If Clough gets another 3 years...

[Leeds Ram]

Just because someone is classed as a billionaire, does not mean they have £1billion in cash to do whatever they want with. Classic examples Hicks and Gillette - two American mega rich businessmen who didnt have a pot to piss in.

Indeed, however with multiple billionaires my bet is they have substantial cash funds or they could take a significant loan out if they needed, people aren't labelled billionaires for no reason, they have to have assets worth a billion or more, or cash worth a billion or more or a mixture of both, it is reasonable to assume with them subsidizing the club at the present time that they have substantial cash reserves.

[froggg]

I think the arguments about money are fundamental to the whole ethos which engages fans in diatribes of fiscal debate causing diametrically opposed factions to offer discourse and regimented inflammatory opinion.

Tits out.

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/file.php?40,file=14557,filename=ManTits

[GboroRam]

Indeed, however with multiple billionaires my bet is they have substantial cash funds or they could take a significant loan out if they needed, people aren't labelled billionaires for no reason, they have to have assets worth a billion or more, or cash worth a billion or more or a mixture of both, it is reasonable to assume with them subsidizing the club at the present time that they have substantial cash reserves.

I'm not so sure it is reasonable. It's a global financial crisis; who knows what the state of play for these guys is?

Besides, it's a bit of a moot point. It's not as though one of them is going to wake up this morning and remember he's loaded, and blow a load of cash on the team. Clearly they didn't get to be millionaire businessmen by spending it.

[davenportram]

They have put around £24m in since purchase. A lot of that covering losses (that they may have generated through excessive players wages under Jewell) but they have put it in.

[AndyB]

I think Clough should get a contract extension. Since he arrived he's had to reduce the wage bill considerably, bring in more money in transfer fees than he's spent and at the same time keep the club in roughly the same position as they were when he joined. That's a good result given what he's been asked to work with.

In the meantime he's brought in good players that are within his budget - Fielding, Brayford, Barker, Shackell, Bailey, Ward, Tyson, etc and given some of the young players a chance.

If Clough had been given even a reasonable Championship budget we'd be a Premier league club by now.

What annoys me is that Glick thinks he has the right to judge Clough when he clearly doesn't know the first thing about English football!

[smiffy]

I think Clough should get a contract extension. Since he arrived he's had to reduce the wage bill considerably, bring in more money in transfer fees than he's spent and at the same time keep the club in roughly the same position as they were when he joined. That's a good result given what he's been asked to work with.

In the meantime he's brought in good players that are within his budget - Fielding, Brayford, Barker, Shackell, Bailey, Ward, Tyson, etc and given some of the young players a chance.

If Clough had been given even a reasonable Championship budget we'd be a Premier league club by now.

What annoys me is that Glick thinks he has the right to judge Clough when he clearly doesn't know the first thing about English football!

So do you think that Clough would not have bought Brayford and Barker if he had had more cash ?

[AndyB]

No I think he would have bought them but with a bigger budget he would also have been able to buy some of the other players we've been linked with who've been out of our budget e.g. Sharp, Hooper, etc.

[ianm]

No I think he would have bought them but with a bigger budget he would also have been able to buy some of the other players we've been linked with who've been out of our budget e.g. Sharp, Hooper, etc.

Yes but we don't generate enough money to afford the package these types of player commands, with the wage bill we are still committed to, if we can eventually get the wages to the right level and we are still carrying big earners now who are of no use to us, we can generate small profits and re-invest in the team. The Americans could put money into paying transfer fees rather than paying the bills, which is still happening at this point still keeping the wages within budget, that is what Burton do for example.

The plan is clear and in the long term correct but my query is the Glick/Clough combination doing well enough to make the plan come to fruit some transfer policy decision seems wasteful still, which delays the whole process further, gate income for our size of attendance is measly and are we ever going to get it right.

The local media is inept at asking these types of question these days, which are crucial in eventually us getting a team and club we can be proud of again. It is people like us who [put these things in the public arena.

It is clear some people expect the owners to put money in themselves like Leicester (who have been insolvent before and may well be again if they don't get into the PL) but if you don't go up you are committed to the contracts of players not good enough to take you up for years to come, we have been down that road more than once and it doesn't work for this club.

[jtae]

Indeed, however with multiple billionaires my bet is they have substantial cash funds or they could take a significant loan out if they needed, people aren't labelled billionaires for no reason, they have to have assets worth a billion or more, or cash worth a billion or more or a mixture of both, it is reasonable to assume with them subsidizing the club at the present time that they have substantial cash reserves.

There's a lot of problems with the 'Investors' that we have got. Having them purely as investors, from overseas is not going to help the club nor take it forward. We are being run by accountants. Unfortunately that doesn't work too well in football, a realistic view on it would be to stay in the Championship for the next 5 years until the money we are investing finally builds a strong enough team. But, as we add to it we'll have to sell players to balance the books. So therefore we shall never move forward that quickly. GSE don't own the club, they run it. Billionaire investors are no good to the club unless it's a love affair. How often do they come to the games? Once or twice a year? That is not a love affair. 2 ways it could go, if we do the unthinkable and achieve promotion in the near future, they will be in a position to capitalise on it either by investing tenfold into the squad to keep them in the Premiership or sell the club to all make a quick buck!

Take Stoke as an example. They are owned by the guy who owns bet365, local Stoke guy who is worth about £700million, his Son and Daughter are on the board and all 3 are nuts about Stoke. They have the most rigid wage structure outside the bottom 5 clubs in the Prem. They've invested in the club wisely, from the Championship to slowly investing more season on season in the Premiership.

In an ideal world we need a local businessman who loves Derby County, most of you might think Peter Gadsby is the only guy who has any kind of money that loves Derby County... maybe he's not. Paul Sisson, owner of mobilephones.net, fastest growing private company in the UK, sales increases of 340% a year and a business turnover of nearly £100million. I believe he is also a Derby County fan. Maybe, just maybe one our rich billionaire investors will buy Pauls company for a billion, then he can come along with some passion and a love for the club and drive it forward. (dreaming I know)

Don't think it is fair to blame all of this on Clough, if you brought in anyone else I don't think they could do much better. The grass is always greener and that?! I think we are better off with a bit consistency in management, coaching and players.

[AndyB]

We operate like a Doncaster yet we're one of the biggest clubs in the Championship. I don't think we should do a Leicester but we should at least operate a decent Championship budget. If moving players on is the big issue why haven't we moved players on? Glick is inept as a Championship CEO in my opinion.

[ianm]

We operate like a Doncaster yet we're one of the biggest clubs in the Championship. I don't think we should do a Leicester but we should at least operate a decent Championship budget. If moving players on is the big issue why haven't we moved players on? Glick is inept as a Championship CEO in my opinion.

We don't operate like Doncaster total wages in the last accounts were 16.4 million, right up to July we were paying Savage 17.5 k a week, to move forward we have to get those total wages down to 10m or so Glick says with current turnover then we can start to generate our own money. We may be one of the biggest clubs but there will be others with higher turnover, especially those coming down from the PL and there are clubs on lower gates who generate more gate income Forest do and I bet Leicester do as well.

I wouldn't go as far as to say Glick was inept but questions need to be asked to his level of performance.

[Day]

If moving players on is the big issue why haven't we moved players on? Glick is inept as a Championship CEO in my opinion.

List a pair of manky old smelly stained trainers on eBay and see how many watchers/bids you get.

Glick would have a better chance selling snow to the eskimos than finding a buyer for Bywater, Leacock and Pearson.

To offload them costs money as well, if the player refuses to accept a lower compensation package from the club, a sum that they would of earned during the remainder of the contract you may aswell keep them incase some nutcase manager comes along.

Those 3 players could be Billy Davies first venture into the transfer market with his new club (god help them).

[AndyB]

Bywater, Leacock and Pearson are all experienced Championship players and were all instrumental in our promotion to the PL in 2006/7. None of them are near to the end of their careers and could all do a job for other clubs. I don't think they are unattractive acquisitions. Maybe our Ebay ad hasn't sold them well enough!

[Day]

Bywater, Leacock and Pearson are all experienced Championship players and were all instrumental in our promotion to the PL in 2006/7. None of them are near to the end of their careers and could all do a job for other clubs. I don't think they are unattractive acquisitions. Maybe our Ebay ad hasn't sold them well enough!

5 seasons ago, what have they done since?

Clough clearly wants rid, with Glick he has been banging on in the press how he wants rid. "IMO" we wouldn't of even asked for a big fee if any at all just so we can get rid, you could say a free listing with free p&p with a choice of 30,000 couriers with same day delivery.

Why have we had no takers.....

Do other managers agree with Clough that they are duff?

Has there been interest and Glick is asking silly money?

Has there been interest and the players are refusing to accept a lower wage and would rather sit on their arses for the remainder of the contract?

[ianm]

Bywater, Leacock and Pearson are all experienced Championship players and were all instrumental in our promotion to the PL in 2006/7. None of them are near to the end of their careers and could all do a job for other clubs. I don't think they are unattractive acquisitions. Maybe our Ebay ad hasn't sold them well enough!

I agree but on the contracts they will be on nobody will pay anything like that, wherever they go next. So they are faced with the choice of move somewhere else for a lot less pay, or stay on the gravy train with the money till next July when the contract runs its course. They could of course barter a pay off and then move, no win situation for us though.

[MuespachRam]

We operate like a Doncaster yet we're one of the biggest clubs in the Championship. I don't think we should do a Leicester but we should at least operate a decent Championship budget. If moving players on is the big issue why haven't we moved players on? Glick is inept as a Championship CEO in my opinion.

you have answered your own question...being able to move the players on IS the issue, amd this has nothing to do with the board at all, it is purely to do with the fact that no one wants to buy them. (because they are not good enough)

Have you seen the list of footballers without clubs? There just isnt the money around for teams like Barnsley, Palace or Derby to have the luxury of Dean Leacock playing reserve team football anymore.

and who IS a good CEO then...?Simon jordan? Milan Mandoric?

[smiffy]

No I think he would have bought them but with a bigger budget he would also have been able to buy some of the other players we've been linked with who've been out of our budget e.g. Sharp, Hooper, etc.

Maybe if, as has been proffered by some, that Clough has a touch of God Syndrome, then maybe he would NOT have spent a great deal more.

I am not sure on this, but I do think he believes he is better than he really is, self confidence is all very well, but can be taken too far.

He could have had Hooper it is said, but refused to pay the asking price, if that is so then that blows your point out of the water.

[AndyB]

Who at Derby is responsible for moving these players on? Why haven't we made them attractive to other clubs? Why haven't they gone out on loan? Why aren't we doing deals? All 3 are capable of doing a job in the Championship, or in Scotland, or in other leagues. These players not playing and Derby paying their full wages is the worst scenario. Where is our knowledgable football expert, wheeler dealer, etc? Glick is not that person. Apparently several months ago we wanted a "Director of Football" type to add weight to these negotiations. Where is he?

[AndyB]

He could have had Hooper it is said, but refused to pay the asking price, if that is so then that blows your point out of the water.

But if he had a bigger budget to work with he may have paid the asking price?

[smiffy]

Who at Derby is responsible for moving these players on? Why haven't we made them attractive to other clubs? Why haven't they gone out on loan? Why aren't we doing deals? All 3 are capable of doing a job in the Championship, or in Scotland, or in other leagues. These players not playing and Derby paying their full wages is the worst scenario. Where is our knowledgable football expert, wheeler dealer, etc? Glick is not that person. Apparently several months ago we wanted a "Director of Football" type to add weight to these negotiations. Where is he?

Clough ?