The Baron

Nothing has been finalised but the administrators will take legal advice as to the likelihood of success in the appeal. The cost of appeal is £300-400k and additional income in the Championship is £8-10m. 
 
Buyers want certainty as much as possible in terms of two things: (a) the assets being acquired and (b) cash flows from operations. The less certainty the lower the price they would be willing to pay, as you said yourself. 
 
My understanding was that the decision to defer the appeal was to try to get a ‘global settlement’ on the points deductions and that negotiations were continuing. Doesn’t help those worrying about their employment prospects at the club or the fans though. 

Don't know what Mr Maguire  thinks , but my take on is that both sides are leaking to their preferred outlets in the media. Percy seeems to be getting stuff from the EFL. Nixon more from Derby. If both agree we can assume there is some settlement in the offing. 

Nothing has been finalised but the administrators will take legal advice as to the likelihood of success in the appeal. The cost of appeal is £300-400k and additional income in the Championship is £8-10m. 
 
Buyers want certainty as much as possible in terms of two things: (a) the assets being acquired and (b) cash flows from operations. The less certainty the lower the price they would be willing to pay, as you said yourself. 
 
My understanding was that the decision to defer the appeal was to try to get a ‘global settlement’ on the points deductions and that negotiations were continuing. Doesn’t help those worrying about their employment prospects at the club or the fans though. 

1: Only if there has been a P&S breach
2: Spirit of FFP is irrelevant (see Everton and naming rights). Only thing that matters is if rules have been breached.
3: Tariff for breach was set out in the Birmingham case, with a sliding scale linked to the extent to which P&S limit is exceeded.
4: Tricky one.
5: They have addressed some problems but caused others.
6: I’m in favour as self regulation has not been an overwhelming success, but it won’t be a silver bullet, just look at regulators such as OFCOM and the water industry. Effectiveness will depend on the powers of the regulator and whether they want to be unpopular with club owners or not.
 

I have been critical of the EFL, such as the failure in respect of Bury, the approach taken to the destruction of Macclesfield, the appointment of a person onto the board who has just come off a 7 year ban as a director of any company in the UK, the failure to use a proper recruitment policy in relation to the Chief Exec. 
 
As for Rick Parry, I've never worked with him, he loathes me. 

I don't think that, I was putting forward the case that the EFL will use to press ahead with the penalty. They will also point out that there are 71 other clubs in the EFL who have been impacted by Covid who are not in administration. It's not a case of taking sides, more to do with presenting the cases on both sides of the divide. 
I specifically said that if a club was in a precarious financial position then Covid would make things worse. 

A fair hearing is right for both parties and also the integrity of the game.
 
The automatic points deduction was introduced by the EFL specifically because clubs were abusing administration as a means of gambling trying to get promoted and then stiffing their creditors if things did not work out. In that sense the penalty has worked given the reduction in the number of clubs going into admin since its introduction. 

I agree that a points penalty for wilful administration as an easy way out is right. And DCFC would argue that they were forced into this position through circumstances - not their own doing. There must be scenarios where this is a reasonable argument, otherwise why bother having an appeals process. We’re still suffering hardship through the administration itself, but the points penalty is a separate judgement on the motives behind being in that position. 
 
Fingers crossed it gets heard and finalised soon. 

Thanks for answering. If the EFL do cite Ebola as a reasonable precedent it will make them look foolish, in my opinion. 
 
The question about why the other 70 clubs didn’t go into administration is more complex, and I’d hope Derby’s administrators can put forward a reasonable case that, even though our finances weren’t great, it wasn’t reckless to have large loans with a reasonable expectation of income to service the outgoings - until the force majeure event happened. 
 
I think it’s a reasonable argument, but can see it going either way. Would just like a fair hearing without the likes of Gibson, The Daily Mail etc misreporting elements and/or trying to influence. 

We honestly are not obsessed with Derby and have said on many occasions (a) We hope to have no need to discuss the club again and (b) not keen with behaviour of owners results in punishment for fans via points deductions.
 
The reason why the club has appeared on the show is a combination of EFL Charges, Keough sacking claim, refusal to publish accounts, amortisation, failure to pay wages on time, FFP, collapsed sale deals and administration.
 
If none of those had arisen then the club would not have had a mention. 
As for laughing at our own jokes, I laugh at Kevin’s because I think he’s very funny. 

We honestly are not obsessed with Derby and have said on many occasions (a) We hope to have no need to discuss the club again and (b) not keen with behaviour of owners results in punishment for fans via points deductions.
 
The reason why the club has appeared on the show is a combination of EFL Charges, Keough sacking claim, refusal to publish accounts, amortisation, failure to pay wages on time, FFP, collapsed sale deals and administration.
 
If none of those had arisen then the club would not have had a mention. 
As for laughing at our own jokes, I laugh at Kevin’s because I think he’s very funny. 

The administrators will initially try to put together an inventory of assets that they can potentially sell, as well as write to all known creditors advising them that the complany(ies) is in administration, and that all current sums payable are frozen until the administration ceases. Once they know what they have to sell, they will advertise the club for sale although are likely to be inundated with idiots and tyrekickers as well as legitimate buyers. Often they will ask for a deposit for exclusive rights to inspect the books from potential new owners. 
They will ask for a statement of affairs from management, this is a summary of the most recent management accounts and identify which, if any costs can be cut. There are likely to be redundancies as a result. 
They will also ask suppliers to sign new contracts with the administrators and guarantee payment for all future purchases during the course of the admin procedure. 
The most critical issue in the short term is that of finding funding. The wages have to be paid in September, and this will be challenging as it is a seven figure sum, with relatively few assets (property assets appear to be owned by Gellaw, which is not in administration) although there will be the residue of the season ticket money received pre appointment. In addition the administrators will estimate their fees, in the case of Wigan they were over £1.6m plus a one-third uplift upon completion of a successful sale, plus legal and other costs on a few hundred thousand. 
In the case of Wigan, the most recent football administration, things were easier because the club had property assets (it had two training grounds, one of which was sold to Preston for £1.5m) as well as plenty of players to sell (this generated £10m) as the admin took place in the summer during the transfer window. Derby's administrators have a disadvantage in both of these issues. 
Once Derby is sold the new owners will have to trade under a business plan agreed with the EFL, and a combination of the liquidators of the OldCo and the new owners need to pay all of the preferred creditors and a dividend of 25% of the unsecured creditors within two years or face a further 15 point penalty. 
Again here Derby's position is more challenging than that of Wigan, where (a) the club owner wrote off the debts due to him (b) Wigan had property assets to sell to the new club owners and (c) I think that HMRC were still unsecured creditors in 2020, so were only entitled to 25% of a much lower figure than the estimated (figure given on the podcast by RamsTrust) £26m owing to the tax authorities. The football creditors figure may be higher than in the case of Wigan too, though whether there are still monies owing to Keogh and whether they are deemed to be football or unsecured creditors is uncertain. 

The administrators will initially try to put together an inventory of assets that they can potentially sell, as well as write to all known creditors advising them that the complany(ies) is in administration, and that all current sums payable are frozen until the administration ceases. Once they know what they have to sell, they will advertise the club for sale although are likely to be inundated with idiots and tyrekickers as well as legitimate buyers. Often they will ask for a deposit for exclusive rights to inspect the books from potential new owners. 
They will ask for a statement of affairs from management, this is a summary of the most recent management accounts and identify which, if any costs can be cut. There are likely to be redundancies as a result. 
They will also ask suppliers to sign new contracts with the administrators and guarantee payment for all future purchases during the course of the admin procedure. 
The most critical issue in the short term is that of finding funding. The wages have to be paid in September, and this will be challenging as it is a seven figure sum, with relatively few assets (property assets appear to be owned by Gellaw, which is not in administration) although there will be the residue of the season ticket money received pre appointment. In addition the administrators will estimate their fees, in the case of Wigan they were over £1.6m plus a one-third uplift upon completion of a successful sale, plus legal and other costs on a few hundred thousand. 
In the case of Wigan, the most recent football administration, things were easier because the club had property assets (it had two training grounds, one of which was sold to Preston for £1.5m) as well as plenty of players to sell (this generated £10m) as the admin took place in the summer during the transfer window. Derby's administrators have a disadvantage in both of these issues. 
Once Derby is sold the new owners will have to trade under a business plan agreed with the EFL, and a combination of the liquidators of the OldCo and the new owners need to pay all of the preferred creditors and a dividend of 25% of the unsecured creditors within two years or face a further 15 point penalty. 
Again here Derby's position is more challenging than that of Wigan, where (a) the club owner wrote off the debts due to him (b) Wigan had property assets to sell to the new club owners and (c) I think that HMRC were still unsecured creditors in 2020, so were only entitled to 25% of a much lower figure than the estimated (figure given on the podcast by RamsTrust) £26m owing to the tax authorities. The football creditors figure may be higher than in the case of Wigan too, though whether there are still monies owing to Keogh and whether they are deemed to be football or unsecured creditors is uncertain. 

The administrators will initially try to put together an inventory of assets that they can potentially sell, as well as write to all known creditors advising them that the complany(ies) is in administration, and that all current sums payable are frozen until the administration ceases. Once they know what they have to sell, they will advertise the club for sale although are likely to be inundated with idiots and tyrekickers as well as legitimate buyers. Often they will ask for a deposit for exclusive rights to inspect the books from potential new owners. 
They will ask for a statement of affairs from management, this is a summary of the most recent management accounts and identify which, if any costs can be cut. There are likely to be redundancies as a result. 
They will also ask suppliers to sign new contracts with the administrators and guarantee payment for all future purchases during the course of the admin procedure. 
The most critical issue in the short term is that of finding funding. The wages have to be paid in September, and this will be challenging as it is a seven figure sum, with relatively few assets (property assets appear to be owned by Gellaw, which is not in administration) although there will be the residue of the season ticket money received pre appointment. In addition the administrators will estimate their fees, in the case of Wigan they were over £1.6m plus a one-third uplift upon completion of a successful sale, plus legal and other costs on a few hundred thousand. 
In the case of Wigan, the most recent football administration, things were easier because the club had property assets (it had two training grounds, one of which was sold to Preston for £1.5m) as well as plenty of players to sell (this generated £10m) as the admin took place in the summer during the transfer window. Derby's administrators have a disadvantage in both of these issues. 
Once Derby is sold the new owners will have to trade under a business plan agreed with the EFL, and a combination of the liquidators of the OldCo and the new owners need to pay all of the preferred creditors and a dividend of 25% of the unsecured creditors within two years or face a further 15 point penalty. 
Again here Derby's position is more challenging than that of Wigan, where (a) the club owner wrote off the debts due to him (b) Wigan had property assets to sell to the new club owners and (c) I think that HMRC were still unsecured creditors in 2020, so were only entitled to 25% of a much lower figure than the estimated (figure given on the podcast by RamsTrust) £26m owing to the tax authorities. The football creditors figure may be higher than in the case of Wigan too, though whether there are still monies owing to Keogh and whether they are deemed to be football or unsecured creditors is uncertain. 

The administrators will initially try to put together an inventory of assets that they can potentially sell, as well as write to all known creditors advising them that the complany(ies) is in administration, and that all current sums payable are frozen until the administration ceases. Once they know what they have to sell, they will advertise the club for sale although are likely to be inundated with idiots and tyrekickers as well as legitimate buyers. Often they will ask for a deposit for exclusive rights to inspect the books from potential new owners. 
They will ask for a statement of affairs from management, this is a summary of the most recent management accounts and identify which, if any costs can be cut. There are likely to be redundancies as a result. 
They will also ask suppliers to sign new contracts with the administrators and guarantee payment for all future purchases during the course of the admin procedure. 
The most critical issue in the short term is that of finding funding. The wages have to be paid in September, and this will be challenging as it is a seven figure sum, with relatively few assets (property assets appear to be owned by Gellaw, which is not in administration) although there will be the residue of the season ticket money received pre appointment. In addition the administrators will estimate their fees, in the case of Wigan they were over £1.6m plus a one-third uplift upon completion of a successful sale, plus legal and other costs on a few hundred thousand. 
In the case of Wigan, the most recent football administration, things were easier because the club had property assets (it had two training grounds, one of which was sold to Preston for £1.5m) as well as plenty of players to sell (this generated £10m) as the admin took place in the summer during the transfer window. Derby's administrators have a disadvantage in both of these issues. 
Once Derby is sold the new owners will have to trade under a business plan agreed with the EFL, and a combination of the liquidators of the OldCo and the new owners need to pay all of the preferred creditors and a dividend of 25% of the unsecured creditors within two years or face a further 15 point penalty. 
Again here Derby's position is more challenging than that of Wigan, where (a) the club owner wrote off the debts due to him (b) Wigan had property assets to sell to the new club owners and (c) I think that HMRC were still unsecured creditors in 2020, so were only entitled to 25% of a much lower figure than the estimated (figure given on the podcast by RamsTrust) £26m owing to the tax authorities. The football creditors figure may be higher than in the case of Wigan too, though whether there are still monies owing to Keogh and whether they are deemed to be football or unsecured creditors is uncertain. 

We honestly are not obsessed with Derby and have said on many occasions (a) We hope to have no need to discuss the club again and (b) not keen with behaviour of owners results in punishment for fans via points deductions.
 
The reason why the club has appeared on the show is a combination of EFL Charges, Keough sacking claim, refusal to publish accounts, amortisation, failure to pay wages on time, FFP, collapsed sale deals and administration.
 
If none of those had arisen then the club would not have had a mention. 
As for laughing at our own jokes, I laugh at Kevin’s because I think he’s very funny. 

No, the purpose of administration is to protect the company from the threat of liquidation, however, if the administrators cannot arrange funding then there could be a problem as they would have to stop trading. Either the administrators will take the view they have enough cash/assets to pay costs during the administration, or another party could provide some funding. 

The administrators will initially try to put together an inventory of assets that they can potentially sell, as well as write to all known creditors advising them that the complany(ies) is in administration, and that all current sums payable are frozen until the administration ceases. Once they know what they have to sell, they will advertise the club for sale although are likely to be inundated with idiots and tyrekickers as well as legitimate buyers. Often they will ask for a deposit for exclusive rights to inspect the books from potential new owners. 
They will ask for a statement of affairs from management, this is a summary of the most recent management accounts and identify which, if any costs can be cut. There are likely to be redundancies as a result. 
They will also ask suppliers to sign new contracts with the administrators and guarantee payment for all future purchases during the course of the admin procedure. 
The most critical issue in the short term is that of finding funding. The wages have to be paid in September, and this will be challenging as it is a seven figure sum, with relatively few assets (property assets appear to be owned by Gellaw, which is not in administration) although there will be the residue of the season ticket money received pre appointment. In addition the administrators will estimate their fees, in the case of Wigan they were over £1.6m plus a one-third uplift upon completion of a successful sale, plus legal and other costs on a few hundred thousand. 
In the case of Wigan, the most recent football administration, things were easier because the club had property assets (it had two training grounds, one of which was sold to Preston for £1.5m) as well as plenty of players to sell (this generated £10m) as the admin took place in the summer during the transfer window. Derby's administrators have a disadvantage in both of these issues. 
Once Derby is sold the new owners will have to trade under a business plan agreed with the EFL, and a combination of the liquidators of the OldCo and the new owners need to pay all of the preferred creditors and a dividend of 25% of the unsecured creditors within two years or face a further 15 point penalty. 
Again here Derby's position is more challenging than that of Wigan, where (a) the club owner wrote off the debts due to him (b) Wigan had property assets to sell to the new club owners and (c) I think that HMRC were still unsecured creditors in 2020, so were only entitled to 25% of a much lower figure than the estimated (figure given on the podcast by RamsTrust) £26m owing to the tax authorities. The football creditors figure may be higher than in the case of Wigan too, though whether there are still monies owing to Keogh and whether they are deemed to be football or unsecured creditors is uncertain. 

No, the purpose of administration is to protect the company from the threat of liquidation, however, if the administrators cannot arrange funding then there could be a problem as they would have to stop trading. Either the administrators will take the view they have enough cash/assets to pay costs during the administration, or another party could provide some funding. 

The administrators will initially try to put together an inventory of assets that they can potentially sell, as well as write to all known creditors advising them that the complany(ies) is in administration, and that all current sums payable are frozen until the administration ceases. Once they know what they have to sell, they will advertise the club for sale although are likely to be inundated with idiots and tyrekickers as well as legitimate buyers. Often they will ask for a deposit for exclusive rights to inspect the books from potential new owners. 
They will ask for a statement of affairs from management, this is a summary of the most recent management accounts and identify which, if any costs can be cut. There are likely to be redundancies as a result. 
They will also ask suppliers to sign new contracts with the administrators and guarantee payment for all future purchases during the course of the admin procedure. 
The most critical issue in the short term is that of finding funding. The wages have to be paid in September, and this will be challenging as it is a seven figure sum, with relatively few assets (property assets appear to be owned by Gellaw, which is not in administration) although there will be the residue of the season ticket money received pre appointment. In addition the administrators will estimate their fees, in the case of Wigan they were over £1.6m plus a one-third uplift upon completion of a successful sale, plus legal and other costs on a few hundred thousand. 
In the case of Wigan, the most recent football administration, things were easier because the club had property assets (it had two training grounds, one of which was sold to Preston for £1.5m) as well as plenty of players to sell (this generated £10m) as the admin took place in the summer during the transfer window. Derby's administrators have a disadvantage in both of these issues. 
Once Derby is sold the new owners will have to trade under a business plan agreed with the EFL, and a combination of the liquidators of the OldCo and the new owners need to pay all of the preferred creditors and a dividend of 25% of the unsecured creditors within two years or face a further 15 point penalty. 
Again here Derby's position is more challenging than that of Wigan, where (a) the club owner wrote off the debts due to him (b) Wigan had property assets to sell to the new club owners and (c) I think that HMRC were still unsecured creditors in 2020, so were only entitled to 25% of a much lower figure than the estimated (figure given on the podcast by RamsTrust) £26m owing to the tax authorities. The football creditors figure may be higher than in the case of Wigan too, though whether there are still monies owing to Keogh and whether they are deemed to be football or unsecured creditors is uncertain. 

The administrators will initially try to put together an inventory of assets that they can potentially sell, as well as write to all known creditors advising them that the complany(ies) is in administration, and that all current sums payable are frozen until the administration ceases. Once they know what they have to sell, they will advertise the club for sale although are likely to be inundated with idiots and tyrekickers as well as legitimate buyers. Often they will ask for a deposit for exclusive rights to inspect the books from potential new owners. 
They will ask for a statement of affairs from management, this is a summary of the most recent management accounts and identify which, if any costs can be cut. There are likely to be redundancies as a result. 
They will also ask suppliers to sign new contracts with the administrators and guarantee payment for all future purchases during the course of the admin procedure. 
The most critical issue in the short term is that of finding funding. The wages have to be paid in September, and this will be challenging as it is a seven figure sum, with relatively few assets (property assets appear to be owned by Gellaw, which is not in administration) although there will be the residue of the season ticket money received pre appointment. In addition the administrators will estimate their fees, in the case of Wigan they were over £1.6m plus a one-third uplift upon completion of a successful sale, plus legal and other costs on a few hundred thousand. 
In the case of Wigan, the most recent football administration, things were easier because the club had property assets (it had two training grounds, one of which was sold to Preston for £1.5m) as well as plenty of players to sell (this generated £10m) as the admin took place in the summer during the transfer window. Derby's administrators have a disadvantage in both of these issues. 
Once Derby is sold the new owners will have to trade under a business plan agreed with the EFL, and a combination of the liquidators of the OldCo and the new owners need to pay all of the preferred creditors and a dividend of 25% of the unsecured creditors within two years or face a further 15 point penalty. 
Again here Derby's position is more challenging than that of Wigan, where (a) the club owner wrote off the debts due to him (b) Wigan had property assets to sell to the new club owners and (c) I think that HMRC were still unsecured creditors in 2020, so were only entitled to 25% of a much lower figure than the estimated (figure given on the podcast by RamsTrust) £26m owing to the tax authorities. The football creditors figure may be higher than in the case of Wigan too, though whether there are still monies owing to Keogh and whether they are deemed to be football or unsecured creditors is uncertain. 

The administrators will initially try to put together an inventory of assets that they can potentially sell, as well as write to all known creditors advising them that the complany(ies) is in administration, and that all current sums payable are frozen until the administration ceases. Once they know what they have to sell, they will advertise the club for sale although are likely to be inundated with idiots and tyrekickers as well as legitimate buyers. Often they will ask for a deposit for exclusive rights to inspect the books from potential new owners. 
They will ask for a statement of affairs from management, this is a summary of the most recent management accounts and identify which, if any costs can be cut. There are likely to be redundancies as a result. 
They will also ask suppliers to sign new contracts with the administrators and guarantee payment for all future purchases during the course of the admin procedure. 
The most critical issue in the short term is that of finding funding. The wages have to be paid in September, and this will be challenging as it is a seven figure sum, with relatively few assets (property assets appear to be owned by Gellaw, which is not in administration) although there will be the residue of the season ticket money received pre appointment. In addition the administrators will estimate their fees, in the case of Wigan they were over £1.6m plus a one-third uplift upon completion of a successful sale, plus legal and other costs on a few hundred thousand. 
In the case of Wigan, the most recent football administration, things were easier because the club had property assets (it had two training grounds, one of which was sold to Preston for £1.5m) as well as plenty of players to sell (this generated £10m) as the admin took place in the summer during the transfer window. Derby's administrators have a disadvantage in both of these issues. 
Once Derby is sold the new owners will have to trade under a business plan agreed with the EFL, and a combination of the liquidators of the OldCo and the new owners need to pay all of the preferred creditors and a dividend of 25% of the unsecured creditors within two years or face a further 15 point penalty. 
Again here Derby's position is more challenging than that of Wigan, where (a) the club owner wrote off the debts due to him (b) Wigan had property assets to sell to the new club owners and (c) I think that HMRC were still unsecured creditors in 2020, so were only entitled to 25% of a much lower figure than the estimated (figure given on the podcast by RamsTrust) £26m owing to the tax authorities. The football creditors figure may be higher than in the case of Wigan too, though whether there are still monies owing to Keogh and whether they are deemed to be football or unsecured creditors is uncertain. 

Hello Kieran

We honestly are not obsessed with Derby and have said on many occasions (a) We hope to have no need to discuss the club again and (b) not keen with behaviour of owners results in punishment for fans via points deductions.
 
The reason why the club has appeared on the show is a combination of EFL Charges, Keough sacking claim, refusal to publish accounts, amortisation, failure to pay wages on time, FFP, collapsed sale deals and administration.
 
If none of those had arisen then the club would not have had a mention. 
As for laughing at our own jokes, I laugh at Kevin’s because I think he’s very funny. 

I've not earned anything.