Disillusioned

[Bris Vegas]

The thing is, football is meant to be an entertainment business.. You have good points Alpha but seriously for the neutral you'd rather watch the best players than substandard NPC players.. Even those watching their own team are starting to get bored of boring non-entertaining football against in reality a bunch of nobodys..

The price of watching games at this level is a ripoff.. An absolute ripoff.. How owners or anyone else justify the price ($25) for example to watch average players when you can pay the same amount and watch 20 games a month of better quality on the box..

People that bang on about doing it properly and so forth are IMO living in a dream world.. It's not going to happen without money. Swansea are an extreme case an this season even they've acknowledged the need to spend big to maintain their level (or improve) in the PL.. The moment you stop buying quality is the moment you plummet down the table (Aston Villa)

Derby really are going nowhere unless we have a new lease of big money or a genius manager coupled with 4 or 5 wonderkids in the academy..

[Mr Tibbs]

I don't have to do anything about it, thats not the point, the point is I don't flucking agree or like it, and I have the right to say so and also have the right to question yours, or anyone elses opinions, so do you.

I wish The Yanks and Clough and his deputies would get out of Dodge on the next Stagecoach. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Please don't ask who I would have in their place, I don't care, just so long as they,all of them are an improvement

I'd pack in with the high ground posts like above then fella if that's how you feel, let people crack on.

Satisfied that an average NPC club like us are actually pretty average. My bad.

[smiffy]

I'd pack in with the high ground posts like above then fella if that's how you feel, let people crack on.

Satisfied that an average NPC club like us are actually pretty average. My bad.

No high ground, just my ground 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

[SillyBilly]

Satisfied that an average NPC club like us are actually pretty average. My bad.

Embracing unexceptionality seems to be the norm. All ambition has long gone, typified by that response. Averageness would never need to be bettered with the guarantee of such a loyal supporter base.

[mozza]

is this the 'wrist slashers' thread ?

[zaragozaram]

is this the 'wrist slashers' thread ?

As Kate Nash once said " Intelligent input darling"

[uttoxram75]

We don't have owners prepared to pay huge wages for players. So, as fans, what do we do?

Carry on supporting the club that we have grown up loving?

Riot and drive the current owners out?

Stop going until we are successfull again?

Give the manager a season with his team to see what he can do?

Panic cause the ********* up the road think they are going to win every game 5-0?

Bollux. We are Derby.

We are better than this.

I can understand younger fans being pissed off, those who have grown up with Sky. But the older ones need to look at our history.

Did you stop going when we were in Division 3 in the 80's? A lot of you did! Some of us didn't. Some of us kept the club going through those dark days.

We are on the cusp of history here. Either Nigel's team will gel and have a good season or we'll struggle and the fans will turn against him leading to a change of manager and a revolution against the owners.

But don't turn against your club just because forest are richer than us at the moment.

We've always been more loyal than the mardarse reddogs, there's nowt they can do about that, its the reason they really despise us, its called jealousy.

Give Nige and his team a chance, give 'em a chance til the New Year and see where we are then.

It'll taste a whole lot sweeter if we are doing better than our billionaire neighbours from Leicester and Nottingham.

[mcsilks]

The thing is, football is meant to be an entertainment business.. You have good points Alpha but seriously for the neutral you'd rather watch the best players than substandard NPC players.. Even those watching their own team are starting to get bored of boring non-entertaining football against in reality a bunch of nobodys..

The price of watching games at this level is a ripoff.. An absolute ripoff.. How owners or anyone else justify the price ($25) for example to watch average players when you can pay the same amount and watch 20 games a month of better quality on the box..

People that bang on about doing it properly and so forth are IMO living in a dream world.. It's not going to happen without money. Swansea are an extreme case an this season even they've acknowledged the need to spend big to maintain their level (or improve) in the PL.. The moment you stop buying quality is the moment you plummet down the table (Aston Villa)

Derby really are going nowhere unless we have a new lease of big money or a genius manager coupled with 4 or 5 wonderkids in the academy..

Football can only implode. How long can wealthy business people be willing to lose money on expensive toys?

I follow the Rams but I'm becoming bored with football. We are an average side with no realistic chance of getting promoted. The only way at the moment is downwards. We cannot attract good players to the club and watching from afar, it makes me laugh when the Rams fans get excited over players like Connor Sammon.

We have a ramshackle squad put together for peanuts and still fans expect Clough to get results. We don't have a single player that is capable of competing at a higher level.

Of course owners can justify charging $30~$50 a game. How else could the players wages be paid. The top clubs have waiting lists for season tickets so I guess that rather throws the argument into the rubbish.

[uttoxram75]

Football can only implode. How long can wealthy business people be willing to lose money on expensive toys?

I follow the Rams but I'm becoming bored with football. We are an average side with no realistic chance of getting promoted. The only way at the moment is downwards. We cannot attract good players to the club and watching from afar, it makes me laugh when the Rams fans get excited over players like Connor Sammon.

We have a ramshackle squad put together for peanuts and still fans expect Clough to get results. We don't have a single player that is capable of competing at a higher level.

Of course owners can justify charging $30~$50 a game. How else could the players wages be paid. The top clubs have waiting lists for season tickets so I guess that rather throws the argument into the rubbish.

What makes you believe rams fans are excited over signing Connor Sammon? I certainly don't know any who are.

The vast majority of fans who I travel to the game with and drink with are very cynical about our future. They think Connor is a good signing and someone we need but they are not creaming themselves over him.

Fans are realistic mcsilks, we anna got owners who are prepared to throw millions at the club so we have to cling to the hope that Nige can build a squad to compete. From what we've seen so far this season we have a chance.

[mcsilks]

What makes you believe rams fans are excited over signing Connor Sammon? I certainly don't know any who are.

The vast majority of fans who I travel to the game with and drink with are very cynical about our future. They think Connor is a good signing and someone we need but they are not creaming themselves over him.

Fans are realistic mcsilks, we anna got owners who are prepared to throw millions at the club so we have to cling to the hope that Nige can build a squad to compete. From what we've seen so far this season we have a chance.

And I agree. We have a squad that can compete. Clough has done wonders to make that so.

Our biggest problem might just be our fans. They have big expectations and rightly so. We are a well supported club and because of that, we feel we should have a team that can compete with other clubs that have a similar fan base.

Maybe the pressure to perform might be our undoing. It's no coincidence that the clubs that have done well in recent years can play with a freedom as their fans have low expectations. Swansea, Norwich, Stoke, Wigan, Fulham, Reading, West Brom and the like are all established top flight clubs who some might say are punching well above their weight.

For reasons I cannot explain, playing for DCFC seems to bring the worst out in players.

[Bris Vegas]

Football can only implode. How long can wealthy business people be willing to lose money on expensive toys?

I follow the Rams but I'm becoming bored with football. We are an average side with no realistic chance of getting promoted. The only way at the moment is downwards. We cannot attract good players to the club and watching from afar, it makes me laugh when the Rams fans get excited over players like Connor Sammon.

We have a ramshackle squad put together for peanuts and still fans expect Clough to get results. We don't have a single player that is capable of competing at a higher level.

Of course owners can justify charging $30~$50 a game. How else could the players wages be paid. The top clubs have waiting lists for season tickets so I guess that rather throws the argument into the rubbish.

Top clubs can justify that amount of course they can.. But I was referring to the likes of midtable NPC clubs that have little chance of getting promoted and whose star players that fans get excited over are PL dropouts..

Can you remember a few years ago Mc when QPR tried charging us $40 a ticket.. Seriously, $40 to watch 2 **** teams lumping it up and down the field with not a single player who could do something to get you off the edge of your seat.. $40 is like 2 months Sky coverage where you can see the likes of Ronaldo, Messi, Iniesta, David Silva, Rooney etc.. about 10 times each..

$40 to sit in Old Trafford to watch worldclass players, good football and general entertainment of course it's justified.. $40 to watch 2 lump it NPC clubs battling it out with squads put together on peanuts.. Forget that.

[uttoxram75]

I can live without watching a game on Sky. I'd miss watching a live match at a ground though.

[Duracell]

The English football bubble is about to burst, IMO. The reason why clubs can afford these deals and their debt is because banks lend to them. Why? Because it's a good deed from the bank. No one wants to see their club go under and if a bank is asking for its money back, it's never going to endear itself to its fans.

Until now. Now, it is actually bad PR to be seen lending to these clubs in our time of austerity.

The reason why clubs are spending money like its going out of fashion is because it is! Get rid of the stuff while you have it.

FFP could leave us sitting pretty. But that depends largely on advertising revenue. When all our decent players start to leave this country, that will begin to fall...

[SantosHalper]

The English football bubble is about to burst, IMO. The reason why clubs can afford these deals and their debt is because banks lend to them. Why? Because it's a good deed from the bank. No one wants to see their club go under and if a bank is asking for its money back, it's never going to endear itself to its fans.

Until now. Now, it is actually bad PR to be seen lending to these clubs in our time of austerity.

The reason why clubs are spending money like its going out of fashion is because it is! Get rid of the stuff while you have it.

FFP could leave us sitting pretty. But that depends largely on advertising revenue. When all our decent players start to leave this country, that will begin to fall...

Well, as to your first point, regarding the bursting of the bubble -- I certainly hope so. I've been hoping that English football will be forced to press the reset button for years now. Problem is, it doesn't look like happening. I'd love to see the the whole system completely self-implode and collapse under its own weight. But this might happen in a decade or so.

As for the banks... perhaps you're more in the know than I am, but can you give me an example of a bank getting bad PR from lending money to a football club? I think the bad PR is reserved almost exclusively for the clubs themselves, or at least those that massively over-spend.

I'm completely ambivalent about the new FFP rules. On the one hand, it prevents clubs from over-spending and over-reaching themsleves, but, on the other hand, it simply reinforces the status quo. To put it another way, clubs that are already dominant and rich can never be touched. For example, if Notts Florist ever want to get into the Champions League, FFP rules are going to prevent that, because they will always have to spend a lot more money than they bring in. But clubs that are already established in European competition can spend much more, without flouting FFP rules, simply because they have massive existing revenue steams. So Barca or Real Madrid will always be able to spunk £100m on a couple of players because they know that that money will be offset by shirt sales, season tickets, TV money, prize money, etc.

The rest of us don't stand a chance. Football is a cartel. Twas ever thus.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

And so we end up debating as usual how much our owners are prepared to gift the club. Like most I detest the way Sky money has corrupted football for the casual fan into a one division spectacle. I destest how it has attracted the likes of Abramovich with thier bottomless pits of money.

Where does all this end? Ultimately if I was the richest man in the world I could buy at any price all the best players all the time pay them mega buks even to sit on the bench or never even play. I could then sit back and watch my team win everything all the time................... but what then? Kind of defeats the point in my opinion.

I support and watch Derby because I always have. Just like when my lads were growing up I watched all their school matches and the like. My lads were not overly good but I supported them and got into it with enthusiasm. I kicked every ball and went into every challenge with them. I do the same for DCFC on match day. That is my enjoyment! Kicking every ball with my team because, well................they are my team........... and that to me is the whole point.

[AndyB]

I don't recommend the board "gift" the club money because I know they won't. They didn't know anything about us 5 years ago and will probably have forgotten us in another 5 years. They don't care about Derby beyond how much money they can make - it's an investment.

The best way to make money out of an English football club is to get it into the Premier League.

Where I think their strategy is wrong is that they won't "invest" money. Clough has proven he can buy good players with a sell on value. If Clough spends and it doesn't work then the money can be re-couped. We buy (and develop) young hungry players with potential but the purse springs are too tight to put a promotion push together. A bit of investment would change this.

[Day]

I'm disillusioned I admit it, it's been bubbling under the surface for a while and I'll also admit the Billy Sharp thing tipped me over the edge last night.

I've been with me missus going on 6 years now so the only excitement I get is from football, problem is I'm struggling to remember the last time I've actually been excited by a Derby player, actually that was Kris Commons and I still wear his shirt to bed, I'm not embarrassed either to say that a fat lad from Sheffield would of given me an erection.

I'll get over it I have no choice, it's just hard to accept at times our ambition is to finish 12th with the lowest wage bill in the league.

Would 1 season of Billy Sharp's wages really have turned us into another Portsmouth or Rangers? just one season push the boat out for that one player that could really make a difference to us and a genuine hope of a place in the play offs.

Of course it may not even be GSE being tight arses, it's alright claiming he would be on massive wages, a massive loan fee etc. maybe Nigel would of backed out as he didn't think he was worth it (Hooper style). Fair play it's his job not mine

A 4-0 win today with a Connor Sammon hat trick followed by a B4 promotion thread and a winning bet will sort me out. If not I'll be considering throwing myself off the Grimsby Dock wall.

[AndyB]

I'll get over it I have no choice, it's just hard to accept at times our ambition is to finish 12th with the lowest wage bill in the league.

Would 1 season of Billy Sharp's wages really have turned us into another Portsmouth or Rangers? just one season push the boat out for that one player that could really make a difference to us and a genuine hope of a place in the play offs.

Well said Daveo, totally agree

[Guest]

And so we end up debating as usual how much our owners are prepared to gift the club. Like most I detest the way Sky money has corrupted football for the casual fan into a one division spectacle. I destest how it has attracted the likes of Abramovich with thier bottomless pits of money.

Where does all this end? Ultimately if I was the richest man in the world I could buy at any price all the best players all the time pay them mega buks even to sit on the bench or never even play. I could then sit back and watch my team win everything all the time................... but what then? Kind of defeats the point in my opinion.

I support and watch Derby because I always have. Just like when my lads were growing up I watched all their school matches and the like. My lads were not overly good but I supported them and got into it with enthusiasm. I kicked every ball and went into every challenge with them. I do the same for DCFC on match day. That is my enjoyment! Kicking every ball with my team because, well................they are my team........... and that to me is the whole point.

So the difference between Chelsea and derby is that we have owners who are in for the love of the club, the city, the fans?

I know which owner I would prefer

[Jayram]

It seems like we've accepted that this is as good as it gets, and it probably is with the continuing lack of proper investment. What gets me is that the board will cite FFP but while they do, clubs that shouldn't be anywhere near us in terms of support and potential (Reading, Swansea) are streaking ahead of us and will remain there in the future. The parachute payments these clubs will come back down with will ultimately create a second Premier League in the NPC, and the worst case scenario is that eventually we will be stuck with the Barnsley's and Peterborough's of the world endlessly scrabbling in the lower reaches to try and achieve something against clubs with massive financial firepower.

You only have to look at how far the likes of Norwich and Southampton have come in the last few years, from League One to the Prem with every chance of establishing themselves there, to realise how badly we have missed the boat. Not every club who spends serious money ends up like Portsmouth or Rangers. With a bit of ambition and foresight we could have become a Stoke or a Fulham, but its unlikely to happen now.

I don't like the Premier League and its massive lack of a level playing field, buts its all there is to aim for. If pottering around in the Championship or lower is all we are satisfied with what is the point in bothering?

I will always follow the Rams as I have done for 30+ years but I can't deny that a fair bit of the shine has gone from football for me.