League season, it really fascinates me. The whole club is still paying for it now. The main reason for the board's current financial policy, the reason for having Clough in charge, the low away support, the constant jibes we get from other fans, that's all the fallout of five season's ago.

If you think we're over it, then I think you're wrong. In a couple of decades time we'll still look back at this period as the recovery period from the Premier League season.

I hate it when people say, and lots of you do, that we were "lucky" to go up, we were not lucky to go up at all, if anything we were unlucky to HAVE to go into the play off's....we finished 3rd by miles, we were the third best team in the league, and thouroughly deserved to go up.

as for writing a book, someone has beaten you to it, I just finished "bad, worse, worst" the story of the season....it's quite funny as it goes..

[ramblur]

I see it's propaganda time again. There was plenty of surplus cash to spend in 07/08,the only problem being that it didn't arrive at the start,when it was most needed.The loan and the rights issue both came before the first tranche of tv cash landed.Because these funds were used to finance transactions that the tv money might otherwise have dealt with,then you might expect the year to end with cash swilling around,and ,lo and behold,the accounts show that there was £7.9m.It should also be reported that the overdraft was slashed from £6.1m to £894k during the year.All of this takes no account of the money that was squandered in Jan 08,which is down to the current administration on 2 counts:-

1) In August 08 they claimed 'ownership' of the Jan 08 'investment' in players,whilst attempting to rebut claims made by Gadsby.

2)Pearson later admitted that this spending was a mistake,but that the new owners had wanted to make an impact.

The financial records show that the current administration injected no cash during 07/08,so the financial position was entirely down to the LOG (apart from the Jan 08 'sabotage'). I could explain to a child that the 07/08 transactions didn't put us into debt in real terms,yet I seem to have difficulty getting through to some on here.

If you want to look at it another way,then we can start off with the oft mentioned £31m of debt on takeover-this included £15.5m of long term debt,which not only consists of the £15m PP loan,but also c£400k of preference shares,with the balance possibly being capitalised borrowing costs.Thus there was £15.5m of shorter term debt to deal with.Now we need to look at the resources they inherited,starting with the aforementioned £7.9m cash and adding the 2 chute payments of £23m,we get £30.9m.Deduct the £15.5m and you're left with £15.4m to deal with other matters (and this takes no account of the money squandered in Jan 08,or the debt reduction that took place between takeover and 30/6/08,made out of LOG generated resources).

So we're more financially stable now,eh? Well,we certainly don't end the year with £7.9m cash (what little we have is gobbled up by the so called revolving loan) and we don't have 2 chute payments to look forward to."Ah",you might say,"but we're told the debt is now £15m".For a start,it's £15.5m long term debt and then we move onto the 'revolving loan',which we're told isn't really debt.Strange that the accounts made the point of dragging this item out of deferred income/accruals and into debt,as it was considered this was a more appropriate classification.Strange that non debt should be repaid every year and attract annual interest.Then of course there's the other substantial non debt of loan capital-any future repayment of same out of club's resources would pretty well nail it down as real enough debt.

If I were able to buy the club now for £Xm,but had the option to travel back in time and buy it on 1/1/08 for the exact same £Xm,then it would be a complete and utter no brainer.I won't even bother to specify.

I also notice that you make no reference to the fact that Miller,Earnshaw and Jones were all sold for decent money.

[Albert]

I've just remembered we played half a Premier League season with Bob Malcolm in our squad!!!!! We paid him actual money to be here!!!

Bob Malcolm was such a good player that an Australian side a point from the bottom of their table released him. Here he was on debut:

WJ392

[Martyn]

The LOG sorted out the finance mess left by the Three Amigos, we were in a far worse mess when they took over.. At least GSE had two lots of parachute payments to cover the cost of the **** signed by BD.

a lot of the mess was also caused by GSE, Jewell and Clough, and the crap that they signed.

I agree!

[Martyn]

Five years, and this is the first thread I've come across that is actually perscribed solely to that period of our club. Shows how we've really not come to terms with it yet.

If you think we're over it, then I think you're wrong. In a couple of decades time we'll still look back at this period as the recovery period from the Premier League season.

Excellent post. I'd extend it to be the whole Davies/Jewell period. He continued to buy expensively and poorly after we were relegated.

I do think David Jones is overrated though.

[loweman2]

I see it's propaganda time again. There was plenty of surplus cash to spend in 07/08,the only problem being that it didn't arrive at the start,when it was most needed.The loan and the rights issue both came before the first tranche of tv cash landed.Because these funds were used to finance transactions that the tv money might otherwise have dealt with,then you might expect the year to end with cash swilling around,and ,lo and behold,the accounts show that there was £7.9m.It should also be reported that the overdraft was slashed from £6.1m to £894k during the year.All of this takes no account of the money that was squandered in Jan 08,which is down to the current administration on 2 counts:-

1) In August 08 they claimed 'ownership' of the Jan 08 'investment' in players,whilst attempting to rebut claims made by Gadsby.

2)Pearson later admitted that this spending was a mistake,but that the new owners had wanted to make an impact.

The financial records show that the current administration injected no cash during 07/08,so the financial position was entirely down to the LOG (apart from the Jan 08 'sabotage'). I could explain to a child that the 07/08 transactions didn't put us into debt in real terms,yet I seem to have difficulty getting through to some on here.

If you want to look at it another way,then we can start off with the oft mentioned £31m of debt on takeover-this included £15.5m of long term debt,which not only consists of the £15m PP loan,but also c£400k of preference shares,with the balance possibly being capitalised borrowing costs.Thus there was £15.5m of shorter term debt to deal with.Now we need to look at the resources they inherited,starting with the aforementioned £7.9m cash and adding the 2 chute payments of £23m,we get £30.9m.Deduct the £15.5m and you're left with £15.4m to deal with other matters (and this takes no account of the money squandered in Jan 08,or the debt reduction that took place between takeover and 30/6/08,made out of LOG generated resources).

So we're more financially stable now,eh? Well,we certainly don't end the year with £7.9m cash (what little we have is gobbled up by the so called revolving loan) and we don't have 2 chute payments to look forward to."Ah",you might say,"but we're told the debt is now £15m".For a start,it's £15.5m long term debt and then we move onto the 'revolving loan',which we're told isn't really debt.Strange that the accounts made the point of dragging this item out of deferred income/accruals and into debt,as it was considered this was a more appropriate classification.Strange that non debt should be repaid every year and attract annual interest.Then of course there's the other substantial non debt of loan capital-any future repayment of same out of club's resources would pretty well nail it down as real enough debt.

If I were able to buy the club now for £Xm,but had the option to travel back in time and buy it on 1/1/08 for the exact same £Xm,then it would be a complete and utter no brainer.I won't even bother to specify.

I also notice that you make no reference to the fact that Miller,Earnshaw and Jones were all sold for decent money.

so in a nutshell then ramblur are you saying that everything was fine and if it had of been left well alone we would now be in a much stronger position than we currently are both on and off the pitch, its ok quoting the accounts but in my opinion we were on a downward spiral much akin to Leeds, Portsmouth Cardiff etc etc. its unclear as you didn't bother to specify but are you saying that you would have bought the club in 2008 and continued to let it be managed the way that it was (on and off the field) really ?? if that was your money and you just sat back and watched ? you think you would be sitting there now looking at your spread sheet showing the massive gains that you had made, keep spending money that you haven't got gets you nowhere, the next footballing disaster waiting to happen is at loftus road, do you really think all of the money they are chucking around belongs to tony fernades ? when he realises that he has not got a clue about running a football team and he decides that he has had enough of playing silly buggers he will be off with much of his savings in tact, who will be left with the massive debt ? the club of course and they will then start the long long process of trying to pay off the debt, modern football is in crisis and the teams outside of the top ten in the premiership need to realise it, If Derby had not changed direction when it did we would have a lot more to be complaining about right now other than how inconsistent theo is, or least I would !!

[G STAR RAM]

I see it's propaganda time again. There was plenty of surplus cash to spend in 07/08,the only problem being that it didn't arrive at the start,when it was most needed.The loan and the rights issue both came before the first tranche of tv cash landed.Because these funds were used to finance transactions that the tv money might otherwise have dealt with,then you might expect the year to end with cash swilling around,and ,lo and behold,the accounts show that there was £7.9m.It should also be reported that the overdraft was slashed from £6.1m to £894k during the year.All of this takes no account of the money that was squandered in Jan 08,which is down to the current administration on 2 counts:-

1) In August 08 they claimed 'ownership' of the Jan 08 'investment' in players,whilst attempting to rebut claims made by Gadsby.

2)Pearson later admitted that this spending was a mistake,but that the new owners had wanted to make an impact.

The financial records show that the current administration injected no cash during 07/08,so the financial position was entirely down to the LOG (apart from the Jan 08 'sabotage'). I could explain to a child that the 07/08 transactions didn't put us into debt in real terms,yet I seem to have difficulty getting through to some on here.

If you want to look at it another way,then we can start off with the oft mentioned £31m of debt on takeover-this included £15.5m of long term debt,which not only consists of the £15m PP loan,but also c£400k of preference shares,with the balance possibly being capitalised borrowing costs.Thus there was £15.5m of shorter term debt to deal with.Now we need to look at the resources they inherited,starting with the aforementioned £7.9m cash and adding the 2 chute payments of £23m,we get £30.9m.Deduct the £15.5m and you're left with £15.4m to deal with other matters (and this takes no account of the money squandered in Jan 08,or the debt reduction that took place between takeover and 30/6/08,made out of LOG generated resources).

So we're more financially stable now,eh? Well,we certainly don't end the year with £7.9m cash (what little we have is gobbled up by the so called revolving loan) and we don't have 2 chute payments to look forward to."Ah",you might say,"but we're told the debt is now £15m".For a start,it's £15.5m long term debt and then we move onto the 'revolving loan',which we're told isn't really debt.Strange that the accounts made the point of dragging this item out of deferred income/accruals and into debt,as it was considered this was a more appropriate classification.Strange that non debt should be repaid every year and attract annual interest.Then of course there's the other substantial non debt of loan capital-any future repayment of same out of club's resources would pretty well nail it down as real enough debt.

If I were able to buy the club now for £Xm,but had the option to travel back in time and buy it on 1/1/08 for the exact same £Xm,then it would be a complete and utter no brainer.I won't even bother to specify.

I also notice that you make no reference to the fact that Miller,Earnshaw and Jones were all sold for decent money.

I have read through the whole thread and the only post that seems like propaganda is this one and the one by Curb.

Sometimes is it not just possible for us to reflect on the fact that we had a few really bad years on the footballing side and lay the blame at the managers who signed the players door, instead of getting into the politics of which board spent what?!

At the end of the day a lot of it is guesswork because, transfer fees aside, nobody knows what contracts were dished out to players and what sort of money these have cost us.

I say have a break from the finances until the January window and then get ripped into the current board again.

[Duracell]

I hate it when people say, and lots of you do, that we were "lucky" to go up, we were not lucky to go up at all, if anything we were unlucky to HAVE to go into the play off's....we finished 3rd by miles, we were the third best team in the league, and thouroughly deserved to go up.

as for writing a book, someone has beaten you to it, I just finished "bad, worse, worst" the story of the season....it's quite funny as it goes..

Ok, well to change it slightly and combine our two points of view, we were very "lucky" to have that team and yet have 21 teams worse than us.

We had a brilliant first half to the season and you must admit, in the second half of the season we weren't automatic promotion fodder. It was only because the rest of the league was incapable of putting a decent run together that we were still comfortably third.

And you've actualy written a book? Is it available for purchase?

[G STAR RAM]

Five years, and this is the first thread I've come across that is actually perscribed solely to that period of our club. Shows how we've really not come to terms with it yet.

I can't believe that some fans try to dress up that season as anything other than what it was. Truth be told, 11 points flattered us. People compare it to Sunderland's season when they got 15 point, but for me, we were just in a class of our own. From Queen Victoria's 59th birthday to our present Queen's 82nd birthday, there must have been, what, 15 generations of footballers? Out of all of them, the squad listed at the top of this thread was the all time worst to play in the top flight. Lovely stuff.

That team wouldn't have stayed up in the Championship either, we were just sh1te. The thing that ruined it was actually our January transfer window in 2006, whereby we turned a decent Championship side and changed it into a mid-table one, and somehow we staggered and stuttered to 3rd(!!!!).

We were just so lucky to get through the play-offs, it was unreal. A freak own goal, a penalty that never was, and a fortunate 1-0 win at Wembley and hey presto, a team that had Jay McEveley and Mo Camara as its two left backs, with Darren Currie as its left winger and John Macken as its only cover up front was going to play in the best league in the world.

That side had some ok players. Howard was excellent that season but that was probably his peak. Lupoli was decent on his day. Jones was an absolute class act too, Mears wasn't too shabby a full back either. We still had no striker partner let alone ample cover up front, the worst left backs in the league, and don't even get me started on the right wing. If we hadn't gone up, we would have struggled in the Championship too without improving, just like many freak play-off teams who get found out the season after.

When I'm older, I'd love to write a book about our Premier League season, it really fascinates me. The whole club is still paying for it now. The main reason for the board's current financial policy, the reason for having Clough in charge, the low away support, the constant jibes we get from other fans, that's all the fallout of five season's ago.

If you think we're over it, then I think you're wrong. In a couple of decades time we'll still look back at this period as the recovery period from the Premier League season.

I only missed 3 games in the Premier League season (Tottenham away, Newcastle away and the other one passes me by)

As sh1te as we were I would still say we were value for more than 11 points.

I think back to the opening day and think we should have beaten Portsmouth (I actually left the ground that day full of optimism!)

First away game Man City, Pearson missed a one on one late on that would have salvaged us a point.

Newcastle away we probably should have won.

Fulham away we would have won if not for poor finishing.

Sunderland away, Bolton away and Liverpool at home we conceded late goals when we probably deserved a point.

Portsmouth away we deserved a point.

I would state a few more home games but when reality kicked in I soon resorted to going to the matches completely plastered.

All in all it was the best of times it was the worst of times. Our support that year was phenomenal but unfortunately the team could not get close!

[Duracell]

Pro-board posters always like to cite Portsmouth as to where we could be, but I think that misses the point. I'm no board apologist but I believe that we couldn't spend our way out of getting over the worst top-flight season in history.

More relevant is clubs like Coventry, Sheffield Wednesday and Sunderland. These are clubs that are roughly the same size as us, but they've turned themselves into losing clubs for one reason or another. It doesn't matter who manages them or who plays for them, these clubs can not make a sustained challenge on anything at all and yo-yo between leagues.

I hope Clough has ensured it's not thoroughly seeped into us too, but you look at our last decade and you can't say it was much better than any of the afore mentioned clubs.

Since Sunderland's 15 point season, how many millions of pounds have changed hands as they try to improve themselves? How many genuinely good players have plied their trade at the Stadium of Light, and now, what do they have to show for it? A couple of promotions from the Championship and mid-table Premier League finishes. They now look to have a very long season ahead despite spending much more than other rivals at their end of the table with arguably one of the best man-motivators in the top flight.

For me, the financial situation is interesting but it's not actually central to the issue. I'm not saying having short arms and long pockets was the right way for the board to go, but they were absolutely right in not chucking money left right and centre trying to reverse the 2007/08 season, and they were right to install a manager who was going to change the clubs' long-term culture rather than a more high-profile manager looking for a short-term fix to have a pretty CV for when he joins a better club.

Retail therapy never works, especially not in football.

[Duracell]

I only missed 3 games in the Premier League season (Tottenham away, Newcastle away and the other one passes me by)

As sh1te as we were I would still say we were value for more than 11 points.

I think back to the opening day and think we should have beaten Portsmouth (I actually left the ground that day full of optimism!)

First away game Man City, Pearson missed a one on one late on that would have salvaged us a point.

Newcastle away we probably should have won.

Fulham away we would have won if not for poor finishing.

Sunderland away, Bolton away and Liverpool at home we conceded late goals when we probably deserved a point.

Portsmouth away we deserved a point.

I would state a few more home games but when reality kicked in I soon resorted to going to the matches completely plastered.

All in all it was the best of times it was the worst of times. Our support that year was phenomenal but unfortunately the team could not get close!

When you play 38 games and you haven't had a good season, you'd expect at least a dosen "oooh, that was unlucky" moments, but even in our season we could barely muster that.

For me, 'deserving' a point and losing 3-1 highlights as much as losing 5-0 at home to West Ham reserves just how bad we were.

When we rarely had a genuine chance our players were so poor, they never took them.

Even when Havant & Waterlooville played at Anfield, they created chances, and they took two of them.

Liverpool at home is the one game I'd give the benefit of the doubt to.

In most games, we were lucky to get nil.

[MuespachRam]

Ok, well to change it slightly and combine our two points of view, we were very "lucky" to have that team and yet have 21 teams worse than us.

We had a brilliant first half to the season and you must admit, in the second half of the season we weren't automatic promotion fodder. It was only because the rest of the league was incapable of putting a decent run together that we were still comfortably third.

And you've actualy written a book? Is it available for purchase?

sorry....when I say "i've just finished" I meant "i've just finished READING"..i haven't wrote it... altough I am in the process of one, more information on that will be on here soon and when it is, I am hoping for contributions from all the regular and irregular posters on here, so get ready...

as for being lucky or not, nope, we were not lucky, we were the third best team in the league...as our silly little red dog would say...that is a FACT!

[G STAR RAM]

When you play 38 games and you haven't had a good season, you'd expect at least a dosen "oooh, that was unlucky" moments, but even in our season we could barely muster that.

For me, 'deserving' a point and losing 3-1 highlights as much as losing 5-0 at home to West Ham reserves just how bad we were.

When we rarely had a genuine chance our players were so poor, they never took them.

Even when Havant & Waterlooville played at Anfield, they created chances, and they took two of them.

Liverpool at home is the one game I'd give the benefit of the doubt to.

In most games, we were lucky to get nil.

Most of the games I quoted we scored nil but were probably worth a point.

Newcastle away we should have won.

11 points certainly wasn't a 'hard luck story' but on the other hand I think we could have finished that season with 20 points

[G STAR RAM]

sorry....when I say "i've just finished" I meant "i've just finished READING"..i haven't wrote it... altough I am in the process of one, more information on that will be on here soon and when it is, I am hoping for contributions from all the regular and irregular posters on here, so get ready...

as for being lucky or not, nope, we were not lucky, we were the third best team in the league...as our silly little red dog would say...that is a FACT!

I agree we weren't lucky. Luck evens itself out of 46 games. We certainly stumbled across the line though.

Thought we played well in the play off semi finals but god knows how we came away from Wembley with Premiership status under our belts

[Duracell]

sorry....when I say "i've just finished" I meant "i've just finished READING"..i haven't wrote it... altough I am in the process of one, more information on that will be on here soon and when it is, I am hoping for contributions from all the regular and irregular posters on here, so get ready...

as for being lucky or not, nope, we were not lucky, we were the third best team in the league...as our silly little red dog would say...that is a FACT!

Third best, or third least worst? 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

Oh, that's dissapointing, thought you'd actually written a book! But what's this one about?

[Alph]

I don't think we were lucky to finish 3rd. I thought we were second best in the Play Off final.

I think we were wonderfully engineered and switched on to Championship football.

Everybody at this level is equal. So it's possible to find a successful formula and play it against everybody.

Billy knew and still knows the formula. He knows the whole mentality and pattern to Champioship football.

Without starting a debate about the 'quality' I think this division is about percentage football. Billy know his game here. That's how he makes poor players into good players. He knows the strengths and weaknesses of the league and he also knows how to play to them. We finished 3rd because of him. And we deserved it. We didn't have the best players. But we did have one of the best managers.

Then you get to the PL and the formula changes. Especially in the top two 'mini leagues'.

I don't know why we couldn't be effective against the bottom 'mini league'. We had poor individuals? The slight improvement in quality rendered our formula useless?

I dunno.

But this is why I agree with Bris a lot. And EKR and Cumbrian etc. I want to see a successful controlled formula that isn't so fickle.

I hate 'scrappy 1-0 wins will do' and 'winning is all that counts' because it's important to go up next time with a better formula.

That's how I see it for what it's worth