Darbyram Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Can everyone on here go too this page and click on the like button, and then post it on the own facebook page or twitter, or by any other means....please http://www.facebook.com/pages/Thameslink-Protest/118345774919703 I think everyone knows what its all about, but it ain't just about us that live in derby, its the midlands, the whole manufacturing industry in the uk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I would but I would need solid proof that Bombardier offered to do the same job for the same money. The way I see it the guys at the top of bombardier banked on this contract and then put the price up so high it even got their highly favourable offer rejected. I'm sorry but my gripe regarding this is the greed with Bombardiers management, and I will not blindly follow or back them in anyway unless they make the contracts public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbyram Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Thats what we are all waiting for..the facts and figures... but if the bombardier figures were too high. then why did the government say.."hang on your figures are too high, but if you can get you figures a little lower"..then were in business. but non the less this is local,regional,national...none the less, I know who's side I am fighting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Thats what we are all waiting for..the facts and figures... but if the bombardier figures were too high. then why did the government say.."hang on your figures are too high, but if you can get you figures a little lower"..then were in business. but non the less this is local,regional,national...none the less, I know who's side I am fighting for. Again, I would be surprised if they didn't as the obvious choice would of been Bombardier and everyone would of been happy with that which makes the decision all the more odd, I just think it's down to nothing but greed and it's come back to haunt them. I feel sorry for the people who could be out of work because of it, no fault of their own but just clowns running the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbyram Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Again, I would be surprised if they didn't as the obvious choice would of been Bombardier and everyone would of been happy with that which makes the decision all the more odd, I just think it's down to nothing but greed and it's come back to haunt them. I feel sorry for the people who could be out of work because of it, no fault of their own but just clowns running the show. "Odd" as you call it is the thing that is baffeling all bombardiers employees, and tbh you are prob right in what you say. but, in our eyes it still feels like the government us kicking us in the teeth non the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hucknall Ram Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I know very little here but why is the government kicking us in the teeth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 because cameron and dick clegg are in government, when someone is trying to promote industry you don't give a billion pound contract to someone else. Even if bombardier was a little higher (possibly because of the minimum wage cap which many don't have) they should have put the money in because the money in the wages suppliers etc will flow back through the economy. Those workers would be able to spend their pay packets but now what do they do? by the way your group has my support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 because cameron and dick clegg are in government, when someone is trying to promote industry you don't give a billion pound contract to someone else. Even if bombardier was a little higher (possibly because of the minimum wage cap which many don't have) they should have put the money in because the money in the wages suppliers etc will flow back through the economy. Those workers would be able to spend their pay packets but now what do they do? by the way your group has my support I doubt it was a little higher, I would guess at a billion between the two contracts minimum for it to go to siemens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 If the Bombardier proposal cost more and was less quality then who cares really, if you prefer the government waste money then so be it. Imagine if the trains were inadequate would you still get on their backs then? Anything to justify your anti Tory prejudice YR. Even though the committee that made the decision were devised by the Labour party. As for the wages of a few people spending some cash boosting the economy, being that it is government funded anyway it isn't a huge bonus to our economy. Few thousand jobs is a drop in the ocean and the gain of jobs elsewhere in the country from the Siemens contract counters it on the grand scale of things. The real economic boosts come from exports, not necessarily manufacturing but innovation and the top line engineering talent the UK now specialises in. It's a shame for Bombardier but people find it easier to point the finger at the government, I'm sure we'll know the details soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Forgetting the particular merits of this case for a moment it may well be worth supporting the Bombardier cause out of pure selfishness. The governments of the last 30 years or so have consistently favoured big corporations over the national interest. The only people who will stick up for workers in Derby are local people. No one else will help. Capitalism is selfish. Big business is selfish. That's the way of the world and the system we live under. So what's so wrong with ordinary people being selfish and putting as much pressure on the government as possible in order to preserve jobs in the Derby area. Why give up without a fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 If the Bombardier proposal cost more and was less quality then who cares really, if you prefer the government waste money then so be it. Imagine if the trains were inadequate would you still get on their backs then? Anything to justify your anti Tory prejudice YR. Even though the committee that made the decision were devised by the Labour party. As for the wages of a few people spending some cash boosting the economy, being that it is government funded anyway it isn't a huge bonus to our economy. Few thousand jobs is a drop in the ocean and the gain of jobs elsewhere in the country from the Siemens contract counters it on the grand scale of things. The real economic boosts come from exports, not necessarily manufacturing but innovation and the top line engineering talent the UK now specialises in. It's a shame for Bombardier but people find it easier to point the finger at the government, I'm sure we'll know the details soon. Those other jobs are a knock on effect from the contract i.e, maintenance, cleaning, operating the trains etc, it'd be the same whoever builds the trains. BTW, I agree with you that Labour were just as guilty as the Tories at giving our jobs away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 We're a bunch of greedy little importers in this country, and that's all we do. We don't make stuff anymore, we sell invisible financial services (you can thank Mrs Thatcher for that). Having said that, it's not the government's role to pick British corporations in tenders no matter what the cost. It seems pretty clear that to opt with Bombardier would be madness, and it's certainly not the government's fault that Bombardier are asking for a ridiculous price. It's when governments go for the more expensive options just because they're British that this economy will get left behind, and it will hurt us more in the long run. Trade is now so important in this globalised economy; our talks with China yesterday may turn out to be far more important than you might think. What the government really needs to do is get back on side with the Unions, subsidise, invest and educate in industry if we want to be the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 We're a bunch of greedy little importers in this country, and that's all we do. We don't make stuff anymore, we sell invisible financial services (you can thank Mrs Thatcher for that). Having said that, it's not the government's role to pick British corporations in tenders no matter what the cost. It seems pretty clear that to opt with Bombardier would be madness, and it's certainly not the government's fault that Bombardier are asking for a ridiculous price. It's when governments go for the more expensive options just because they're British that this economy will get left behind, and it will hurt us more in the long run. Trade is now so important in this globalised economy; our talks with China yesterday may turn out to be far more important than you might think. What the government really needs to do is get back on side with the Unions, subsidise, invest and educate in industry if we want to be the best. Bombardier are not British, Canadian owned i think? The jobs however, are British. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Bombardier are not British, Canadian owned i think? The jobs however, are British. British for the sake of the argument, like Aston Martin or Derby County, which are both in foreign owenership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralRam Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 In all honesty though.... Surely the gorvernment would know how much of a benefit it would have been to the economy, they ain't born off apple trees. The deal with Siemens must have been so good that it would be helping the economy more then the Bombardier deal. Bombardier, needs to be blamed for not getting the contract - not the government imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 British for the sake of the argument, like Aston Martin or Derby County, which are both in foreign owenership. You stated that its not the governments job to give contracts to british corporations. Why not? the Germans and French do it. Its unpopular in some countries to create unemployment. Here its seen as a market force, something that happens because of stock markets and financial "necessities". Well, its not, its purely a political decision based on free market ideology at any cost. There's nothing to stop any British government making it clear that it will put the interests of its own people in front of International financial interests. Any way, full employment would pay for itself in better health, less crime and less benefits in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 When i went to the WC, the trains i went on, you shat on a toilet with a hole in the floor, straight on to the lines. That's German trains for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 When i went to the WC, the trains i went on, you shat on a toilet with a hole in the floor, straight on to the lines. That's German trains for ya. So thats why the siemens bid was cheaper then....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 because cameron and dick clegg are in government, when someone is trying to promote industry you don't give a billion pound contract to someone else. Even if bombardier was a little higher (possibly because of the minimum wage cap which many don't have) they should have put the money in because the money in the wages suppliers etc will flow back through the economy. Those workers would be able to spend their pay packets but now what do they do? by the way your group has my support But didn't Gordon Brown do the same, giving a contract to Hitachi in 2009 in preference to Bombardier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 ...and the windows could be opened enough to get your whole body out.....my mate put his legs through and got sucked out .We had to pull him back in. Don't know if that's all German trains or they were using old ones for the extra numbers during the WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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