brady1993

I think it'll be a gradual change. Maybe for the last 20/30 this weekend, before we start wit it again.
To go 3 at the back, we'd have to either drop Goudmijn for balance or move him to the AM in a 3412 which doesn't really solve the lack of CMs problem.
The other part is putting Wilson or Ward in at RWB with Nyambe dropping to the bench - a change which doesn't make sense given Nyambe's form since coming back into the side.
If going 3412, it means we drop one of Mendez-Laing and Jackson and moving the other into a central position. Both have been critical for our defensive shape so far this season, with no other winger being close to their defensive output, as well as Jackson looking effective in the final third from the right.
All things considered, I expect a 433 from the start, with a shift to 343 by the end of the game

Whilst not at his best perhaps Ozoh was reliable on the ball, was getting into position to get the ball from the defence and importantly the defence could trust him with the ball. Essentially with him things could flow out of the defence through the midfield and they couldn't after that. We did create bits and pieces but we are going to do that with the creativity we have but we completely lost control of the game. His physicality was something of a miss but I do think it's much more we just lost the ability to have any sense of ball retention.
You are right in that we can't replace like for like and I do think it creates a bit of dilemma. To continue to play the way we have you need another ball player somewhere in a deep position (or at least willing to drop into a deep position) and you need a way that you can bypass Adams in possession. 
My gut feeling is that like you suggested Warne will shift to a back 3 because of the opposition, the loss of Ozoh and that we've not brought in Phillips to sit on the bench. It does create further headaches though down stream:
343
- With a 343 typically the front 3 need to play narrower than a 433 as there isn't the same support from midfield. And we've had a lot of joy from placing NML and Jackson as wide as we can. They might be better closer together or they might get crowded out. Maybe you can get clever with inverted wingbacks but it'd need thought.
- Goudmijn would be more restricted in a 2 and will likely have less freedom to roam to hurt team. Again a wing back tucking and staying disciplined could help here but you'd need someone comfortable on the ball probably.
- Adams has less freedom to go aggressively press in a 2
- Nyambe likely has to be dropped despite doing well.
352
- The issue here is pretty obvious in that you'd likely have to drop one of Jackson or NML
- Nyambe again probably gets dropped
- Osborn would likely get the nod in midfield but hasn't really showed much so far to make restructuring appealing.
 
Personally what I'd be tempted by is to shift to 4231 and bring Thompson in (if fit) instead of Osborn as Thompson seems much more comfortable at getting on the ball than Osborn has so far. Or going for something like 
           Nelson   Phillips   Cashin
Ward*   Goudmijn    Adams    Osborn
       Jackson     Yates     NML
With the idea of the wingbacks holding position in midfield a bit more. *I think Ward is better in possession in Wilson but I could be off base on this one. It'd be harsh on a few players and I admit it's experimental. 

I think there's really signs of the front three already building that connection with him. It's not always coming off but watch how they begin to move when he's on the ball, particularly Jackson. 

I think there's really signs of the front three already building that connection with him. It's not always coming off but watch how they begin to move when he's on the ball, particularly Jackson. 

I'd go a step a further and say that I think if you play like that you'll get a fraction of what he's actually good at.

I don't think so but you need to think of him like that. With another striker he has less space to drift around in the middle and less options in midfield to play off and interchange with him. He looks like he thrives with player running past him as opposed to somebody already ahead of him. When he moves now it opens up space for another player to burst into and to exploit, it's why the attacking looks so fluid at time. That would in perhaps a counterintuitive way be blunted if there was another striker.

I mean that's part of the product with how we play at times. First half he was actively seeking the ball dropping into space, getting on the ball and frankly looked the best player on the pitch. But we tried to play through the middle. The disruption to the midfield and how we shifted to bypassing the midfield is what saw him reduced to being more peripheral.
It's early days but in that McClaren side instead (obviously not out wide) he'd have looked sublime. I'd have loved to see him play with a prime Thorne and Hughes.  

I think I'd agree with that broadly. But I think it does depend on whether we are going ahead with 433. (Which I think we likely should). Adams played as a box a box just suits his strengths better and its easier to minimise his difficulties.

I think it's a combination of things:
- Some actually have expressed that sentiment
- Some might feel like it's a false dawn but don't want to rain on people's parades
- Some might not really see an improvement but a win's a win
- People, especially on the internet, are far far more likely to express something when they are frustrated or angry
- And then there might be a tiny tiny amount of people who are genuinely there to troll.

Said it in another thread but it's almost a distillation of him as a player. There are very few players at this level who in the 97th minute could have made that opportunity happen. But..... if he could reliably pass the ball where he meant to, he wouldn't be playing for us. 

I mean that's part of the product with how we play at times. First half he was actively seeking the ball dropping into space, getting on the ball and frankly looked the best player on the pitch. But we tried to play through the middle. The disruption to the midfield and how we shifted to bypassing the midfield is what saw him reduced to being more peripheral.
It's early days but in that McClaren side instead (obviously not out wide) he'd have looked sublime. I'd have loved to see him play with a prime Thorne and Hughes.  

At the start of the season, I ddin't expect Ozoh to be so influencial to our play. I was actually expecting him to be battling with Adams for that DM spot. However, the last few games has convinced me that Adams is better as the box to box LCM. It also means we should be looking at a stronger backup for the role Ozoh now has as we've seen the big difference in just the 45 minutes vs Cardiff. That signing would now be my 2nd priority (behind a CF), overtakign the need for a LB/LWB

Just got round to watching this.
First half was excellent and honestly I thought in some ways better than the Bristol performance. Building on those positive signs. Noticeably we were trying to play our way out far more, less aimless punts and some of the linkup play was sublime at times, I think with that fraction extra sharpness I think we'd have put them to the sword here. Kenzo and Yates were real standouts, the two of them are quickly raising up the list of individual players that I've most enjoyed watching play for us. I may be one of the biggest proponents for possession based football on here but when I'm talking about it I'm not necessarily talking just keeping it for the sake but more that we look like we care about having the ball and recycle it when something isn't on. That's the big shift I'm seeing in this first half performance and against Bristol is a shift towards going quickly when it's on and then showing some patience if it isn't. I think it's a fantastic sign that our first 11 can play good football and be very competitive in the division. 
Second half though.... in some ways I'm not sure to make of it. I suspect I'll be more negative than some about it because I honestly feel that Cardiff weren't terrible we could have easily been in trouble. All the positives I was talking about above went out the window and we looked every bit the recent promoted league 1 wanting to play the percentages and try to hold onto the lead. I'm not sure how much was tactical, how much was down to player responding to the game situation and how much was the enforced change. 
With Ozoh going we seemed to completely lose the ability to play through the midfield. Adams brought in a deeper role was punting possession away left and right and players were reluctant to move the ball through him, it has to be said that whilst he's truly excellent out of possession he's a liability in it. Shifting so he was the sole pivot means the ball kinda has to go through him and it just couldn't. Osborn wasn't much help either both slow to react to get into space for the pass and sloppy in possession. It was noticeable how we tried to keep playing the same way for about 10 minutes before giving up, with nerves visibly spreading through the team. Which meant we started play long aimless balls to a 5ft9 striker. I don't how much of this shift was tactical from the bench versus how much was a team getting the jitters with a slender lead but it needed to be addressed quickly. This has had the following impact that we tired faster and first time in the past two games it started to get easy to cut through the middle. We did try to address it in some ways by shifting to a back 3 but that felt more like tackling the symptom of 'Cardiff are on top' versus the root cause of losing our ability to progress with the ball and in anyway retain it. I think some changes needed to come earlier and I think needed to be another striker coming on instead of forsyth, nyambe going off and either Harness coming on at RWB or Ward coming on.
My main concern is how singularly disruptive losing Ozoh was and what we do about it going forwards because based on this game it can't just be swap him for Osborn and move Adams further back. It's not something that I think can be cleanly solved either.
On a brighter note:
- The connection building between the front 3 and Goudmijn is exciting to watch. Give them a platform and I think they'll be hard for any team to stop.
- It's outrageous how consistently Yates can open a defence with a flick.
- Goudmijn's confidence is growing and it's going to be fun to see exactly how high a level he can reach for us. There were several moments throughout the game were I thought to myself how the hell did nobody else snatch him up.
- Zetterstrom's reactions and awareness are fantastic. I'm not talking purely making saves either  but there were a couple moments where his fast reaction to danger snuffed out it out (when Cashin got caught and when the ball didn't go out and nobody reacted).
- The connection on our left hand side is really promising to see, it's noticeable how we can work a dangerous attack between Cashin, Elder, NML and Yates. 
 

I mean with the best will in the world, but step away from the club and the forum for a bit. Disconnect and come back to it a few weeks or months down the line. Don't burn yourself out on something you feel that you can only be negative towards. 
I completely get where you are coming from and was in that place for most of last season. Disconnecting and coming back meant I could lose some of the inherent frustration with it and try to enjoy things for what they were. It does help as well that we are seeing signs of doing something better. But I don't think I could have seen the positives if I'd stayed in it. 

Just got round to watching this.
First half was excellent and honestly I thought in some ways better than the Bristol performance. Building on those positive signs. Noticeably we were trying to play our way out far more, less aimless punts and some of the linkup play was sublime at times, I think with that fraction extra sharpness I think we'd have put them to the sword here. Kenzo and Yates were real standouts, the two of them are quickly raising up the list of individual players that I've most enjoyed watching play for us. I may be one of the biggest proponents for possession based football on here but when I'm talking about it I'm not necessarily talking just keeping it for the sake but more that we look like we care about having the ball and recycle it when something isn't on. That's the big shift I'm seeing in this first half performance and against Bristol is a shift towards going quickly when it's on and then showing some patience if it isn't. I think it's a fantastic sign that our first 11 can play good football and be very competitive in the division. 
Second half though.... in some ways I'm not sure to make of it. I suspect I'll be more negative than some about it because I honestly feel that Cardiff weren't terrible we could have easily been in trouble. All the positives I was talking about above went out the window and we looked every bit the recent promoted league 1 wanting to play the percentages and try to hold onto the lead. I'm not sure how much was tactical, how much was down to player responding to the game situation and how much was the enforced change. 
With Ozoh going we seemed to completely lose the ability to play through the midfield. Adams brought in a deeper role was punting possession away left and right and players were reluctant to move the ball through him, it has to be said that whilst he's truly excellent out of possession he's a liability in it. Shifting so he was the sole pivot means the ball kinda has to go through him and it just couldn't. Osborn wasn't much help either both slow to react to get into space for the pass and sloppy in possession. It was noticeable how we tried to keep playing the same way for about 10 minutes before giving up, with nerves visibly spreading through the team. Which meant we started play long aimless balls to a 5ft9 striker. I don't how much of this shift was tactical from the bench versus how much was a team getting the jitters with a slender lead but it needed to be addressed quickly. This has had the following impact that we tired faster and first time in the past two games it started to get easy to cut through the middle. We did try to address it in some ways by shifting to a back 3 but that felt more like tackling the symptom of 'Cardiff are on top' versus the root cause of losing our ability to progress with the ball and in anyway retain it. I think some changes needed to come earlier and I think needed to be another striker coming on instead of forsyth, nyambe going off and either Harness coming on at RWB or Ward coming on.
My main concern is how singularly disruptive losing Ozoh was and what we do about it going forwards because based on this game it can't just be swap him for Osborn and move Adams further back. It's not something that I think can be cleanly solved either.
On a brighter note:
- The connection building between the front 3 and Goudmijn is exciting to watch. Give them a platform and I think they'll be hard for any team to stop.
- It's outrageous how consistently Yates can open a defence with a flick.
- Goudmijn's confidence is growing and it's going to be fun to see exactly how high a level he can reach for us. There were several moments throughout the game were I thought to myself how the hell did nobody else snatch him up.
- Zetterstrom's reactions and awareness are fantastic. I'm not talking purely making saves either  but there were a couple moments where his fast reaction to danger snuffed out it out (when Cashin got caught and when the ball didn't go out and nobody reacted).
- The connection on our left hand side is really promising to see, it's noticeable how we can work a dangerous attack between Cashin, Elder, NML and Yates. 
 

Just got round to watching this.
First half was excellent and honestly I thought in some ways better than the Bristol performance. Building on those positive signs. Noticeably we were trying to play our way out far more, less aimless punts and some of the linkup play was sublime at times, I think with that fraction extra sharpness I think we'd have put them to the sword here. Kenzo and Yates were real standouts, the two of them are quickly raising up the list of individual players that I've most enjoyed watching play for us. I may be one of the biggest proponents for possession based football on here but when I'm talking about it I'm not necessarily talking just keeping it for the sake but more that we look like we care about having the ball and recycle it when something isn't on. That's the big shift I'm seeing in this first half performance and against Bristol is a shift towards going quickly when it's on and then showing some patience if it isn't. I think it's a fantastic sign that our first 11 can play good football and be very competitive in the division. 
Second half though.... in some ways I'm not sure to make of it. I suspect I'll be more negative than some about it because I honestly feel that Cardiff weren't terrible we could have easily been in trouble. All the positives I was talking about above went out the window and we looked every bit the recent promoted league 1 wanting to play the percentages and try to hold onto the lead. I'm not sure how much was tactical, how much was down to player responding to the game situation and how much was the enforced change. 
With Ozoh going we seemed to completely lose the ability to play through the midfield. Adams brought in a deeper role was punting possession away left and right and players were reluctant to move the ball through him, it has to be said that whilst he's truly excellent out of possession he's a liability in it. Shifting so he was the sole pivot means the ball kinda has to go through him and it just couldn't. Osborn wasn't much help either both slow to react to get into space for the pass and sloppy in possession. It was noticeable how we tried to keep playing the same way for about 10 minutes before giving up, with nerves visibly spreading through the team. Which meant we started play long aimless balls to a 5ft9 striker. I don't how much of this shift was tactical from the bench versus how much was a team getting the jitters with a slender lead but it needed to be addressed quickly. This has had the following impact that we tired faster and first time in the past two games it started to get easy to cut through the middle. We did try to address it in some ways by shifting to a back 3 but that felt more like tackling the symptom of 'Cardiff are on top' versus the root cause of losing our ability to progress with the ball and in anyway retain it. I think some changes needed to come earlier and I think needed to be another striker coming on instead of forsyth, nyambe going off and either Harness coming on at RWB or Ward coming on.
My main concern is how singularly disruptive losing Ozoh was and what we do about it going forwards because based on this game it can't just be swap him for Osborn and move Adams further back. It's not something that I think can be cleanly solved either.
On a brighter note:
- The connection building between the front 3 and Goudmijn is exciting to watch. Give them a platform and I think they'll be hard for any team to stop.
- It's outrageous how consistently Yates can open a defence with a flick.
- Goudmijn's confidence is growing and it's going to be fun to see exactly how high a level he can reach for us. There were several moments throughout the game were I thought to myself how the hell did nobody else snatch him up.
- Zetterstrom's reactions and awareness are fantastic. I'm not talking purely making saves either  but there were a couple moments where his fast reaction to danger snuffed out it out (when Cashin got caught and when the ball didn't go out and nobody reacted).
- The connection on our left hand side is really promising to see, it's noticeable how we can work a dangerous attack between Cashin, Elder, NML and Yates. 
 

Also Adams' kinda distils everything excellent and bad about him as a player into a single highlight.

I think there's really signs of the front three already building that connection with him. It's not always coming off but watch how they begin to move when he's on the ball, particularly Jackson. 

Between Yates & Goudmijn, the technical standard of this team has increased substantially in the past few weeks.
Not knowing much about Yates before he signed/having watched his highlights on Youtube, I'd assumed a mobile penalty box predator. He's far more than that & a great foil to the express pace we have out wide. Intelligent, awareness of others, great first touch & actually very unlucky not to have scored a couple already this season.
My only concern with him would be in games where we are really under the pump & he gets isolated but in games where we're able to compete in midfield, he gives us a real cutting edge by meshing the attack together.
Would be keen to sign him permanently if Swansea are reasonable on price.

I'd argue that in league 1 he was playing pretty text book percentage football in large part. With how I understand it percentage football is essentially definable by:
Get it forward quickly into the opponent's half through whatever means necessary. Having the ball matters less than where the ball is on the pitch Get the ball into the opponent's box as quickly and as frequently as you can. It matters far less how it's done and far more the frequency in which you are trying to do it. Heavy focus on errors in possession; don't keep the ball so you don't make them (especially in your half), look to force the opponents to. Heavy focus on getting and trying to score from set pieces Look to physically impose yourself on the opposition, and emphasise winning individual physical contests. That more or less describes how we played in a lot of games. People often get counterattacking football, longball football, percentage football and defensive football all mixed up. They overlap a lot and overlap with managers using them but there are I think distinctions between them.
But I do agree that on early evidence we are evolving beyond that and the game against Bristol wasn't that. 
As perhaps a strange aside it's a conceptual root behind gegenpressing. Which kinda goes to show that with some tweaks in how you approach a game it can go from ugly to exciting. 

Nobody's core underlying concern is coming from that they think X academy player should be starting without caveat. 
The issue is that Warne has had good opportunities to give minutes to players to help develop them and has frequently chosen not to do.  Players can develop rapidly with game time and that seems to happen more when it's game time for their own club rather than on loan. Obviously you don't do it mindlessly. But their is a huge gap between recklessly throwing them in and the current approach which is extremely conservative.
That's the thing it's never a good season to integrate youngsters. There will always be a reason not to do it. If you only introduce players who are clearly extremely good or you wait until someone is absolutely ready before getting any game time you will barely get out of the academy what you could have done. 
Even this season with the entire focus being on survival it would have cost us close to nothing towards that goal to start Brown against Barrow or bring him on earlier against Bristol. And you potentially gain a lot by doing that.

Nobody's core underlying concern is coming from that they think X academy player should be starting without caveat. 
The issue is that Warne has had good opportunities to give minutes to players to help develop them and has frequently chosen not to do.  Players can develop rapidly with game time and that seems to happen more when it's game time for their own club rather than on loan. Obviously you don't do it mindlessly. But their is a huge gap between recklessly throwing them in and the current approach which is extremely conservative.
That's the thing it's never a good season to integrate youngsters. There will always be a reason not to do it. If you only introduce players who are clearly extremely good or you wait until someone is absolutely ready before getting any game time you will barely get out of the academy what you could have done. 
Even this season with the entire focus being on survival it would have cost us close to nothing towards that goal to start Brown against Barrow or bring him on earlier against Bristol. And you potentially gain a lot by doing that.

Nobody's core underlying concern is coming from that they think X academy player should be starting without caveat. 
The issue is that Warne has had good opportunities to give minutes to players to help develop them and has frequently chosen not to do.  Players can develop rapidly with game time and that seems to happen more when it's game time for their own club rather than on loan. Obviously you don't do it mindlessly. But their is a huge gap between recklessly throwing them in and the current approach which is extremely conservative.
That's the thing it's never a good season to integrate youngsters. There will always be a reason not to do it. If you only introduce players who are clearly extremely good or you wait until someone is absolutely ready before getting any game time you will barely get out of the academy what you could have done. 
Even this season with the entire focus being on survival it would have cost us close to nothing towards that goal to start Brown against Barrow or bring him on earlier against Bristol. And you potentially gain a lot by doing that.

Agreed, you both want to see if we've circled on something that works and it sends out a terrible message to the squad if you start tinkering. 

Nah not exactly. It's a statistical score and based on real elements, think of it more as a way to loosely distil everything about a player into an expected value of their current worth for comparative purposes. Like with any score or statistic in general you do need to have an idea of how it's been calculated so you have a sense of what it's truly telling you. It's like how xG gets frequently misinterpreted. I do have my doubts on exactly how valid it is but as a rough outline it's probably good enough in most places.
If you're interested:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.in/transfermarkt-market-value-explained-how-is-it-determined-/view/news/385100