Boycie Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Have you got any evidence that our gate income is less than Forest's is is that a guess? As for a price cut raising gate depends on the elasticity of demand for tickets. For example a 10% reduction in ticket prices doesn't increase income unless it results in an increase of full paying customers by at least 10%. I doubt that £3 would generate any significant extra demand. If demand is inelastic, as in the example above,and a decrease in price produces a less than proportionate increase on demand any blanket price reduction will cost the club money. It makes more sense to offer some discounted tickets in this scenario as if they are sold then the club makes extra money. I'm sure that this will be factored into the pricing models used. wot he said. i mean i concur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Cant see any reason to get clough out atm but a bad result next saturday may tilt my argument a bit. Its September We are fifth jeeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSD Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 http://www.prbsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/panic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Well at the moment they are pumping money in to cover the continuous losses the club make and it is pretty clear they don't want to put any more in over and above this, they didn't get rich in the first place by chucking money away. I can understand this but the reason the finances are still poor are because Glick has been pretty poor in a. generating income and b. cutting costs by enough and Clough has not provided a player who can get them out of jail by attracting a PL club offering millions. That may change in Jan with Brayford if he keeps up his standards. Can you back this up with figures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianm Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Have you got any evidence that our gate income is less than Forest's is is that a guess? As for a price cut raising gate depends on the elasticity of demand for tickets. For example a 10% reduction in ticket prices doesn't increase income unless it results in an increase of full paying customers by at least 10%. I doubt that £3 would generate any significant extra demand. If demand is inelastic, as in the example above,and a decrease in price produces a less than proportionate increase on demand any blanket price reduction will cost the club money. It makes more sense to offer some discounted tickets in this scenario as if they are sold then the club makes extra money. I'm sure that this will be factored into the pricing models used. No its not a guess Forest had 7.124m in gate receipts 09/10 we had 6.319m, in the last published annual accounts, so their smaller gates produce more money. In that season we produced £10 per atendee after VAT, which shows how many freebies are around. I agree £3 reduction would be no good adult prices should be cut to £20 to £25 for most matches, depending on seat grading no tickets for under 5's, 5 to 12's £5 12 to £18 £10 and other concessions £15, no other discounts should apply. Premium prices should apply to the Forest match and maybe £2 extra for West Ham,Leeds and Leicester. This I am sure would generate extra income if advertised properly the current system does not work and is not generating money from the matchday adults the only ones paying regularly at the moment are the ones taking children with them for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianm Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Can you back this up with figures? Yes look at the last annual accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Not you you fool, SSB! but if the cap fits. of course sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 No its not a guess Forest had 7.124m in gate receipts 09/10 we had 6.319m, in the last published annual accounts, so their smaller gates produce more money. In that season we produced £10 per atendee after VAT, which shows how many freebies are around. I agree £3 reduction would be no good adult prices should be cut to £20 to £25 for most matches, depending on seat grading no tickets for under 5's, 5 to 12's £5 12 to £18 £10 and other concessions £15, no other discounts should apply. Premium prices should apply to the Forest match and maybe £2 extra for West Ham,Leeds and Leicester. This I am sure would generate extra income if advertised properly the current system does not work and is not generating money from the matchday adults the only ones paying regularly at the moment are the ones taking children with them for free. Fair enough on the Forest front. Ubder your system and Adult with a child pays £25 - 35 under the current system an adult and child pays £25 to £36, which one will bring in more revenue. The only way the reduction will increase revenue is if it increases demand in other areas by more than the 20% you have reduced them by. I don't think it would in the away end, and would £5 be enough to bring in 20% more home fans. Anyway if reducing prices is a sure fire way of increasing revenue why did PG raise prices when he became chairman and needed to increase income? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianm Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Fair enough on the Forest front. Ubder your system and Adult with a child pays £25 - 35 under the current system an adult and child pays £25 to £36, which one will bring in more revenue. The only way the reduction will increase revenue is if it increases demand in other areas by more than the 20% you have reduced them by. I don't think it would in the away end, and would £5 be enough to bring in 20% more home fans. Anyway if reducing prices is a sure fire way of increasing revenue why did PG raise prices when he became chairman and needed to increase income? Under that system Glick's but mine is fairer to everyone. The current system is not working I'll give you an example I did not have a ST last year went match to match with my lad. Leeds game didn't know whether I could go right into afternoon, lad was playing so couldn't go. Rang ticket office at 4, cheapest ticket £34, so I politely said no. People will pay high prices for Forest so keep it for them but for the rest of the games we are not selling many tickets and those we do are mainly free or discounted, good if you can get them but not much use financially to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I admit that high prices will put some off, but the question you and I can't answer is will lowering prices by 20%increase demand by 20%. That reduction would have to be applied on home and away fans by law, woukd it increase away numbers much?,and season ticket sales as well ( it would be unfair to reduce walk ups and not season tickets). Would enough extra demand be generated to increase income. At the end of the day if reducing ticket prices increased revenue every club in the country would be doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianm Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I admit that high prices will put some off, but the question you and I can't answer is will lowering prices by 20%increase demand by 20%. That reduction would have to be applied on home and away fans by law, woukd it increase away numbers much?,and season ticket sales as well ( it would be unfair to reduce walk ups and not season tickets). Would enough extra demand be generated to increase income. At the end of the day if reducing ticket prices increased revenue every club in the country would be doing it. I agree on the away fans so for the Leeds, Leicester and West Ham I would now up the prices by £5 not £2, as they could take 4,000 even at Glicks premium prices. I think the extra demand would increase revenue at the moment 23,500 gate 18,500 ST holders 1,000 away fans 4,000 per match extra at current income 4,000*£10 40,000 home revenue per match. If with my system we get more adults and no freebies and we get the average up to £15 per head, which we were getting when we first moved to PP and we get an extra 1000 in then that is £75,000 per match. Also the ST holders should not get too uptight my ST was £415 in the west stand at the moment if you went to every game average £30*23 690 that is 9 free games with my system it would be around 4 free games, which is about what it always used to be and fair. I believe that if the team did well with my system you could put a lot more than 1000 on the gate, probably 5,000 with no need for free or heavily discounted tickets and is it not fair at the moment for ST holders that so many get in for little or nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I agree on the away fans so for the Leeds, Leicester and West Ham I would now up the prices by £5 not £2, as they could take 4,000 even at Glicks premium prices. I think the extra demand would increase revenue at the moment 23,500 gate 18,500 ST holders 1,000 away fans 4,000 per match extra at current income 4,000*£10 40,000 home revenue per match. If with my system we get more adults and no freebies and we get the average up to £15 per head, which we were getting when we first moved to PP and we get an extra 1000 in then that is £75,000 per match. Also the ST holders should not get too uptight my ST was £415 in the west stand at the moment if you went to every game average £30*23 690 that is 9 free games with my system it would be around 4 free games, which is about what it always used to be and fair. I believe that if the team did well with my system you could put a lot more than 1000 on the gate, probably 5,000 with no need for free or heavily discounted tickets and is it not fair at the moment for ST holders that so many get in for little or nothing. You still need to be certain of matching the reduction in price to increase in demand. Your reductions are a minumum 20%, you need to match that with increased demand. It's no guarantee. Also 4 free games a season isn't necessarily going to keep people renewing, or attract new season ticket holder to replace those that leave. Some season ticket holds can't attend every match, if there's a chance you would miss 4 would you bother? West stand season tickets are now £560 for top category seats for new ST members, under your system only £15 cheaper than going every match. Hardly an incentive to become a season ticket holder. If the team performs and we are sitting near the playoffs around the end of October gates will increase and revenue wil increase regardless of pricing system. Again I say if price cuts increased revenue why isnt every club doing it? Maybe it's because they have experts analysing the effect of price on demand and they find it doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Yes look at the last annual accounts. Have done. £15million loss in 2010, reduced to a loss of £2million in 2011. Income was pretty static, costs reduced drastically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 No its not a guess Forest had 7.124m in gate receipts 09/10 we had 6.319m, in the last published annual accounts, so their smaller gates produce more money. In that season we produced £10 per atendee after VAT, which shows how many freebies are around. I agree £3 reduction would be no good adult prices should be cut to £20 to £25 for most matches, depending on seat grading no tickets for under 5's, 5 to 12's £5 12 to £18 £10 and other concessions £15, no other discounts should apply. Premium prices should apply to the Forest match and maybe £2 extra for West Ham,Leeds and Leicester. This I am sure would generate extra income if advertised properly the current system does not work and is not generating money from the matchday adults the only ones paying regularly at the moment are the ones taking children with them for free. Afraid that is a guess on gate receipts. Forest state 6.319 football income, how do you know this is gate receipts? A lot of our matchday income could be from the commercial side ie tickets from phone contracts, executive boxes etc hence why our overall income (excluding tv) is still £5million higher than Forests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Have done. £15million loss in 2010, reduced to a loss of £2million in 2011. Income was pretty static, costs reduced drastically. Is that the dates the accounts were published? IE your comparing account up to 2009 (published 2010) and accounts up to 2010 (published 2011) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 What ate the revenues like when compared to the Prem season? Obviously strip out the Tv money and parachute money. If revenue has been maintained from other sources then Glick has done a good job at bringing in revenue as I would expect revenues to fall on relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 What ate the revenues like when compared to the Prem season? Obviously strip out the Tv money and parachute money. If revenue has been maintained from other sources then Glick has done a good job at bringing in revenue as I would expect revenues to fall on relegation. Adminstration costs have doubled. I can tell you that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 As for a price cut raising gate depends on the elasticity of demand for tickets. For example a 10% reduction in ticket prices doesn't increase income unless it results in an increase of full paying customers by at least 10%. I doubt that £3 would generate any significant extra demand. To be accurate, if you reduce your ASP by 10% you actually need an 11.11% increase just to break even. It works out like this: - Price red. ......... Req. Gate Inc. - 5% ................ +5.26% -10% ............... +11.11% -15% ............... +17.65% -20% ............... +25.00% -25% ............... +33.33% Just FYI. Martyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Afraid that is a guess on gate receipts. Forest state 6.319 football income, how do you know this is gate receipts? A lot of our matchday income could be from the commercial side ie tickets from phone contracts, executive boxes etc hence why our overall income (excluding tv) is still £5million higher than Forests You have to factor in the Playoff match and cup matches Forest had at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.