Paul Jewell era II

[SaintRam]

This is the forum version of you standing outside the iPro looking haggered wearing cardboard that has "THE END IS NIGH" written on it. 

 

Frankly I don't think we were as close to success as you or many others think. 

 

Mel Morris thought we were close to success, so he sacked Paul Clement who didn't agree. Everyone tore him up for it but that's what people like you wanted, after we'd spent all that money on players who weren't the Clough/McClaren squad that was OBVIOUSLY good enough to get into the prem (despite, you know, never managing it). 

Now it seems plenty of other people, including Pearson have told Mel that "you know, actually, there's something seriously wrong with this group of players and changes need to be made." A lot of us have been saying that for a while (not the wrist slashers, those who questioned the mentality of the players) and now it seems the club is in agreement. 

 

 

[Mostyn6]

43 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

This truly marks the beginning of a new cycle at Derby, and it's going to be feckin ugly.

After we flop under Nigel Pearson, he'll end up getting the boot and we'll have to go on another cost-cutting rampage of sorting out the clusterfack of a squad Mel Morris has given us.

Paul Jewell first season in the Championsip all over again.

All the hard work of five years under Clough has been thrown down the sh!tter.

Feel sorry for the honest players such as Keogh, Martin, Bryson and Russell... They don't deserve this mess at all and they certainly don't deserve a chunk of our support blaming them for our dire displays under Nigel Pearson.

Hope them four, plus Hughes, go on and have decent careers elsewhere. 

you couldn't predict a Sunday on Saturday you wet lettuce!

I suggest doing research. Have a look at how Brian Clough splashed the cash around in the late 60s, we were the equivalent of Manchester City back then for transfer fees. IN spite of that, Brian Clough is a legend here, even though we were booted out of European competition as a result of financial shenanigans.

You need to lighten up, Paul Jewell was clutching at straws and blew about £25m on 23 players in the calendar year of 2008. This is very different, we are spending big individual fees on perceived quality. Vydra does not compare to Ellington, or vice versa.

Your argument a couple of weeks back that we didn't have compatible manager and players, your argument this week is that you don't want us to bring in quality players (to replace those incompatible players).

Sounds like you're having some sort of breakdown Tom. I do wonder though, why would you feel sorry for Keogh, Bryson, Martin and Russell? If they are good enough, they will play or be bought, if not, they will be still earning their much improved, but hardly deserved new contracts for failing.

[DCFCArmy]

I'll be happy when they've sold a few of the old guard, if we can recoup about 25m for say Martin, Hendrick, Hughes and maybe even throw Blackman or Johnson in there, then I'd be happy. 

Too many times the old guard have failed, but I'd say we've got a get out card with Hendrick's good Euros and Hughes being a good young player, if we got a bid of 8m for Hendrick and 15m for Hughes I'd sell for sure, maybe try and get 7-9m for Martin as well, and that would leave Blackman, Bent and Johnson, dunno who would actually bid for those 3 at this moment in time but if we could offload 1 or even 2 it'd be good, not being horrible just think none of them fit in if you ask me, I feel sorry for Johnson because he's obviously a good player at this level, but would be better off back at Norwich maybe. 

I'm not comfortable with another spending spree if we don't offload some of our own players.

[Wolfie20]

33 minutes ago, Andrew James said:

These are odd comments, Paul Jewel was useless, clueless and we have lacked pace and counter attacking style for a while. It's not our money and Newcastle have spent £40 plus million, Villa £20 plus and we need to change as our arrogant lightweight team have not delivered. Leicester tore us apart in the championship and Pearson is NO Paul Jewel. Let's hope the lad from Bristol joins as well. NP has given Bent a rope to hang himself and he is doing a good job being offside so many times. This is a new era, Hughes and Hendrick are capable of threading balls through with what will become a lively attacking side. 

If you read this guy's other posts (particularly the most recent) you'll soon see that most of them are odd. He's one of the most negative contributors to this forum and the poorer we are, the greater delight he seems to take. Wouldn't be surprised if he's high in the list of 'ignores'. Hopefully he'll carry out his intent to stop supporting the Rams 'for a while' and that will include not posting here.

To put Pearson on a similar footing to Jewell is plain loopy!

[Van der MoodHoover]

Mystic Bris dips into his bag of prophecies.......

It is one of a range of possible scenarios of course. Not the most likely in my view. But I could be wrong of course.

[RiddingsRam]

@Bris Vegas why do you even support Derby ? Seriously? All you ever do is moan about them ! Why don't you try actually getting behind the regime instead of constantly being against them . What do you get out of it ?

[Jimbo Ram]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

This truly marks the beginning of a new cycle at Derby, and it's going to be feckin ugly.

After we flop under Nigel Pearson, he'll end up getting the boot and we'll have to go on another cost-cutting rampage of sorting out the clusterfack of a squad Mel Morris has given us.

Paul Jewell first season in the Championsip all over again.

All the hard work of five years under Clough has been thrown down the sh!tter.

Feel sorry for the honest players such as Keogh, Martin, Bryson and Russell... They don't deserve this mess at all and they certainly don't deserve a chunk of our support blaming them for our dire displays under Nigel Pearson.

Hope them four, plus Hughes, go on and have decent careers elsewhere. 

Don't think NP has a track record of flopping. Think he deserves more than 5 games before he gets all of this ridiculous, stupid criticism.

[Andrew James]

7 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Don't think NP has a track record of flopping. Think he deserves more than 5 games before he gets all of this ridiculous, stupid criticism.

Yes he is not a flop, either as a player or a manager... He won't let Mel buy flops.. 

[Bris Vegas]

38 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

you couldn't predict a Sunday on Saturday you wet lettuce!

I suggest doing research. Have a look at how Brian Clough splashed the cash around in the late 60s, we were the equivalent of Manchester City back then for transfer fees. IN spite of that, Brian Clough is a legend here, even though we were booted out of European competition as a result of financial shenanigans.

You need to lighten up, Paul Jewell was clutching at straws and blew about £25m on 23 players in the calendar year of 2008. This is very different, we are spending big individual fees on perceived quality. Vydra does not compare to Ellington, or vice versa.

Your argument a couple of weeks back that we didn't have compatible manager and players, your argument this week is that you don't want us to bring in quality players (to replace those incompatible players).

Sounds like you're having some sort of breakdown Tom. I do wonder though, why would you feel sorry for Keogh, Bryson, Martin and Russell? If they are good enough, they will play or be bought, if not, they will be still earning their much improved, but hardly deserved new contracts for failing.

Perceived quality? We've bought a shed load of players and then asked ourselves after wards 'Ok how do we fit these players into the current system and get the best out of them'?

The club's spending over the past 18 months has been laughable. Not just the fees, but buying players who clearly didn't fit the profile needed. Woeful recruitment team.

My arguement now is we've left it until the last few days of the transfer window to panic buy and spent massive sums on just one player. Perhaps more huge sums on another player.

2/3 of this squad CANNOT play anywhere near to their potential under Nigel Pearson's style. Do you think spending an extra £20 million on two players is going to make a huge difference?

Worst part about it is the two players in question aren't suited to a 433 system, so it's not like we have something to fall back on if Pearson gets the boot and Wassall comes in to sort us out again.

This is very comparable to the Paul Jewell era, except this time we've spent more. By the time the window is over we could have spent £50m in fees on new players (over past 18 months) and still have 2/3 of the squad suited to 433, and the rest in different systems.

Either way we're going to end up with a big squad on big wages with different players suited to different systems. 

Mel Morris is a Derby man and I applaud his effort, but to get out of one £30m clusterfack of a mess he's going to end up spending another £20m+ to create an even bigger mess.

He's either being very badly advised or is too stubborn to see past his obvious mistakes.

 

[Bris Vegas]

26 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

If you read this guy's other posts (particularly the most recent) you'll soon see that most of them are odd. He's one of the most negative contributors to this forum and the poorer we are, the greater delight he seems to take. Wouldn't be surprised if he's high in the list of 'ignores'. Hopefully he'll carry out his intent to stop supporting the Rams 'for a while' and that will include not posting here.

To put Pearson on a similar footing to Jewell is plain loopy!

Not comparing Pearson to Jewell in terms of managerial ability. I'm comparing eras.

While I think Pearson is wrong for not trying to adapt to the players he has at his disposal, I don't blame him for wanting to play his variation of 442 as he has had success with it in the past.

Mel Morris is the main culprit for the playing squad mess we have. Poor decision after poor decison.

[Mostyn6]

4 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Perceived quality? We've bought a shed load of players and then asked ourselves after wards 'Ok how do we fit these players into the current system and get the best out of them'?

The club's spending over the past 18 months has been laughable. Not just the fees, but buying players who clearly didn't fit the profile needed. Woeful recruitment team.

My arguement now is we've left it until the last few days of the transfer window to panic buy and spent massive sums on just one player. Perhaps more huge sums on another player.

2/3 of this squad CANNOT play anywhere near to their potential under Nigel Pearson's style. Do you think spending an extra £20 million on two players is going to make a huge difference?

Worst part about it is the two players in question aren't suited to a 433 system, so it's not like we have something to fall back on if Pearson gets the boot and Wassall comes in to sort us out again.

This is very comparable to the Paul Jewell era, except this time we've spent more. By the time the window is over we could have spent £50m in fees on new players (over past 18 months) and still have 2/3 of the squad suited to 433, and the rest in different systems.

Either way we're going to end up with a big squad on big wages with different players suited to different systems. 

Mel Morris is a Derby man and I applaud his effort, but to get out of one £30m clusterfack of a mess he's going to end up spending another £20m+ to create an even bigger mess.

He's either being very badly advised or is too stubborn to see past his obvious mistakes.

 

right, this is how I see it. Almost 100% of what you've just written is negative scaremongering conjecture. <1% is fact, and that is the Jewell bits.

Players at this level, when managed properly and drilled properly can adjust to games, and whilst I agree they are currently struggling to grasp what is being asked, there's nothing, and I meant absolutely NOTHING to prevent them eventually clicking. That may not fit in for those impatient fans who cannot grasp the concept of "Progress", and whilst I accept that there are very minimal signs of any thus far.

Similarly, you don't know who is leaving, so how do you know what squad we will be left with. Jewell left us with a load of players not worthy of a first team place, the likes of Varney, Pereplotkins etc, however there isn't a player in the current squad who is incapable of playing well at this level, and I include scapegoats like Blackman, Bent and Baird in that.

What disappoints me most is that you are joining in with those lacking intelligence who treat the transfer fee spent as if it means anything to them personally, and getting hung up about it. So ******* what? What difference does it make to you whether Vydra cost £8million or £800,000? He's either good enough or he's not. Why is the price tag anything?

If we end up with a big squad on big wages, what does it matter? If the team clicks and starts playing well, it'll be worth it. I guarantee that we won't have the biggest wage bill or the biggest squad in the Championship.

[Wolfie20]

11 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Perceived quality? We've bought a shed load of players and then asked ourselves after wards 'Ok how do we fit these players into the current system and get the best out of them'?

The club's spending over the past 18 months has been laughable. Not just the fees, but buying players who clearly didn't fit the profile needed. Woeful recruitment team.

My arguement now is we've left it until the last few days of the transfer window to panic buy and spent massive sums on just one player. Perhaps more huge sums on another player.

2/3 of this squad CANNOT play anywhere near to their potential under Nigel Pearson's style. Do you think spending an extra £20 million on two players is going to make a huge difference?

Worst part about it is the two players in question aren't suited to a 433 system, so it's not like we have something to fall back on if Pearson gets the boot and Wassall comes in to sort us out again.

This is very comparable to the Paul Jewell era, except this time we've spent more. By the time the window is over we could have spent £50m in fees on new players (over past 18 months) and still have 2/3 of the squad suited to 433, and the rest in different systems.

Either way we're going to end up with a big squad on big wages with different players suited to different systems. 

Mel Morris is a Derby man and I applaud his effort, but to get out of one £30m clusterfack of a mess he's going to end up spending another £20m+ to create an even bigger mess.

He's either being very badly advised or is too stubborn to see past his obvious mistakes.

 

Or you're completely and utterly wrong in predicting how the remainder of this season is going to pan out!

[PistoldPete2]

1 hour ago, robglosta said:

Top 6: 

1 Huddersfield

2 Fulham

3 Barnsley

4 QPR

5 Bristol City

6 Nottm Forest

What does that tell you?

  

This tells me that we are not far behind the teams who will get promoted or we are a team that will get promoted. We've had a terrible start... I think we will miss fozzy and are certainly missing thorne and Hendrick. But we've strngthened in other areas now and if these players either return from injury or are replaced then I think our results will improve , maybe massively. 

[Bris Vegas]

6 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

right, this is how I see it. Almost 100% of what you've just written is negative scaremongering conjecture. <1% is fact, and that is the Jewell bits.

Players at this level, when managed properly and drilled properly can adjust to games, and whilst I agree they are currently struggling to grasp what is being asked, there's nothing, and I meant absolutely NOTHING to prevent them eventually clicking. That may not fit in for those impatient fans who cannot grasp the concept of "Progress", and whilst I accept that there are very minimal signs of any thus far.

Similarly, you don't know who is leaving, so how do you know what squad we will be left with. Jewell left us with a load of players not worthy of a first team place, the likes of Varney, Pereplotkins etc, however there isn't a player in the current squad who is incapable of playing well at this level, and I include scapegoats like Blackman, Bent and Baird in that.

What disappoints me most is that you are joining in with those lacking intelligence who treat the transfer fee spent as if it means anything to them personally, and getting hung up about it. So ******* what? What difference does it make to you whether Vydra cost £8million or £800,000? He's either good enough or he's not. Why is the price tag anything?

If we end up with a big squad on big wages, what does it matter? If the team clicks and starts playing well, it'll be worth it. I guarantee that we won't have the biggest wage bill or the biggest squad in the Championship.

My take on it all has been done to death now. We clearly have different views on matters. I'll just sit back and watch how it all pans out for the season 

 

 

[nfb]

19 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Perceived quality? We've bought a shed load of players and then asked ourselves after wards 'Ok how do we fit these players into the current system and get the best out of them'?

The club's spending over the past 18 months has been laughable. Not just the fees, but buying players who clearly didn't fit the profile needed. Woeful recruitment team.

My arguement now is we've left it until the last few days of the transfer window to panic buy and spent massive sums on just one player. Perhaps more huge sums on another player.

2/3 of this squad CANNOT play anywhere near to their potential under Nigel Pearson's style. Do you think spending an extra £20 million on two players is going to make a huge difference?

Worst part about it is the two players in question aren't suited to a 433 system, so it's not like we have something to fall back on if Pearson gets the boot and Wassall comes in to sort us out again.

This is very comparable to the Paul Jewell era, except this time we've spent more. By the time the window is over we could have spent £50m in fees on new players (over past 18 months) and still have 2/3 of the squad suited to 433, and the rest in different systems.

Either way we're going to end up with a big squad on big wages with different players suited to different systems. 

Mel Morris is a Derby man and I applaud his effort, but to get out of one £30m clusterfack of a mess he's going to end up spending another £20m+ to create an even bigger mess.

He's either being very badly advised or is too stubborn to see past his obvious mistakes.

 

I think im one of the few who don't disagree with your assesment, i agree in particular with the bit i highlighted, and worry about further recruitment, in case your right, and i too applaud MM but i worry he's being badly advised !

I posted this earlier in a different thread but it applies here too -

'one thing i know wont happen is what some on this forum have been naively saying which is MM should sack the lot of them bring back NC/SMC, or get Warburton, as if he would ? It would cost him (guessing) 60/75million plus to sack everyone and pay off their contracts, then buy a new team in todays market !..... dream on.

He interviewed NP and others, (and it has to be said in the poll in the DET - Pearson had approx 35% of the vote from fans next being Martinez 19% Rowett 11% etc) he chose Pearson and said he felt he was the stand out one for the job. Now we will see, because MM chose Clement and got his fingers burnt, so if he does again because Pearson fails, despite his generosity towards this club, fans will want his head next, and then where will we be ?

Be careful what you wish for is a phrase that springs to mind , look at florist, they hounded out Doughty, and now ??

[i-Ram]

21 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

My take on it all has been done to death now. We clearly have different views on matters. I'll just sit back and watch how it all pans out for the season 

You strike me as someone who was predicted a B for Drama at school but ended up  with a C.

[Cool As Custard]

2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

This truly marks the beginning of a new cycle at Derby, and it's going to be feckin ugly.

After we flop under Nigel Pearson, he'll end up getting the boot and we'll have to go on another cost-cutting rampage of sorting out the clusterfack of a squad Mel Morris has given us.

Paul Jewell first season in the Championsip all over again.

All the hard work of five years under Clough has been thrown down the sh!tter.

Feel sorry for the honest players such as Keogh, Martin, Bryson and Russell... They don't deserve this mess at all and they certainly don't deserve a chunk of our support blaming them for our dire displays under Nigel Pearson.

Hope them four, plus Hughes, go on and have decent careers elsewhere. 

Also I quite liked the Paul Jewell era...... ?

[unclej]

For what its worth, I saw PJ on the bridge to the Emirates a couple of years ago, and thanked him for the 'F'ing mess he left us in'. He just shrugged. 

[Mostyn6]

20 minutes ago, unclej said:

For what its worth, I saw PJ on the bridge to the Emirates a couple of years ago, and thanked him for the 'F'ing mess he left us in'. He just shrugged. 

I think he tried hard, but just didn't have the answers. They shouldn't have backed him. They should've made him work with what he had, he might've done better.

[RadioactiveWaste]

2 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

I think he tried hard, but just didn't have the answers. They shouldn't have backed him. They should've made him work with what he had, he might've done better.

Im sure he tried, but was hopeless. I was worried when we tried to replace the whole team the summer after that season, spent loads getting out and in and thought it didnt feel good. Glavanising the PL players as a chance a redemption might well have seen a different path, but hey ho.