PrivateDerby Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Look, it's the same everywhere, whoever you support fans get disillusioned, here's a little story to explain what I mean. I was at the bar the other night when this lad walked in bought his pint, put his head in his hand and asked "Does anyone want my season ticket?" "I can't do it any more" I forgot where I was for a moment (thinking I was in Derby still) looked at the wallet in his hand and saw red in two different ways.... "Is that a Stoke one mate?" PrivateDerby asked. "Yeah, why? Do you want it? I dunna wan't anything for it" . "Please tell me you're joking? Why you giving it up?" The fat Stokie replied "Just fed up mate, same thing every week, same football, same excuses, I've never wanted to go to Trentham Gardens with my lady on a Saturday before, but now I do.... " This annoyed PrivateDerby immensely, so he paid £50 quid for the ticket before telling him how lucky he was to see his team come from nowhere to having the whole of the football league **** scared of them, getting to the FA Cup Final and going abroad... I then told him about the mighty rams and guess what, he asked for a refund 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> But there you go, we're Derby County and I will always love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaragozaram Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 This wasn´t supposed to be a doom and gloom thread, more an observation as to how far we have fallen behind like for like clubs. I, like all on here, have always been and will always be, Derby and only Derby (in England anyways), but the gap is widening into a chasm and I just can´t see us bridging it anytime soon. Hence the disillusionment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpleram Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I bet the Sharp loan is costing more than you might think, probably as much as the Sammon permanent fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I bet the Sharp loan is costing more than you might think, probably as much as the Sammon permanent fee. It will be worth it , if it gets them 10 to 15 extra points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Look, it's the same everywhere, whoever you support fans get disillusioned, here's a little story to explain what I mean. I was at the bar the other night when this lad walked in bought his pint, put his head in his hand and asked "Does anyone want my season ticket?" "I can't do it any more" I forgot where I was for a moment (thinking I was in Derby still) looked at the wallet in his hand and saw red in two different ways.... "Is that a Stoke one mate?" PrivateDerby asked. "Yeah, why? Do you want it? I dunna wan't anything for it" . "Please tell me you're joking? Why you giving it up?" The fat Stokie replied "Just fed up mate, same thing every week, same football, same excuses, I've never wanted to go to Trentham Gardens with my lady on a Saturday before, but now I do.... " This annoyed PrivateDerby immensely, so he paid £50 quid for the ticket before telling him how lucky he was to see his team come from nowhere to having the whole of the football league **** scared of them, getting to the FA Cup Final and going abroad... I then told him about the mighty rams and guess what, he asked for a refund 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> But there you go, we're Derby County and I will always love them. My stoke mate ( st holder in his late 30's) walked out with 15 minutes to go at the Stoke-Arsenal match last week. He was fed up of Pulis' tactics of settling for a draw - at home to Arsenal! This guy had followed Stoke for years before their promotion and is sick to death of the glory hunters and the style of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkleyram Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I don´t think I have ever been as disillusioned with football as I am tonight. What hope is there of Derby, or (insert any number of clubs) of competing at the highest level again when Premeirship clubs are throwing money around like they are. Comparable clubs, in terms or size, stature etc. Spending millions on players, signing 12-13 players in the window, We have no chance. I am not anti-board or anti-Clough, I quite like the way we are buying or promoting youth, but we are so far off the radar financially that I cannot see us ever mounting a sustained challenge in the top division again. Ooh, I see QPR have signed another player. Jeeez. Zaragoza i agree, even though I am buzzing from this afternoon's performance - the best that I have seen us play over 90 minutes for many a season - skill, tackling, good goals, passing, playing out from the back, immense individual performances, guts, effort - it had it all. I go back watching the Rams to the early 60's and have been lucky enough to watch several really good sides - Brian's team was followed up by that of Dave Mackay; Arthur Cox's side was workmanlike, successful and would have been even better had Maxwell not got into his financial problems; Jim Smith produced two wonderful footballing teams. But what depresses me is the Premier League. Like most I guess I really want our club to be in the top division. It's THE place to be if you are ambitious and want to see the best players and best games, if you want to get into Europe and see sides that you only read about. And at one level I do want us to go up - not in the way we did under Billy when the players and he and Jewell weren't able to cope - but in the way we did under Jim Smith when we not only coped but for a few seasons prospered. But then I look at what awaits. Can any side other than one supported by stupid amounts of money, really win the competition? In my view, no. Most fans could name the top 5 or 6 teams now, and would probably be right. Only the order might be slightly different. There's a group of teams then that come after that group. Everton for example. In my day, and still, a big club. A good club. Well run. Good players. Good manager. Good fans. But what chance do they have of winning or success? Probably none, barring an extraordinary set of circumstances. Or Newcastle. Or Sunderland. Or Stoke. Or Spurs? Read what the Liverpool fans are saying about their club after this transfer window (and yes, I smile to myself too) And then I ask myself, if you can't win it, ever, then what's the point? Stoke fans are moaning on 606 tonight about Tony Pulis' tactics. Tony Pulis has but one objective, to stay in the Premier League. Because if he doesn't not only will he be sacked but he will place the whole financial future of the club at risk. He's not bothered about winning a cup, or getting into Europe; he knows with certainty that he won't win the league so his whole concentration is on staying there - year after year after boring year. And the Stoke fans, having enjoyed a few seasons of success are now reacting against the tedium of ambition that is just about 'staying up'. And the same will happen to us when, and I think we will in the next couple of seasons, we go up. Which is why I love the league we are in. It is still, just about, a competition which almost anyone can win. But even that is changing because of Premier League money. Bolton, Blackburn, Wolves now have 4 years of parachute payments, not 2. In another few years the number of clubs that benefit from the Premier League largesse will increase. So the championship will devalue too as a competition - slowly and inevitably. And it is that that depresses me as well. I loathe aspects of the Premier League and its dominance by television with a passion - the unfriendly kick off times; the preponderance of foreign players over UK players; ditto the managers and owners; referees that are celebrities; the wages; linesman being referees assistants; 4th officials; sitting not standing. I could go on and on and sound more and more like a grumpy old man. But I don't mind progress or change - it's happened all my life. I can remember working in offices without computers and a time when a mobile phone was called a phone box. What depresses me is that the game that I love has been taken over by selfish interests, interested only in the well being of a relative few, and that the rest of us have sleptwalked into accepting it as the only alternative Of course there are good things - medical advances help players; pitches are better, as but two examples. But when your club gets into the top division and the only realistic ambition is to stay up, year after year after year, you have to ask yourself 'what is the point?' No longer is it a competition in the true sense of the word it is a means of filling television time around the world and generating cash, profit and attention for a relative few. Now that depresses me. But I'm still buzzing from this afternoon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozza Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 But I'm still buzzing from this afternoon! Brilliant post mate.. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedram Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Of course there are good things - medical advances help players; pitches are better, as but two examples. But when your club gets into the top division and the only realistic ambition is to stay up, year after year after year, you have to ask yourself 'what is the point?' No longer is it a competition in the true sense of the word it is a means of filling television time around the world and generating cash, profit and attention for a relative few. Now that depresses me. But I'm still buzzing from this afternoon! read an article once about the German League - seemed to be more focussed on the fans, they still have standing !, seems that its not just the wealthiest clubs that win and even if they lose some of their very best players to Real Madrid... - attendances were reported to be very strong. Theres always hope - especially after this afternoon 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Just a thought about the imbalance if money due to parachut payments. If teams go up before the payments run out then the next years get shared out. We could have the situation that £36m is shared out among 21 clubs - £1.5m each. Assuming FFP works then this is money that could not have been budgeted for in the following year as no-one knows who's going to go up do could provide extra transfer revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StockholmRam Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 So the difference between Chelsea and derby is that we have owners who are in for the love of the club, the city, the fans? I know which owner I would prefer Are you saying that actually you would prefer anyone at the club who is prepared to lump millions in regardless of whether they actually care about the club, city, history, fans etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StockholmRam Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Zaragoza i agree, even though I am buzzing from this afternoon's performance - the best that I have seen us play over 90 minutes for many a season - skill, tackling, good goals, passing, playing out from the back, immense individual performances, guts, effort - it had it all. I go back watching the Rams to the early 60's and have been lucky enough to watch several really good sides - Brian's team was followed up by that of Dave Mackay; Arthur Cox's side was workmanlike, successful and would have been even better had Maxwell not got into his financial problems; Jim Smith produced two wonderful footballing teams. But what depresses me is the Premier League. Like most I guess I really want our club to be in the top division. It's THE place to be if you are ambitious and want to see the best players and best games, if you want to get into Europe and see sides that you only read about. And at one level I do want us to go up - not in the way we did under Billy when the players and he and Jewell weren't able to cope - but in the way we did under Jim Smith when we not only coped but for a few seasons prospered. But then I look at what awaits. Can any side other than one supported by stupid amounts of money, really win the competition? In my view, no. Most fans could name the top 5 or 6 teams now, and would probably be right. Only the order might be slightly different. There's a group of teams then that come after that group. Everton for example. In my day, and still, a big club. A good club. Well run. Good players. Good manager. Good fans. But what chance do they have of winning or success? Probably none, barring an extraordinary set of circumstances. Or Newcastle. Or Sunderland. Or Stoke. Or Spurs? Read what the Liverpool fans are saying about their club after this transfer window (and yes, I smile to myself too) And then I ask myself, if you can't win it, ever, then what's the point? Stoke fans are moaning on 606 tonight about Tony Pulis' tactics. Tony Pulis has but one objective, to stay in the Premier League. Because if he doesn't not only will he be sacked but he will place the whole financial future of the club at risk. He's not bothered about winning a cup, or getting into Europe; he knows with certainty that he won't win the league so his whole concentration is on staying there - year after year after boring year. And the Stoke fans, having enjoyed a few seasons of success are now reacting against the tedium of ambition that is just about 'staying up'. And the same will happen to us when, and I think we will in the next couple of seasons, we go up. Which is why I love the league we are in. It is still, just about, a competition which almost anyone can win. But even that is changing because of Premier League money. Bolton, Blackburn, Wolves now have 4 years of parachute payments, not 2. In another few years the number of clubs that benefit from the Premier League largesse will increase. So the championship will devalue too as a competition - slowly and inevitably. And it is that that depresses me as well. I loathe aspects of the Premier League and its dominance by television with a passion - the unfriendly kick off times; the preponderance of foreign players over UK players; ditto the managers and owners; referees that are celebrities; the wages; linesman being referees assistants; 4th officials; sitting not standing. I could go on and on and sound more and more like a grumpy old man. But I don't mind progress or change - it's happened all my life. I can remember working in offices without computers and a time when a mobile phone was called a phone box. What depresses me is that the game that I love has been taken over by selfish interests, interested only in the well being of a relative few, and that the rest of us have sleptwalked into accepting it as the only alternative Of course there are good things - medical advances help players; pitches are better, as but two examples. But when your club gets into the top division and the only realistic ambition is to stay up, year after year after year, you have to ask yourself 'what is the point?' No longer is it a competition in the true sense of the word it is a means of filling television time around the world and generating cash, profit and attention for a relative few. Now that depresses me. But I'm still buzzing from this afternoon! I think this is just about the most reasoned intelligent post I have ever read on a football forum. Well said and written sir. I would like to add my tupenny bits worth too. The standard of football at the top flight level is SO exceptional in terms of individual skill, ball retention and lack of mistakes that the top teams ( bar one or two) have become boring to watch. Is it exciting to see Spain or Milan play football? Not for me. Of course I know that Iniesta etc are wonderful players...perhaps too good. The most entertaining game of Euro 2012 was England v Sweden. Both teams playing with grit and determination but with flaws to their game too. Is football still about entertainment or just getting results no matter what!!? For the record I like what Derby are trying to achieve. Someone wrote elsewhere about how sweet it would be IF we can become successful with homegrown talent, finding skillful players in lower leagues and bringing them on, introducing youngsters from our academy, having a manager with his heart in our club and our city. A dream maybe.... but some dream if we can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Are you saying that actually you would prefer anyone at the club who is prepared to lump millions in regardless of whether they actually care about the club, city, history, fans etc? No I'm asking the difference between our owners and chelseas. Do you think all our current owners/investors could name the derby players, how many times we have won the league ect.... Tell me how many times they goto matches each season, all of them? Some of them? Or count them on less than one hand? I'm not having a dig at them, but IMO roman has more of an interest in chelsea than our lot do in derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 No I'm asking the difference between our owners and chelseas. Do you think all our current owners/investors could name the derby players, how many times we have won the league ect.... Tell me how many times they goto matches each season, all of them? Some of them? Or count them on less than one hand? I'm not having a dig at them, but IMO roman has more of an interest in chelsea than our lot do in derby. Roman has schpunted nearly 800m quid buying success and firing managers. I'm not sure I'd be holidng him up as the best example of an owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Roman has schpunted nearly 800m quid buying success and firing managers. I'm not sure I'd be holidng him up as the best example of an owner. And this is bad because? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 It would be a dream to get promoted at some point soon with this Clough side. I really do admire the way we are going about things, but I do think it will not get us much further than we currently are. I feel it is a lot like being the nice guy, a lot of people trample on you, you get plenty of knocks, but you know you are going about it the right way and one day that shall be recognised and appreciated! If we got promoted I would want us to go for it, properly. None of this playing just to stay in the league, playing to progress. Jim Smith had the right idea. I think I have to accept they may be the best footballing years I shall witness for some time. But living in the past gets you nowhere. Find enjoyment in the things you can! The other problem is that I generally dislike footballers, but that is probably as much the fault of the media as the players themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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